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Why to people ride opposite traffic?

Old 09-12-20, 05:04 PM
  #26  
ChrisWagner
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Why do motorist run over and kill cyclist riding the bike lane in the legal direction?
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Old 09-12-20, 06:56 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by cubewheels
I often had near collisions with cyclists in the opposite traffic, coincidentally, all of them are not wearing helmets.

This is why I only ride a cheap bike. The wiser cyclists who are familiar with my city advice to only have "disposable bikes" and I would probably never ever bother with carbon parts.
ya other bicyclists lately are worse than cars.
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Old 09-12-20, 07:00 PM
  #28  
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To try and run me down when I am in a bike line with clear arrows pointing in the direction I am going.

I had this happen to me and was not happy. The idiot going the wrong direction had the gaul to be mad at me.

People love to be dangerous to feel like they are safe in their own personal bubble.
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Old 09-12-20, 07:00 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by GlennR
I see many "casual" riders that ride facing traffic.

So why do people feel safer when they are not?
This seems a rather silly question, at least if you are in the US. Many people here are very stupid.
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Old 09-12-20, 07:03 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene
While we're at it, what's with all the cheap or lazy suburban homeowners who don't put in sidewalks, so everyone's out walking around in the street?
Is this a lame attempt at sarcastic humor, or do you really not realize that municipalities are responsible for installing sidewalks? Sure, homeowners might be responsible for maintenance, but they do not build sidewalks.
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Old 09-12-20, 07:09 PM
  #31  
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  • Lack of training on bicycling skills by parents (I don't blame it on schools or other government agencies). .
  • Parental paranoia - kids at taught to ride on the sidewalk as its not safe riding in the street with all those big SUVs that constantly weave all over the road (driven by parents of kids), and kids are taught to ride facing traffic so you can see danger approaching (as long as you're not looking at your dumbphone).
  • Lack of enforcement by local LEOs (other priorities take up their time).
  • Foreigners with different upbringings. In some third world countries folks learn to ride facing traffic.
  • . . . and ignorance or indifference by some who don't care. .
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Old 09-12-20, 07:16 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by IGH_Only
I agree with you but riding in NYC is not exactly the prototypical experience. For one thing, some people might be paranoid about drivers behind them that they may not be able to see and because drivers are often so careless, I could see them bumping into cyclists who are going in the same direction as well.
NYC is a very special case... I always rode with traffic in NYC when I lived in NYC (I rode mostly in the outerboroughs, BK, QNS, rarely in Manhattan), but I always figured that people always ride against traffic in NYC in NYC to avoid having to go a street or avenue out of their way, since so many streets are one way.

Last edited by mikedk13; 09-12-20 at 07:27 PM.
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Old 09-12-20, 08:14 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Koyote
Is this a lame attempt at sarcastic humor, or do you really not realize that municipalities are responsible for installing sidewalks? Sure, homeowners might be responsible for maintenance, but they do not build sidewalks.
I'm not sure how things work where you live but in the West, it is almost always the developers who are responsible. It's the cost of developing. They're also usually responsible for parks and other goodies. The municipalities usually have to deal with upkeep and whatnot.
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Old 09-12-20, 08:19 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by mikedk13
NYC is a very special case... I always rode with traffic in NYC when I lived in NYC (I rode mostly in the outerboroughs, BK, QNS, rarely in Manhattan), but I always figured that people always ride against traffic in NYC in NYC to avoid having to go a street or avenue out of their way, since so many streets are one way.
No doubt NYC is a special case. But let's take Manhattan for instance. And it's hard to talk about with a good diagram. But if you live one block away on the side you happen to already be on. Do those folks really ride across the street, up the block and cross it back (three times, once to cross, and then 90 degrees left and cross again and then one more time)? Of course that last part I assume they might walk it across so they just have to cross the street once and not 3 times.
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Old 09-12-20, 08:20 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by IGH_Only
I'm not sure how things work where you live but in the West, it is almost always the developers who are responsible. It's the cost of developing. They're also usually responsible for parks and other goodies. The municipalities usually have to deal with upkeep and whatnot.
Upon reflection, even the last part isn't often true as they are so many HOA developments that are responsible for maintenance of the sidewalks and the streets themselves.
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Old 09-12-20, 08:46 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by IGH_Only
No doubt NYC is a special case. But let's take Manhattan for instance. And it's hard to talk about with a good diagram. But if you live one block away on the side you happen to already be on. Do those folks really ride across the street, up the block and cross it back (three times, once to cross, and then 90 degrees left and cross again and then one more time)? Of course that last part I assume they might walk it across so they just have to cross the street once and not 3 times.
If I'm following you correctly, exactly that. And probably in middle of the street.

