Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Folding Bikes
Reload this Page >

Quick and easy demountable touring bike?

Notices
Folding Bikes Discuss the unique features and issues of folding bikes. Also a great place to learn what folding bike will work best for your needs.

Quick and easy demountable touring bike?

Old 08-18-19, 09:16 AM
  #1  
Winfried
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Winfried's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 1,734
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 247 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Quick and easy demountable touring bike?

Hello,

On more and more trains, the local company requires that bicycles be demounted and be no bigger than 120x90cm (~47x35"; No restriction on depth.)

As a more affordable alternative to the Moulton, I was wondering if a company had come up with a bike that would…
  • use quick-release solutions for every part that must be taken off the bike (wheels, fenders, saddle, handlebar, front and rear racks)
  • include fork + dropout + derailleur protections
  • demountable or folding pedals
  • include a light but sturdy bag that can be kept while touring
?

I have no idea how big the frame is on a regular bike. Would a minivelo be a definite plus?

Besides the size restriction, the idea is to to reduce the amount of time + risk of losing parts while demounting the bike on a train platform in a hurry.

Thank you.

Winfried is offline  
Old 08-18-19, 10:37 AM
  #2  
Pahana
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 78
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Please forgive me but I'm not sure what your looking for in a touring bike. I've rode Moulton, Bike Friday, Tern,Dahon and Brompton. I like the Brompton the best but the other bikes are all good. I'm sure you could tour on any of them. Most people use Bike Friday as a touring bike and I'm sure you would be very happy with one.
Pahana is offline  
Old 08-18-19, 12:28 PM
  #3  
Winfried
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Winfried's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 1,734
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 247 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
The goal is to be able to take it apart in a few minutes to fit the requirements and without any tools.

And like I wrote, for less money than a Bike Friday (which isn't available over here anyway).
Winfried is offline  
Old 08-18-19, 03:53 PM
  #4  
ttakata73
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Bangkok: hottest average temperature :(
Posts: 613

Bikes: 1998 GT Forte Ti 700c, Totem KDS-D 26" fatbike, Cannondale Hooligan1 20", BirdyGT 18", Brompton M2LX 16", Dahon Dove 14"

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 84 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Every folder would be smaller than the photo which looks like a full size 700c with the wheels taken off in a huge bag.
ttakata73 is offline  
Old 08-18-19, 04:05 PM
  #5  
Trevtassie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Down Under
Posts: 1,163

Bikes: A steel framed 26" off road tourer from a manufacturer who thinks they are cool. Giant Anthem. Trek 720 Multiroad pub bike. 10 kids bikes all under 20". Assorted waifs and unfinished projects.

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 338 Post(s)
Liked 46 Times in 25 Posts
Paratrooper?
Heavy to carry in a Rinko bag though.
Trevtassie is offline  
Old 08-18-19, 07:16 PM
  #6  
pinholecam
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 370
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 130 Post(s)
Liked 10 Times in 9 Posts
Originally Posted by Winfried View Post
Hello,

On more and more trains, the local company requires that bicycles be demounted and be no bigger than 120x90cm (~47x35"; No restriction on depth.)

As a more affordable alternative to the Moulton, I was wondering if a company had come up with a bike that would…
  • use quick-release solutions for every part that must be taken off the bike (wheels, fenders, saddle, handlebar, front and rear racks)
  • include fork + dropout + derailleur protections
  • demountable or folding pedals
  • include a light but sturdy bag that can be kept while touring
?

I have no idea how big the frame is on a regular bike. Would a minivelo be a definite plus?

Besides the size restriction, the idea is to to reduce the amount of time + risk of losing parts while demounting the bike on a train platform in a hurry.

Thank you.
  • use quick-release solutions for every part that must be taken off the bike (wheels, fenders, saddle, handlebar, front and rear racks)
>> Most Dahon/Tern folders are like this. Also the Tyrell.
There is no fenders that I know of that can be easily removed, though all of them will not impede the folding anyway. (same with rear racks)
Most folders don't take front racks, but most of the Dahon/Tern bikes have a front luggage truss for some lighter rack/bag.
  • include fork + dropout + derailleur protection
>> Usually whatever provided is inadequate if you are particular about it and you will have to DIY it with some protective tape.
You don't need dropout protection since the wheels stay on with most Dahon/Tern type folding bikes.
  • demountable or folding pedals
>> This is really up to the user, who can just buy Wellgo or MKS removable pedals
  • include a light but sturdy bag that can be kept while touring
>> Easy enough to buy one.
pinholecam is offline  
Old 08-19-19, 05:24 AM
  #7  
Winfried
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Winfried's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 1,734
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 247 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanks for the input.

