kosmo886

I am struggling to figure out the weight for the full wheelset on the bike. Components are listed below. Is it fair to compare wheelset weight based on hub, rim, spoke, with no tire? Trying to figure out how much weight I can drop on the bike by swapping this configuration with a new wheelset with some road tires. Any thoughts on this specifically along with recommendations and rough prices would be really helpful.

What are other simple and not crazy expensive ways to drop some weight?

Thanks!

Rear Hub

• Formula RXC-400

Rims

• WTB ST i23 TCS, 28h, tubeless ready

Spokes

• Stainless Steel, 14g (Ai Offset Dish - rear)

Tire Size

• 37

Tires

• WTB Riddler TCS Light, 700 x 37c, tubeless ready

Wheel Size

• 700c

mstateglfr 

Thats a bulleted list of your current stock wheelset?
Just remove the tires, tape, disc, and thruaxle. Weigh the wheels.

Then compare those weights to whatever you want online.
Wheel weights will be rim plus hub plus nipples and spokes.

A place to drop weight for sure is butted spokes. They are lighter and 'stronger' than plain gauge spokes.
The rim is another place as that rim is probably 100-150g heavier than some common alternatives. 605g for the stock rim vs 455g for h plus son hydra rim, for example.

A new wheelset is probably best, vs replacing parts of the stock wheelset.

Koyote

What's your price limit for new wheels? And are they going to be used exclusively with skinny tires on pavement, or on other surfaces?

msu2001la

You can get something in the 1500g range from Hunt for around $600. You could build a custom set on Prowheelbuilder.com for similar price/weight. You can definitely get 1500g Chinese carbon wheels for less than $500.

I have no idea how much your stock wheelset weighs, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was north of 1800g. I'll leave it up to you if spending $600 to drop 300g is worth it or not, but lighter wheels do spin up faster and feel awesome. The carbon wheels might give you some aero advantages, and Hunt makes some aero claims on some of their alloy wheels.

msu2001la

Also worth noting that I'm pretty sure the carbon Topstone has Cannondale's "AI Offset Geometry", so any wheelset you buy will need to be re-dished to fit the offset geometry.

This is a job that most any LBS can do, and suppliers like Hunt or PWB might be able to do it for you as well, but be aware that a new wheelset won't fit out-of-the-box unless it's got this specific dish offset.

GrainBrain

Not being a naysayer but if it was me I'd just keep the stock wheelset with a different set of road tires and spend that $600 on a set of 650b wheels and tires. Better bang for buck imo. If you're thinking of going lightweight ya shoulda spent the extra $1,000 and gone for the RX version, would've gotten you a ton of lightweight upgrade components in the form of carbon post, bars, wheelset plus ultegra.

kosmo886

Probably keeping it around 500-600 if I can. Looking to use the new wheels exclusively for road tires so I can swap on and off. Not super concerned with overall weight. I could drop 2lbs on the bike by going with the RX version, but that’s jumping from $2750 to $4200. For my purposes, I don’t think Ultegra is a huge deal and the nearly $1500 difference allows for a lot of upgrades/second set of wheels which will be very useful for me.

Would others agree that a set of road tires will make a reasonable difference compared to stock for road riding? Pretty much makes this bike the Synapse at this point...

kosmo886

Any idea what the weight differences are for each component between the 105 and RX Topstone? Best I can figure these are the difference components. Price difference is close to $1500. Figuring since I’ve read the weight difference between Ultegra and 105 component is around half a pound and the bike weights are roughly 2.5 pounds different, there is another 2lbs in these combined. Wondering if I can spend less than the $1500 and make a dent in the weight while getting a second wheel set for straight road riding as well. Thoughts? Thanks!

Wheel set
Bottom bracket
chain
crank
saddle
seat post
stem
ultegra vs. 105

Koyote

Just buy the better bike. It’ll be easier, and Ultegra has some additional advantages (beyond weight) compared to 105.

kosmo886

So I took your advice and also went in a slightly different direction. I was finally able to get on the Topstone and Revolt Advanced 2 side by side. Amazingly, the difference was night and day. Not only was the geometry a bit better for me on the Giant, but it was much quicker. The kingpin suspension was nice, but also felt out of whack with no suspension on the front. At the end of the day I went with the Giant and upgraded to the Revolt Advanced 0. For the extra 1k looked like a ton of value. Carbon wheels that retail for 1500 alone, Ultegra vs. 105, carbon crank, seat post etc. Probably shaves a few pounds and adds quite a bit of performance. Pick it up later this week.

msu2001la

Looking at the specs on the Giant Revolt Advanced 0, they come with 40mm Maxxis Velocita, which looks like a high-volume road tire. A narrower road tire (like a 28mm) might be a tad faster, but I wouldn't think the difference is dramatic.

For anyone reading this thread and comparing the Carbon Topstone 105 tires, they are WTB Riddler, which look to have a more aggressive off-road tread. In that case I'd think switching to road tires might make a bigger difference.

I notice a pretty big difference on pavement when switching between 33mm CX knobbies and 28mm road tires on my CX bike. Most of these gravel tires are somewhere in-between.

