Why no major German bikes?
#26
Palmer
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 8,627
Bikes: Mike Melton custom, Alex Moulton AM, Dahon Curl
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1669 Post(s)
Liked 1,823 Times
in
1,061 Posts
#27
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Mich
Posts: 7,391
Bikes: RSO E-tire dropper fixie brifter
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 2,974 Times
in
1,919 Posts
cant compete with Chinas output.
__________________
-Oh Hey!
-Oh Hey!
#28
Habitual User
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 7,990
Bikes: 2023 Niner RLT 9 RDO, 2018 Trek Procaliber 9.9 RSL, 2018 Storck Fascenario.3 Platinum, 2003 Time VX Special Pro, 2001 Colnago VIP, 1999 Trek 9900 singlespeed, 1977 Nishiki ONP
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4947 Post(s)
Liked 8,091 Times
in
3,829 Posts
#29
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7,884
Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6969 Post(s)
Liked 10,966 Times
in
4,691 Posts
#30
Palmer
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 8,627
Bikes: Mike Melton custom, Alex Moulton AM, Dahon Curl
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1669 Post(s)
Liked 1,823 Times
in
1,061 Posts
While I was impressed with Giant Bicycle's robotic layup of CAD-designed carbon fiber frames, bicycle manufacture is at its heart 1890s technology. Even China is getting too advanced for bicycle production (they've gone to the Moon and Mars, after all.) Large scale bicycle manufacture is moving to Vietnam, Cambodia, Indonesia, Malaysia, & etc.
#31
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Mich
Posts: 7,391
Bikes: RSO E-tire dropper fixie brifter
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 2,974 Times
in
1,919 Posts
While I was impressed with Giant Bicycle's robotic layup of CAD-designed carbon fiber frames, bicycle manufacture is at its heart 1890s technology. Even China is getting too advanced for bicycle production (they've gone to the Moon and Mars, after all.) Large scale bicycle manufacture is moving to Vietnam, Cambodia, Indonesia, Malaysia, & etc.
__________________
-Oh Hey!
-Oh Hey!
#32
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 490
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 252 Post(s)
Liked 67 Times
in
48 Posts
I recall that in one of the last few TDF races, there was some talk about German riders, if they are successful, it might lead to having their own country team with German sponsor(s), which I take it, they don't have and didn't so far. It all has to do with overall German population enthusiasm for the bike sport.
Sure, some stellar performance of German riders in European races, best on home turf in Germany might or would lead to some rise of bicycling sport there, but all the same, it is doubtful that sporting base of a country could rest on such successes that of necessity come and go, are fleeting. In Italy, France, even if their riders sometimes don't figure in front positions too often, or even for extended period, it doesn't affect the general public enthusiasm for the sport. They are taken by the suffering, the heroism, no matter if the riders are not wining, they have respect for them all. It is simply not like that in Germany.
Likes For vane171:
Likes For ClydeClydeson:
#34
I’m a little Surly
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Near the district
Posts: 2,422
Bikes: Two Cross Checks, a Karate Monkey, a Disc Trucker, and a VO Randonneur
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 699 Post(s)
Liked 1,294 Times
in
647 Posts
It seems like most of the major European countries have some sort of bicycling tradition: France, Italy, England, Spain, the Netherlands. It's strange to me that there's no bike maker or bike style associated with Germany, especially
since virtually any other sort of high end manufacturing would include at least one German brand name. Am I simply missing something or is there a reason? Of course, Bosch and Brose make a large percentage of e-bike motors, but even
then they don't brand their own bikes.
since virtually any other sort of high end manufacturing would include at least one German brand name. Am I simply missing something or is there a reason? Of course, Bosch and Brose make a large percentage of e-bike motors, but even
then they don't brand their own bikes.
Likes For Germany_chris:
#35
Thread Killer
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 12,448
Bikes: 15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, 76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, 17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, 12 Breezer Venturi, 09 Dahon Mariner, 12 Mercier Nano, 95 DeKerf Team SL, 19 Tern Rally, 21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, 19 T-Lab X3, 91 Serotta CII, 23 3T Strada
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3146 Post(s)
Liked 1,711 Times
in
1,033 Posts
Viola Brand, the reigning EU singles champ, has been blowing up on social media the past couple of years, too, and is legit celebrity enough to have been on the Ellen show!