As a more durable + performing solution, I'd rather a fixed frame than a folding frame.

The Moulton/S&S solution of breaking the frame in two is nice, but way over budget for most people.

Removing the wheels is easy and makes for a smaller fold, which might be necessary to fit the required size. That means protections for the dropouts + derailleur.

Unfortunately, I haven't seen any minivelo with a front luggage truss, even from Dahon (Smooth Hound, Dash, etc.) Especially with smaller wheels, it's much better than a pair of panniers on a front rack.

I was sceptical of the collapsable fenders on the Ahooga folding bike, but a user told me they do work. Besides, even while touring, it's not that common to have to ride the whole day in the rain, and even when it does, we have the rain gear for it, go for the sandals + shorts solution… or simply don't care at that point and change into dry clothes at the end of the day.

What about the handlebar: Is there a quick release solution to take the handlebar off the stem fast and without an allen key?
Winfried is offline  
Old 08-19-19, 08:51 AM
  #8  
Pahana
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 78
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Any bike like your looking for if it's out there is going to cost a few thousand dollars. Ritchey makes the Breakaway, a bike I've read good things about but again your looking at a few thousand dollars new. What I not sure of is why you are dismissing folding bikes from your choice. The reason I never bought a Moulton is that it doesn't fold and doesn't ride much better than a Brompton. You may need to rethink your plans to meet your budget. There are really good folding bikes out there at price points that are consumer friendly. Everyone here owns one or more folding bikes and can tell you that given the nature of the smaller wheels for the most part ride really well.
Pahana is offline  
Likes For Pahana:
Old 08-20-19, 10:40 AM
  #9  
Winfried
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Winfried's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 1,734
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 247 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Because I tour with a Brompton, have owned a few folders before/after, and am investigating a solution that includes the following features:
  • a fixed frame for better perfomance + durability
  • can be demounted in a few minutes on a train platform thanks to quick release attachments
  • demounted size 120x90cm
  • (option) disk brakes
  • (option) frame-mounted front rack à la Brompton/Tern/Dahon
  • < €$£1,000
Looks like there's no such bike on the market.
Winfried is offline  
Old 08-20-19, 01:05 PM
  #10  
Schwinnsta
Schwinnasaur
 
Schwinnsta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 930
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 165 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Swift comes close.
Schwinnsta is offline  
Old 08-20-19, 01:59 PM
  #11  
Winfried
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Winfried's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 1,734
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 247 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
End of lifed, apparently. And not available in Europe.

https://www.xootr.com/
Winfried is offline  
Old 08-20-19, 02:05 PM
  #12  
ttakata73
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Bangkok: hottest average temperature :(
Posts: 613

Bikes: 1998 GT Forte Ti 700c, Totem KDS-D 26" fatbike, Cannondale Hooligan1 20", BirdyGT 18", Brompton M2LX 16", Dahon Dove 14"

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 84 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Finding this one would be your challenge.
https://dahon.com/bikes/dash-p18-2/
ttakata73 is offline  
Old 08-20-19, 07:11 PM
  #13  
Reddleman
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Some Dahon Dashes are available in Europe on eBay from Italy, there’s also a shop in Lisbon, Portugal selling them. €1,000 apiece seems to be the going rate.
Reddleman is offline  
Old 08-20-19, 11:03 PM
  #14  
pinholecam
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 370
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 130 Post(s)
Liked 10 Times in 9 Posts
Originally Posted by Winfried View Post
Because I tour with a Brompton, have owned a few folders before/after, and am investigating a solution that includes the following features:
  • a fixed frame for better perfomance + durability
  • can be demounted in a few minutes on a train platform thanks to quick release attachments
  • demounted size 120x90cm
  • (option) disk brakes
  • (option) frame-mounted front rack à la Brompton/Tern/Dahon
  • < €$£1,000
Looks like there's no such bike on the market.

Why not just a Dahon/Tern then?
It certainly won't fall apart that easily despite the folding.