Koyote

That Revolt Advanced 0 has a fantastic parts spec for the price...If you also prefer the geometry, that's a real win. And if I recall the price, you might still be able to justify that second wheelset.

kosmo886

I suppose anything can be justified! Just wondering how big the difference will be with what would end up being a heavier wheel given I am not spending 1k+ on a second wheelset but with a road tire, versus the stock carbon wheelset and tires. Hmm...

kosmo886

Interesting point. I hadn’t noticed that this tire is described as a “smooth riding, high volume slick tire for mixed surfaces” Any idea the rolling difference for a 40mm slick versus 28? My guess is not a ton, but love to know if someone has tried.

Koyote

Personally, I'd just use the stock wheels with a do-everything tire. But if you wanted a second wheelset, make it alloy with high spoke count, mount up some gnarly wide tires for rough riding. Then use the stock cf wheels with some slimmer (maybe 32mm) road tires for speedy pavement riding.

kosmo886

Per the prior post, it actually looks like the stock tire is fairly versatile. I was and am a little concerned about road performance given it’s 40mm wide, but I know skinny isn’t necessarily better. Given it’s a slick versus knobby it could be a good performer. Or could always swap to a 34 or 35 slick or something that can be very good everywhere except on real off-road stuff I guess.

Koyote

You could probably work out a tire switch with the shop, if you wanted something different. Might cost you a little money, but perhaps they would work something out.

chas58

Its a ton. I've posted here a lot.
Putzing around solo, it doesn't make much difference
Commuting, its about 10%, or 1-2mph.

Aggressive club rides, its a ton. The difference from being at the front of the pack to being dropped. Lowers my heart rate about 5bpm at the limit. We are probably talking 30-40 watts at race like speeds, but then again I cant increase my Threshold Power by 30 watts so easily.

I'm specifically referring to the Conti GP5000. Before that I was using the 4-season - and there wasn't much of a difference between them and a good gravel tire. But the gp5000 has less than 1/2 the rolling resistance of my other tires. Drafting at 30mph, rolling resistance is a pretty big deal.

kosmo886

Any thoughts on a tire that would be great on the road and still capable of moderate off road? That is assuming such a thing exists?

chas58

I have what the German's say is the fastest (and best all around) gravel tire (Conti Terra Speed), and I can't say I can tell much difference between it, or my Ramblers, or my G-One's. The GP5000 is different, and I use it 32mm tubless for our summer/fall gravel which tends to be dry hard packed (and often better than our asphalt). If I"m not sprinting, racing, KOM'ing, it doesn't make a huge difference. I did get a ton of PRs on Strava last year when I switched to the GP5000.

BluFalconActual

Here’s the problem, a gravel bike is awesome because it can do 90 percent of what a road bike can plus a lot that it cant, but they are still not as fast as a dedicated road race bike on the road. Now, if you dont care about that last 10 percent and don’t see yourself doing the roadie thing of really fast group rides or going for local KOMs, then a gravel bike with a road set of wheels or even a 35mm slick tire will be just fine. If you do care about those things, then you are going to want more than one bike.
I know this because I went through the same problem. I was all about going fast on the road but then bought a gravel bike. The gravel bike did so well at 90 percent of what I did on my road bike that I ended up selling the road bike. After like a month, I realized that I still REALLY liked going on fast rides with my friends and the gravel bike was just a hinderance. It made me like it a whole lot less. I finally broke down and bought a road bike again and made the gravel bike a dedicated gravel rig. Unsurprisingly, I love the gravel bike a whole lot more again because I use it in the way that it was engineered to be ridden. Flying down gravel roads or just putting around mixed terrain. When I want to go fast on group rides or snag a KOM, my road bike is my go to.
We all try to beat the system but in the end, N+1 is a thing.

kosmo886

what size are the terra speeds? Just worried my 40mm are a shade too large for keeping up with a pack on the roads...

do you find the 32mm gp5000s wide enough for light gravel? Thought of that as more of a road only width. Was wondering if there is anything in the 34-35 range that is a good compromise.

kosmo886

In your view, what is preventing a gravel bike with road tires from the final 10% comparison with a road bike? Most of the gravel bikes are something close to an endurance road bike from +/-. Assuming equal specs...I suppose you could have a tiny amount of extra weight on a gravel bike, but with equal components and wheels/tires, I am not sure where the difference comes from. Just interested in your view.

Koyote

Weight (heavier), aerodynamics (more tire clearance = more drag), and gravel bike gearing tends to differ from road bike gearing.

GrainBrain

Have you stated your location or maybe post some pictures of the gravel your thinking of riding? What's the aggregate size? Around here it's about 1" and under with about 35% less then 3/8". So when they lay new stuff, it's kinda tough with my 37mm tires. Usually it tames down after a week and you could ride 32 ok - often, after some light soaking rains and not a lot of heavy use that could cause washboard it becomes very smooth and I've ridden 25mm GP4ks on it.

A rough surface is annoying, but you could have problems with larger aggregate either slashing sidewalls or just throwing you around.