#36
Habitual User
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 7,990
Bikes: 2023 Niner RLT 9 RDO, 2018 Trek Procaliber 9.9 RSL, 2018 Storck Fascenario.3 Platinum, 2003 Time VX Special Pro, 2001 Colnago VIP, 1999 Trek 9900 singlespeed, 1977 Nishiki ONP
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4947 Post(s)
Liked 8,091 Times
in
3,829 Posts
There are currently 12 pro cycling teams based in Germany (and have been many others over many years), including current World Tour teams Bora-Hansgrohe and Team DSM. There are currently 34 German riders on World Tour teams, including notable names like Andre Greipel, Tony Martin, and John Degenkolb. Jan Ulrich won the Tour de France while riding for Telekom - German rider on a German team.
__________________
"Swedish fish. They're protein shaped." - livedarklions
"Swedish fish. They're protein shaped." - livedarklions
Likes For Eric F:
#38
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lebanon (Liberty Hill), CT
Posts: 8,473
Bikes: CAAD 12, MASI Gran Criterium S, Colnago World Cup CX & Guru steel
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1743 Post(s)
Liked 1,281 Times
in
740 Posts
Canyon, Focus, Storck, Cube .... pretty nice bikes IMO.
#39
Clark W. Griswold
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ,location, location
Posts: 13,523
Bikes: Foundry Chilkoot Ti W/Ultegra Di2, Salsa Timberjack Ti, Cinelli Mash Work RandoCross Fun Time Machine, 1x9 XT Parts Hybrid, Co-Motion Cascadia, Specialized Langster, Phil Wood Apple VeloXS Frame (w/DA 7400), R+M Supercharger2 Rohloff, Habanero Ti 26
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4357 Post(s)
Liked 3,994 Times
in
2,665 Posts
My newest bike which I ordered is mega German like super German. Riese and Müller with a Bosch motor(batteries and display...), Rohloff hub, Abus Locks, Supernova Lights, Ergon Grips, SKS fenders, Schwalbe Tires, Magura Brakes, Acros Headset, Ergotec Mirror and bars (though those are getting swapped to Koga Denham). I will also probably have a Topeak saddle bag on there. (Addendum: will still have the bag as they make great stuff but after looking it up for chaadster I am realizing not a German company which I had been told in the past by a few folks)
Germany has loads of cycle companies amongst stuff mentioned here and more stuff as well. Kettler, Rose Bikes, Bergamont, FIXIE Inc., Fahrradmanfaktur, Biria, Drössiger, Winora, Stevens, Rotwild, KHE Bikes, Diamant, Prophete, Ruff Cycles...
Plus a whole host of customer frame builders (taken from theframebuilders.com)
Germany makes a ton of great parts and bikes. They are no slouches in that department
Germany has loads of cycle companies amongst stuff mentioned here and more stuff as well. Kettler, Rose Bikes, Bergamont, FIXIE Inc., Fahrradmanfaktur, Biria, Drössiger, Winora, Stevens, Rotwild, KHE Bikes, Diamant, Prophete, Ruff Cycles...
Plus a whole host of customer frame builders (taken from theframebuilders.com)
- Big Forest Frameworks
- Cicli Bonanno
- Crema Cycles
- Falkenjagd Titan Bikes
- Fern Bicycles
- Marschall Framework
- Mawis Bikes
- Monk Bicycle
- ROAMER CYCLES
- Unique Cycles
Germany makes a ton of great parts and bikes. They are no slouches in that department
Last edited by veganbikes; 03-01-21 at 10:08 PM. Reason: made a mistake
Likes For veganbikes:
#40
Disco Infiltrator
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Folsom CA
Posts: 13,446
Bikes: Stormchaser, Paramount, Tilt, Samba tandem
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3126 Post(s)
Liked 2,105 Times
in
1,369 Posts
The story of the US bike industry prior to 1971 was department store bikes and Schwinn, and after that is production moving to the cheapest place as fast as possible, with a slight peppering of brands that started here and moved offshore too. Germany doesn’t really figure in here. I’m sure they have their own story, but it doesn’t get told here.
