Bicycle License
06-30-05, 08:14 PM
#52
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It's the drivers who need the education. They're killing pedestrians, bicyclists and each other and driving with a wreckless disregard to life and property. Not only that, they mix up driving and their vehicles with certain male anatomy properties so they can't think logically while driving. Further, they're on the phone and having parties while behind the wheel, basically doing everything but the boring task of operating the vehicle.
We don't need more red tape. Just put more instruction into driver's training and more questions on the DMV test on bicycle operation and you'll get everybody, since almost everybody who rides a bike also has a driver's license. If you want more particular education, give out a booklet with every bike sold.
Oh, and about the motorcycle license: when I took the test most of the questions were about stuff like how many decibles of noise can the bike make, or what modifications to the exhaust are not allowed. What the heck did I care about that? Plus it was two-sided--twice as many questions. Meanwhile, the driver's test was on one side and all the questions were about drunk driving.
We don't need more red tape. Just put more instruction into driver's training and more questions on the DMV test on bicycle operation and you'll get everybody, since almost everybody who rides a bike also has a driver's license. If you want more particular education, give out a booklet with every bike sold.
Oh, and about the motorcycle license: when I took the test most of the questions were about stuff like how many decibles of noise can the bike make, or what modifications to the exhaust are not allowed. What the heck did I care about that? Plus it was two-sided--twice as many questions. Meanwhile, the driver's test was on one side and all the questions were about drunk driving.
06-30-05, 09:09 PM
#53
You need a new bike
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Originally Posted by cruentus
Every person in the USA, who is in a public place, is required to show ID when demanded by law enforcement. It doesn't matter if that person is walking, or riding a bicycle. The Supreme Court has already ruled that this requirement is not a violation of the Constitution. Since licensing scheme's are as much about establishing identity, as they are a demonstration of vehicle operation skills, I think that licensing of bike riders is a moot point.
The police do not have the right to do something like ask random people for their identiy, set up a checkpoint and stop all pedestrians to collect their identity, and so on. It's similar to a traffic stop. The police cannot stop and detain you randomly. They must have some probable cause (failure to signal a lane change is sufficient) that you may have commited a crime.
06-30-05, 09:23 PM
#54
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I agree with more bicycle questions on drivers tests. That will help with the motorist side of the equation.
For cyclist education, I agree with Genec about better education programs in schools. One of my personal goals is to eventually become a bike safety instructor. I haven't made much progress on it yet, but I'm keeping it in mind. If you agree that this is necessary, I challenge you to set the same goal. "Be the change you want to see in the world."
For cyclist education, I agree with Genec about better education programs in schools. One of my personal goals is to eventually become a bike safety instructor. I haven't made much progress on it yet, but I'm keeping it in mind. If you agree that this is necessary, I challenge you to set the same goal. "Be the change you want to see in the world."
06-30-05, 11:16 PM
#55
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Originally Posted by Rowan
Licensing of cyclists has been proven to be impractical. The cost is greater in collecting the fee and issuing the paperwork than it is worth.
/
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"The bicycle is the perfect transducer to match man's metabolic energy to the impedance of locomotion. Equipped with this tool, man outstrips the efficiency of not only all machines but all other animals as well." Ivan Illich ('Energy and Equity')1974
"The bicycle is the perfect transducer to match man's metabolic energy to the impedance of locomotion. Equipped with this tool, man outstrips the efficiency of not only all machines but all other animals as well." Ivan Illich ('Energy and Equity')1974
07-01-05, 12:34 AM
#56
Senior Member
Try Switzerland. An immigrant from that country was very enthusiastic about it. She showed me the registration plate on the chainstay of her bike. She was actively promoting it to advocates. I didn't go into details as to the Swiss motivation for it.
07-01-05, 01:06 AM
#57
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That "license" on your bike in California is a registration, not a license. And I really need to do two of those tomorrow.
07-01-05, 03:55 AM
#58
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Originally Posted by cruentus
Every person in the USA, who is in a public place, is required to show ID when demanded by law enforcement. It doesn't matter if that person is walking, or riding a bicycle. The Supreme Court has already ruled that this requirement is not a violation of the Constitution. Since licensing scheme's are as much about establishing identity, as they are a demonstration of vehicle operation skills, I think that licensing of bike riders is a moot point.