Dahon has a 26" Espresso
https://dahon.com/bikes/espresso-d24-4/

Tern has the Joe (within your budget here, but dunno what they charge in EU) (I think it meets all your listed needs)
https://www.ternbicycles.com/sg/bikes/471/joe-p27#specs

and the Eclipse
https://www.ternbicycles.com/sg/bike...ipse-d16#specs
pinholecam is offline  
Old 08-21-19, 06:06 AM
  #15  
tcs
Palmer
 
tcs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 5,953

Bikes: 1980 Mike Melton, 1982 Stumpjumper, 1982 Santana, 1984 Alex Moulton AM, 2008 BikeFriday tikit T-11, 2010 Dawes Briercliffe, 2017 Dahon Curl i5, 2019 Surly ½DT14

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 570 Post(s)
Liked 64 Times in 50 Posts
"every part that must be taken off the bike (wheels, fenders, saddle, handlebar, front and rear racks)...on a train platform in a hurry"




This approaches one requirement, but you said 'no tools'.


There's the 'Rinko' system, but even the proponents claim 10~15 minutes to breakdown the bike and that much time again to reassemble.


Last edited by tcs; 08-21-19 at 06:21 AM.
tcs is offline  
Old 08-21-19, 07:53 AM
  #16  
Winfried
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Winfried's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 1,734
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 247 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
By chance, I just came accross a post elsewhere in which someone mentioned rinko bikes :-) That's just what I had in mind.

https://janheine.wordpress.com/category/rinko/
Winfried is offline  
Old 08-21-19, 11:49 PM
  #17  
wqlava1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
A full size bike is about 105cm long from dropout to dropout. You just need to have bars not too long when turned sideways ( drops are narrower), take off both wheels, drop the saddle with a QR, take off or bend the pedals( I have both and MKS have good pedals, the folding pedals on my Dahon are terrible), and put it all in a bag like the Ground Effect Dogsbody bag ( it used to be called the Body Bag when I bought one years back). Bag weighs only 1200g and folds up the size of a ream of printer paper. Just to avoid bending the frame, get a pair of plastic press on dropout spacers that your LBS will always be throwing away as they come with every new boxed bike. It gets tiresome taking the RD off - maybe use a QR and fashion a stand similar in style to the rinko ones that I’s Bicycle in Japan sell.

Andrew

Last edited by wqlava1; 08-21-19 at 11:52 PM.
wqlava1 is offline  
Likes For wqlava1:
Old 08-22-19, 09:29 AM
  #18  
linberl
Senior Member
 
linberl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 2,501

Bikes: 2017 Bike Friday PakiT. Dahon Mu Uno (trailer bike) Sold: 2003 Bike Friday NWT, 1997 Trek 720, 1993 Trek 520)

Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 994 Post(s)
Liked 27 Times in 24 Posts
Why would a rinko be better than a good riding folding bike? Serious question, I've never seen a rinko bike. Is it just wheel size?
linberl is offline  
Old 08-22-19, 12:47 PM
  #19  
Schwinnsta
Schwinnasaur
 
Schwinnsta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 930
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 165 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
My understanding is that a Rinko is full size bike and frame, uncut, with most of the parts that stick out taken off and strapped back to the frame for transport. It can be a full size road bike. It's made for the components to be easy to take off. So it has none of the compromises inherent in a folder, but folders can get close.
Schwinnsta is offline  
Old 08-22-19, 02:07 PM
  #20  
linberl
Senior Member
 
linberl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 2,501

Bikes: 2017 Bike Friday PakiT. Dahon Mu Uno (trailer bike) Sold: 2003 Bike Friday NWT, 1997 Trek 720, 1993 Trek 520)

Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 994 Post(s)
Liked 27 Times in 24 Posts
Originally Posted by Schwinnsta View Post
My understanding is that a Rinko is full size bike and frame, uncut, with most of the parts that stick out taken off and strapped back to the frame for transport. It can be a full size road bike. It's made for the components to be easy to take off. So it has none of the compromises inherent in a folder, but folders can get close.
Thanks. Personally, with bikes like Bike Friday, Pacific Reach, etc., out there (which ride as well as a regular bike) I'm not sure I see the value, but obviously some folks do. We're very lucky to have so many choices.
linberl is offline  
Old 08-22-19, 07:43 PM
  #21  
pinholecam
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 370
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 130 Post(s)
Liked 10 Times in 9 Posts
Originally Posted by linberl View Post
Why would a rinko be better than a good riding folding bike? Serious question, I've never seen a rinko bike. Is it just wheel size?
I think the Rinko system works because a typical East Asian (up till probably 1980's anyway) is 1.65m and not a 1.8m of a typical US guy.
The reason is that the bike frame does not break down, so a small sized frame with jutting parts removed is rather small (not too different from a mini-velo frame).
A larger frame can visually look smaller too if its held vertically with most jutting parts removed, but its still rather large placed horizontally.
A soft bag which can be packed tight against the frame/bike package also helps with the smaller appearance.

The Rinko system is also more in context with what is allowed on the Japanese transport system though the same rules may apply to other countries.
(ie. bike must be completely covered with a bike bag. Max size 250cm in total. Length less than 200cm.


While we may tout the merits of the smaller wheeled bike here, there are indeed some advantages to a larger wheeled bike.
1. Rolls better over road imperfections
2. Ultimately faster with larger gear inches and less losses due to less rpm.
3. Less heel strike issues with rear luggage/rack/panniers
4. Rolls over most short inclines better
5. More options for standard parts, touring bags, etc
6. More likely to find spares in a local bike shop


I have small wheel folding bikes as well as road bikes and recently a 650b folding Change Bike and ride weekly with/against road bikers with them.
The main benefits of a smaller wheeled bike are size, portability, niffy handling, lower gearing (and somehow more fun too)


Personally, I know I don't have the patience to dismantle/reassemble a bike in the Rinko fashion for coach/train travel.
pinholecam is offline  
Likes For pinholecam:
Old 08-23-19, 12:56 AM
  #22  
jonmanjiro
Senior Member
 
jonmanjiro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Yokohama
Posts: 54
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked 8 Times in 7 Posts
I know what "rinko" means in Japanese.

"rin" is written using the character for "wheel" and by extension, "bicycle".
"ko" is written using the character for "to go" somewhere.
Combined together the two characters form the word "rinko" which literally means "bicycle-go", or take your bicycle with you when you go somewhere.

Usually it refers to taking your bicycle on public transport, but is also equally applicable to putting your bicycle in a car and taking it somewhere.
On public transport in Japan, you need to have your bicycle in a bag so you don't get grease or grime on other passengers, so that's how rinko bags came about.

So, in Japan, one does "rinko" with any bicycle (as long as its in a bag if you use public transport). I do "rinko" often with Tern and Dahon folding bikes, but I have also seen plenty of people doing "rinko" with full size road bikes. When using public transport, they usually pop off the front wheel to make the package smaller, then bag the bicycle and removed front wheel, and carry the bag onto the train, or bus, etc.

So what exactly does "rinko" means in English??? Has it morphed into some special meaning above and beyond the original Japanese meaning, so there now exists a special type of bicycle known as "rinko bicycle" ???

Greetings from Yokohama.
jonmanjiro is offline  
Old 08-23-19, 02:09 AM
  #23  
pinholecam
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 370
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 130 Post(s)
Liked 10 Times in 9 Posts
Originally Posted by linberl View Post
Why would a rinko be better than a good riding folding bike? Serious question, I've never seen a rinko bike. Is it just wheel size?
Originally Posted by jonmanjiro View Post
I know what "rinko" means in Japanese.

"rin" is written using the character for "wheel" and by extension, "bicycle".
"ko" is written using the character for "to go" somewhere.
Combined together the two characters form the word "rinko" which literally means "bicycle-go", or take your bicycle with you when you go somewhere.

Usually it refers to taking your bicycle on public transport, but is also equally applicable to putting your bicycle in a car and taking it somewhere.
On public transport in Japan, you need to have your bicycle in a bag so you don't get grease or grime on other passengers, so that's how rinko bags came about.

So, in Japan, one does "rinko" with any bicycle (as long as its in a bag if you use public transport). I do "rinko" often with Tern and Dahon folding bikes, but I have also seen plenty of people doing "rinko" with full size road bikes. When using public transport, they usually pop off the front wheel to make the package smaller, then bag the bicycle and removed front wheel, and carry the bag onto the train, or bus, etc.

So what exactly does "rinko" means in English??? Has it morphed into some special meaning above and beyond the original Japanese meaning, so there now exists a special type of bicycle known as "rinko bicycle" ???

Greetings from Yokohama.
No change in it.
It actually refers to the exact thing you mentioned
pinholecam is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.