#41
Thread Killer
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 12,448
Bikes: 15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, 76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, 17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, 12 Breezer Venturi, 09 Dahon Mariner, 12 Mercier Nano, 95 DeKerf Team SL, 19 Tern Rally, 21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, 19 T-Lab X3, 91 Serotta CII, 23 3T Strada
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3146 Post(s)
Liked 1,711 Times
in
1,033 Posts
My newest bike which I ordered is mega German like super German. Riese and Müller with a Bosch motor(batteries and display...), Rohloff hub, Abus Locks, Supernova Lights, Ergon Grips, SKS fenders, Schwalbe Tires, Magura Brakes, Acros Headset, Ergotec Mirror and bars (though those are getting swapped to Koga Denham). I will also probably have a Topeak saddle bag on there.
Germany has loads of cycle companies amongst stuff mentioned here and more stuff as well. Kettler, Rose Bikes, Bergamont, FIXIE Inc., Fahrradmanfaktur, Biria, Drössiger, Winora, Stevens, Rotwild, KHE Bikes, Diamant, Prophete, Ruff Cycles...
Plus a whole host of customer frame builders (taken from theframebuilders.com)
Germany makes a ton of great parts and bikes. They are no slouches in that department
Germany has loads of cycle companies amongst stuff mentioned here and more stuff as well. Kettler, Rose Bikes, Bergamont, FIXIE Inc., Fahrradmanfaktur, Biria, Drössiger, Winora, Stevens, Rotwild, KHE Bikes, Diamant, Prophete, Ruff Cycles...
Plus a whole host of customer frame builders (taken from theframebuilders.com)
- Big Forest Frameworks
- Cicli Bonanno
- Crema Cycles
- Falkenjagd Titan Bikes
- Fern Bicycles
- Marschall Framework
- Mawis Bikes
- Monk Bicycle
- ROAMER CYCLES
- Unique Cycles
Germany makes a ton of great parts and bikes. They are no slouches in that department
Likes For chaadster:
#42
Clark W. Griswold
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ,location, location
Posts: 13,523
Bikes: Foundry Chilkoot Ti W/Ultegra Di2, Salsa Timberjack Ti, Cinelli Mash Work RandoCross Fun Time Machine, 1x9 XT Parts Hybrid, Co-Motion Cascadia, Specialized Langster, Phil Wood Apple VeloXS Frame (w/DA 7400), R+M Supercharger2 Rohloff, Habanero Ti 26
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4357 Post(s)
Liked 3,994 Times
in
2,665 Posts
#43
Full Member
#44
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Mich
Posts: 7,391
Bikes: RSO E-tire dropper fixie brifter
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 2,974 Times
in
1,919 Posts
isn't WAHOO German as well?
Wahoo & Topeak might be related if that is true...
Wahoo & Topeak might be related if that is true...
__________________
-Oh Hey!
-Oh Hey!
#45
Senior member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Oakville Ontario
Posts: 8,118
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 943 Post(s)
Liked 658 Times
in
371 Posts
My newest bike which I ordered is mega German like super German. Riese and Müller with a Bosch motor(batteries and display...), Rohloff hub, Abus Locks, Supernova Lights, Ergon Grips, SKS fenders, Schwalbe Tires, Magura Brakes, Acros Headset, Ergotec Mirror and bars (though those are getting swapped to Koga Denham). I will also probably have a Topeak saddle bag on there. (Addendum: will still have the bag as they make great stuff but after looking it up for chaadster I am realizing not a German company which I had been told in the past by a few folks)
Germany has loads of cycle companies amongst stuff mentioned here and more stuff as well. Kettler, Rose Bikes, Bergamont, FIXIE Inc., Fahrradmanfaktur, Biria, Drössiger, Winora, Stevens, Rotwild, KHE Bikes, Diamant, Prophete, Ruff Cycles...