On the other hand, I believe that the states will eventually get around to requiring bicycle registration -- bicycles being operating in public places will be required to display a tamper-proof registration tag.
It is only a matter of time before a terrorist discovers that he can pack an amazing amount of HE in the down tube of a mountain bike. Such an explosive laden bike, left chained to a sign post on busy urban street, will kill dozens of people. The exploding bicycle was a favorite trick of the Bader-Meinhof German Red Army Faction terrorist group back in the 1970's. In one case they managed to blow up an armored limousine, killing the occupants, with an exploding bicycle.
On the other hand, I believe that the states will eventually get around to requiring bicycle registration -- bicycles being operating in public places will be required to display a tamper-proof registration tag.
It is only a matter of time before a terrorist discovers that he can pack an amazing amount of HE in the down tube of a mountain bike. Such an explosive laden bike, left chained to a sign post on busy urban street, will kill dozens of people. The exploding bicycle was a favorite trick of the Bader-Meinhof German Red Army Faction terrorist group back in the 1970's. In one case they managed to blow up an armored limousine, killing the occupants, with an exploding bicycle.
Originally Posted by cruentus
Perhaps I didn't explain myself properly. It's not that I'm advocating bike registration, I believe that it is inevitable.
It's a lot easier for a terrorist to leave a wired bike in a crowed place unattended, then it is to find some rube willing to pack his BVD's full of Semtex.
It's a lot easier for a terrorist to leave a wired bike in a crowed place unattended, then it is to find some rube willing to pack his BVD's full of Semtex.
It sounds like the terrorists you speak of have already 'won' if you are this paranoid.
Bike registration will not keep someone who wants to do bad stuff to another person
from doing that. Register bikes, than what...? Register lap top bags ? See through
grocery bags ? Ban book bags for school kids ?
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07-01-05, 04:09 AM
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We cannot legislate stupidity out of existence. Witness many of the drivers of motor vehicles on the roads today...
However, we CAN legislate another expensive, ponderous, incomprehensible government bureaucracy into existence, which is what such a scheme would become.
Imagine the new cabinet post; Secretary of Bicycle Safety...
However, we CAN legislate another expensive, ponderous, incomprehensible government bureaucracy into existence, which is what such a scheme would become.
Imagine the new cabinet post; Secretary of Bicycle Safety...
07-01-05, 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted by webist
Not sure whether we are talking only about an operator's license or an actual registration (license plate) for bicycles. The issues, it seems would differ between the two.
So the OP would have leaned toward licensing ("endorsing") the driver and not the bike.
d.tipton
07-01-05, 05:48 AM
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Definitely NO! When I was a kid in W.Va.(many years ago), they tried to make everyone get a bike license. None of the kids I knew got a license. Too much government in my life already, next there would be a helmet law (I always wear one, but am against a law), then a license for skates, skateboards, and on and on. No thanks.
07-01-05, 02:28 PM
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The only way I would be for it is if the money collected was actually used for bike friendly projects, like bike paths, and educating kids about safe riding. I doubt with budgets the way they are these days that this would happen, though.
Originally Posted by DogBoy
In the traffic violation thread CrimsonEclipse said:
Is this a bad idea? I kind of like having a bicycle endorsement to your drivers license. Just make it a written test about the laws as they pertain to bikes. Make it cost like $7 or so initially or whatever it costs to make the test. For kids <16, allow a special bike license/ state ID card that lets them ride without a licensed parent. Have the test be the same.
I know that there are all sorts of problems with the specifics I gave above, but what do you think about the fundamental idea of having a license to ride your bike?
Is this a bad idea? I kind of like having a bicycle endorsement to your drivers license. Just make it a written test about the laws as they pertain to bikes. Make it cost like $7 or so initially or whatever it costs to make the test. For kids <16, allow a special bike license/ state ID card that lets them ride without a licensed parent. Have the test be the same.
I know that there are all sorts of problems with the specifics I gave above, but what do you think about the fundamental idea of having a license to ride your bike?
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Pain is temporary. It may last a minute, or an hour, or a day, or a year, but eventually it will subside and something else will take its place. If I quit, however, it lasts forever.
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