Upon reflection, I did ride the wrong way a fair number of times, so maybe not literally always, it was usually because I was being lazy and coming from one direction or another and it was easier to go the wrong way around, but I consciously tried to avoid it as a matter of principle. It would usually happen when I was coming by to the my apartment at the time from my brother in law's and it was easier to go the wrong way literally 10 yards to the front of my apartment door than go down one avenue and back around. My apartment was right at the corner of a one way street.

Like someone said about ped's earlier in the thread, it's extra opportunistic in NYC for both cyclists and peds.

Now that I live in the suburbs, yes, always with traffic (although my current town also has an excessive number of one way streets off of Main St (but at least Main St isn't one way...).

Last edited by mikedk13; 09-12-20 at 08:55 PM.
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Old 09-12-20, 08:54 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by IGH_Only
Upon reflection, even the last part isn't often true as they are so many HOA developments that are responsible for maintenance of the sidewalks and the streets themselves.
I've been on a couple HOA boards, and we were never responsible for streets. But I have never lived in a gated community or anything like that.

Now, I should correct myself on the sidewalks: ultimately, yes, you are correct that developers put in sidewalks, and homeowners are often responsible for maintenance. So, given that developers will pass on the construction cost to home buyers, they (home buyers) are ultimately responsible. However - and this is a big 'however' - these things must be mandated by a municipality, and in fact some are now relieving homeowners of the financial responsibility of maintenance -- as well they should. A sidewalk is a classic 'public good' that should be provided by government.
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Old 09-12-20, 09:02 PM
  #38  
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Lately when I am in the bike lane I have noticed people walking and jogging in the lane. Even where there are ample sidewalks , folks are taking the bike lanes forcing the cyclists into the street traffic. I don’t understand why people don’t want to use the sidewalks for walking. Even if I ring my bell and warn of my approach they just keep pushing the stroller ignoring the fact that their feet are stepping on a bicycle painted on the asphalt with the words “bike lane” ! Defiance is alive and well. I just think a lot of folks are angry and looking for confrontation. It is different times we live in. Best not engage just keep pedaling.
as far as bikes riding the wrong direction, usually homeless or school kids. I was out at the coast in Ventura where they have bike rentals and I saw a lot of that as well as riding through traffic without stopping at lights or stop signs.

Last edited by Kabuki12; 09-12-20 at 09:06 PM.
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Old 09-12-20, 09:25 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by mikedk13
If I'm following you correctly, exactly that. And probably in middle of the street.

Upon reflection, I did ride the wrong way a fair number of times, so maybe not literally always, it was usually because I was being lazy and coming from one direction or another and it was easier to go the wrong way around, but I consciously tried to avoid it as a matter of principle. It would usually happen when I was coming by to the my apartment at the time from my brother in law's and it was easier to go the wrong way literally 10 yards to the front of my apartment door than go down one avenue and back around. .
And that's what I would expect from many well intentioned riders. It's human nature. While I have no doubt there are plenty of cyclist scofflaws, there's just a lot of times that I think some of these folks (not in the OP's example), are just trying to be reasonable and if they don't see a hazard, they're going to do the most efficient thing. I'm guessing if I had footage of all the times every on this thread rode a bike, I could find dozens if not hundreds of examples of not following the strict letter of the law. Let me be clear that I am not trying to downplay the seriousness of the example that the OP was referring to, but when you extend that example to it's inevitable letter of the law, you get to a point where everyone is guilty at one point or another.
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Old 09-12-20, 09:29 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by IGH_Only
I'm not sure how things work where you live but in the West, it is almost always the developers who are responsible. It's the cost of developing. They're also usually responsible for parks and other goodies. The municipalities usually have to deal with upkeep and whatnot.

Its actually a mix. Most municipalities have standards for developers to develop open land/lots - building set-backs, street width, sidewalks, % of acreage devoted to parks, # of street lights, street signs, sewer/water/electric/gas lines, etc. Developers put those in and 'donate' the public infrastructure to the municipality (sidewalks, ug pipes, etc). For HOAs its a little different, as these days some of that infrastructure can be left as HOA ownership and the HOA's responsibility to maintain it - water & sewer lines, fire hydrants, street lights, street pavement itself, green space, and sometimes sidewalks, etc.
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Old 09-12-20, 09:36 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Kabuki12
Lately when I am in the bike lane I have noticed people walking and jogging in the lane. Even where there are ample sidewalks , folks are taking the bike lanes forcing the cyclists into the street traffic. I don’t understand why people don’t want to use the sidewalks for walking. Even if I ring my bell and warn of my approach they just keep pushing the stroller ignoring the fact that their feet are stepping on a bicycle painted on the asphalt with the words “bike lane” ! Defiance is alive and well. I just think a lot of folks are angry and looking for confrontation. It is different times we live in. Best not engage just keep pedaling.
as far as bikes riding the wrong direction, usually homeless or school kids. I was out at the coast in Ventura where they have bike rentals and I saw a lot of that as well as riding through traffic without stopping at lights or stop signs.
Best answer I've ever found is the misapplication theory that the asphalt pavement is 'softer' and more forgiving on your joints. The running world has extrapolated this from roadway design in that road are designed to hold certain loads, and any loads over that amount (like a heavily-laden truck) will 'flex' the asphalt; that's why you see a lot of roads with load-limit signs. a 150lb runner extrapolates that the asphalt is softer, and will provide some joint 'cushioning' thatwill benefit him/her. However, they are extrapolating too far in that the 'flex' or 'cushion' only applies when you get to loads in the thousnads of pounds of weight.

Also, there's a lot of stuff to wak/jog into when you're not paying attention due to having your smartphone's headphones on full blast.
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Old 09-13-20, 07:00 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by skidder
Best answer I've ever found is the misapplication theory that the asphalt pavement is 'softer' and more forgiving on your joints. The running world has extrapolated this from roadway design in that road are designed to hold certain loads, and any loads over that amount (like a heavily-laden truck) will 'flex' the asphalt; that's why you see a lot of roads with load-limit signs. a 150lb runner extrapolates that the asphalt is softer, and will provide some joint 'cushioning' thatwill benefit him/her. However, they are extrapolating too far in that the 'flex' or 'cushion' only applies when you get to loads in the thousnads of pounds of weight.

Also, there's a lot of stuff to wak/jog into when you're not paying attention due to having your smartphone's headphones on full blast.
Written by a "non pavement pounder?" . I can't RUN thanks to bone on bone knees from bowed legs so my 5K's to marathons and up to 33 mile WALKS do not create the impact forces that many runners experience but there is a difference felt between concrete and asphalt and that is at 140lbs.

p.s. - even felt when on asphalt paths that transition to concrete sidewalks.

Last edited by OldTryGuy; 09-13-20 at 07:06 AM.
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Old 09-13-20, 08:13 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by OldTryGuy
Written by a "non pavement pounder?" . I can't RUN thanks to bone on bone knees from bowed legs so my 5K's to marathons and up to 33 mile WALKS do not create the impact forces that many runners experience but there is a difference felt between concrete and asphalt and that is at 140lbs.

p.s. - even felt when on asphalt paths that transition to concrete sidewalks.
I used to be a pavement pounder up until my late-20s when life got in the way. Everything from a 4:24 mile to a 2:32 marathon. Stopped competitive stuff when I started working full time, then really limited my running (and increased the bicycling) when the usual 'aching' joints turned to 'sore' joints that didn't seem to recover as fast as they used to.

Yes, all asphalt paths are not built the same. Those used by heavy trucks are built a lot better to handle excessive weight, while a MUP path has a less-sophisticated roadbed under that asphalt and would be easily damaged by similar heavy truck traffic. Cheers
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Old 09-13-20, 01:33 PM
  #44  
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Some people apparently believe they are safer riding against traffic as if they were pedestrians. I see this even in the bike lanes here, which are clearly marked with arrows painted on the pavement to indicate the proper direction.

Go figure.
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Old 09-13-20, 01:47 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson
Some people apparently believe they are safer riding against traffic as if they were pedestrians. I see this even in the bike lanes here, which are clearly marked with arrows painted on the pavement to indicate the proper direction.

Go figure.
While driving last week on a 45mph speed limit 2 lanes both direction with a center island AND A SIDEWALK just feet away I had a 3 wheel trike rider riding salmon style in a bike lane.
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Old 09-13-20, 05:20 PM
  #46  
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better question would be why do runners like to run opposite traffic, in the bike lane
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Old 09-13-20, 05:25 PM
  #47  
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I will answer you question with a statement.

You can't fix stupid. !
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Old 09-13-20, 06:02 PM
  #48  
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From https://bikeeasy.org/blog/archives/1385/
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Old 09-13-20, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by aclinjury
better question would be why do runners like to run opposite traffic, in the bike lane
Even when there is a perfectly acceptable sidewalk available.

I have no idea.
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Old 09-13-20, 08:20 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Pop N Wood
From https://bikeeasy.org/blog/archives/1385/
I couldn't get the link you provided to open, but using Google Scholar, I did find what is apparently a pdf version of the study here:

https://www.bicyclinglife.com/Library/Accident-Study.pdf
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