Plus a whole host of customer frame builders (taken from theframebuilders.com)
Germany makes a ton of great parts and bikes. They are no slouches in that department
Germany has loads of cycle companies amongst stuff mentioned here and more stuff as well. Kettler, Rose Bikes, Bergamont, FIXIE Inc., Fahrradmanfaktur, Biria, Drössiger, Winora, Stevens, Rotwild, KHE Bikes, Diamant, Prophete, Ruff Cycles...
Plus a whole host of customer frame builders (taken from theframebuilders.com)
- Big Forest Frameworks
- Cicli Bonanno
- Crema Cycles
- Falkenjagd Titan Bikes
- Fern Bicycles
- Marschall Framework
- Mawis Bikes
- Monk Bicycle
- ROAMER CYCLES
- Unique Cycles
Germany makes a ton of great parts and bikes. They are no slouches in that department
The parts list included, a Rohloff hub, SON dynohub, Magura brakes, Busch and Muller lighting, and Schwalbe tires. Had to go North American for crank and rims (Race Face and Velocity) due to availability, but he would have preferred those to be German as well.
Oh yeah, almost forgot, Connex chain.
#46
Thread Killer
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 12,448
Bikes: 15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, 76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, 17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, 12 Breezer Venturi, 09 Dahon Mariner, 12 Mercier Nano, 95 DeKerf Team SL, 19 Tern Rally, 21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, 19 T-Lab X3, 91 Serotta CII, 23 3T Strada
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3146 Post(s)
Liked 1,711 Times
in
1,033 Posts
Ah, okay, but nonethless the point stands that Germany is no slouch in the bike department!
#48
Thread Killer
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 12,448
Bikes: 15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, 76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, 17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, 12 Breezer Venturi, 09 Dahon Mariner, 12 Mercier Nano, 95 DeKerf Team SL, 19 Tern Rally, 21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, 19 T-Lab X3, 91 Serotta CII, 23 3T Strada
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3146 Post(s)
Liked 1,711 Times
in
1,033 Posts
They're good in, um, Radball. That's got to count for something ...
#49
Palmer
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 8,627
Bikes: Mike Melton custom, Alex Moulton AM, Dahon Curl
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1669 Post(s)
Liked 1,823 Times
in
1,061 Posts
It seems like most of the major European countries have some sort of bicycling tradition: France, Italy, England, Spain, the Netherlands. It's strange to me that there's no bike maker or bike style associated with Germany, especially
since virtually any other sort of high-end manufacturing would include at least one German brand name. Am I simply missing something or is there a reason?
since virtually any other sort of high-end manufacturing would include at least one German brand name. Am I simply missing something or is there a reason?
#50
Thread Killer
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 12,448
Bikes: 15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, 76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, 17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, 12 Breezer Venturi, 09 Dahon Mariner, 12 Mercier Nano, 95 DeKerf Team SL, 19 Tern Rally, 21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, 19 T-Lab X3, 91 Serotta CII, 23 3T Strada
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3146 Post(s)
Liked 1,711 Times
in
1,033 Posts
The war itself was crippling to companies; most industrial activity was deployed for the war effort, of course, but the loss of equipment and livelihoods meant some bike companies ceased during the war and never restarted. Many of the pre-war bike brands, like NSU, Wanderer, Express, and Steyr, were in what become Soviet controlled East Germany, and shut off from the western, capitalist inputs which drove the development of other EU and American brands. Germany’s economic recovery was not really in effect until the Wirtschaftwunder period of the 1960s, at which time those bike companies which did restart did so working in a country half the size it was, and were effectively decades behind other countries’ bike industries. The Marshall Plan was designed to rebuild European and West German industry, but there was not unfettered growth and some industries were not supported, or were restricted, and key supply industries were, in some cases, on the other side of the Iron Curtain creating crippling shortages.
In short, the WW2 was devastating, and the post-war development meant it was almost impossible for the German bike business to grow in the same way it did in the USA or other parts of Europe.
Likes For chaadster: