Expanded Tern recall
#101
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My point was bikes sold in the Philippines have little consumer protection but bikes sold in Europe, the US and Japan have greater protection and require certification. It seemed to be a brand mainly sold in the Philippines. The situation could be similar in China for bikes only sold in China.
#102
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Bonzo,
I imported several containers of bikes into the UK. There was never a certification process.
Thanks
Yan
I imported several containers of bikes into the UK. There was never a certification process.
Thanks
Yan
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Designer of Downtube Folding Bike
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#103
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There have been cases where the frame failed in the first few months of ownership. Design of the latch fragile/fussy? Poor factory assembly?
#104
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I'm not in the industry, but AFAIK ISO 4210, ISO 8098, ANSI Z315.1, CPSC 1512 (16 CFR 1512), ASTM F 1975, ASTM F 2273, 19 CFR 134, AS/NZS 1927, AS/NZS 8124, JIS D 9301, JIS D 9302, CPSA 0052, EN 14764, EN 14766, EN 14781, EN 14872, EN 14765, EN 71-1, EN 15194, BS 6102, NF R30-020, DIN 79100, DIN 79105, GB 14746 AND GB 14747 are all mandatory to meet but compliance (certification) is on the honor system.
#105
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My point was bikes sold in the Philippines have little consumer protection but bikes sold in Europe, the US and Japan have greater protection and require certification. It seemed to be a brand mainly sold in the Philippines. The situation could be similar in China for bikes only sold in China.
#106
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Some retailers had suggested if bikes had been returned to the store for their 6 week check (or whatever) loose bolts on the hinges would have been spotted.
I know that sounds like a get out clause but still there is truth to it.
#108
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https://shop.bsigroup.com/ProductDet...00000030259907
Many of the chinese bike manufacturers clearly show their models are certified with CNAS logo's etc on their site. If you are reselling such bikes then you are pretty much good to go in many markets. Someone like fuji-ta probably has certification available for a wide range of models. Smaller back street bike manufacturers who produce lower volumes and more likely to create an inconsistent product may not. That certainly was my experience of chinese manufacturers. Some would only certify a product with a concrete order to go with it.
#109
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I think someone may have pointed this out already but if the tube itself fails that is poor design and/or material quality but if the weld itself fails that is more likely a manufacturing quality issue.
#111
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Regarding the Tern: Last year German "Ökotest" magazine did a test of folding bikes. The test itself was pretty ridiculous but one thing they did was to get an external institute to test the bikes for compliance with the norm DIN EN ISO 4210 (this is the norm mandantory for bikes within the EU). Some of them failed for various reasons and if I remember correctly one of them was the Tern Link C7i - the frame broke at the hinge during the endurance test (which consists AFAIK of 100.000 cycles of stressing, simulating i.e. riding out of the saddle).
Last edited by berlinonaut; 08-27-17 at 02:01 PM.
#112
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There is one problem here....my memory. I think I filed paperwork that the factory had some certification ( I don't recall exactly ). However I am 100% sure that all testing was done at the factory. The UK did not get any bikes from me for testing or any other purpose.
Thanks
Yan
Thanks
Yan
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Designer of Downtube Folding Bike
Ph.D. Temple University ( Math )
Biked across the USA twice
Semi-active chess player ( two time Bahamas National Champion )
Sivananda ( Bahamas ) Trained Yoga instructor ( 2013 ) and ThetaHealer since 2013
Bicycle delivery worker for Jimmy John's. Delivering is the best workout I have ever had.
#113
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Interesting you should mention the Tern Link C7 berlinonaut. If you look online at the reviews or stores that have it for sale, you'll come across the 2012 version with the earlier hinge lock. Compare it to the 2015 and later version, bulkier and more secure hinge.
Clearly they (Tern) thought a change was needed....I wonder why
Clearly they (Tern) thought a change was needed....I wonder why
#114
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Looking at the Tern bikes web site it appears there are three types of frame latch. The original OCL 1.0, the later FBL latch that had hidden sections that fitted into keys as the frame was folded presumably to keep the whole bike more rigid. The latest version is the FBL 2.0 which is what I have on my folder (not a Tern) where the back section envelopes the front piece to make an even more secure lock. I wonder if any of the newer frames with the latest hinge have failed.
#115
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Well - Yan IS the manufacturer (or at least brand-owner) of downtube. As far as I know bikes imported into the EU have mandatorily to comply with EU norms. It is the duty of the importing party to ensure the compliance. So it is responsible for the testing and it is (again as far as I know) allowed to do this himself (though this is a complex process). It is illegal to sell bikes that have not been certified. Officially, bikes that do not comply with the norms are subject to be destroyed if this is discovered. But probably it rarely does due to the amount of imported goods. In any case if there happens an accident with a bike that does not fulfill those norms the seller will be in deep trouble (again if this is discovered). So any commercial importer or seller ignoring the certification process takes a huge economical risk. I'd assume that the situation is not much different in the US or Japan and am really wondering that Yan does not seem to know about this.
Regarding the Tern: Last year German "Ökotest" magazine did a test of folding bikes. The test itself was pretty ridiculous but one thing they did was to get an external institute to test the bikes for compliance with the norm DIN EN ISO 4210 (this is the norm mandantory for bikes within the EU). Some of them failed for various reasons and if I remember correctly one of them was the Tern Link C7i - the frame broke at the hinge during the endurance test (which consists AFAIK of 100.000 cycles of stressing, simulating i.e. riding out of the saddle).
Regarding the Tern: Last year German "Ökotest" magazine did a test of folding bikes. The test itself was pretty ridiculous but one thing they did was to get an external institute to test the bikes for compliance with the norm DIN EN ISO 4210 (this is the norm mandantory for bikes within the EU). Some of them failed for various reasons and if I remember correctly one of them was the Tern Link C7i - the frame broke at the hinge during the endurance test (which consists AFAIK of 100.000 cycles of stressing, simulating i.e. riding out of the saddle).
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#116
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Disclosure: I own a Tern Verge S11i with a frame replaced under the recall after about 4,000 miles. The replacement frame has about 1,200 miles on it.
Steve
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The Tern recalls are for certain batches of first gen models made in 2011 and 2012. As long as you don't buy a Tern made in those years you should be fine. There's a simple way to tell - recalled bikes have a frame number beginning with AI.
https://www.ternbicycles.com/2014-li...luntary-recall
Side note: The son of Dahon's founder quit his father's company to start Tern. Dahon is the biggest producer of folding bikes in the world. I hope the son has learned a lesson: That's what happens when you cut corners to save a few bucks.
https://www.ternbicycles.com/2014-li...luntary-recall
Side note: The son of Dahon's founder quit his father's company to start Tern. Dahon is the biggest producer of folding bikes in the world. I hope the son has learned a lesson: That's what happens when you cut corners to save a few bucks.
#118
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It's not clear that this is the reason for the frame failures. There are design errors not motivated by cost reduction, manufacturing (welding) errors, defective supplied materials, and probably lots more I can't think of. I imagine there were a lot of ways to cut costs that didn't apply to critical structures.
I always felt that the problem had its basis in the drive to reduce weight, which is perhaps felt more keenly in folding bikes than some other types (racing excepted). Of course there are other ways to reduce weight; it seems likely that the frame was not designed on the back of a napkin without any involvement of people with engineering expertise.
It was interesting to me that the replacement frame for my bike weighed the same as the original to within a gram, so some weight re-distribution seems to have occurred.
Steve
I always felt that the problem had its basis in the drive to reduce weight, which is perhaps felt more keenly in folding bikes than some other types (racing excepted). Of course there are other ways to reduce weight; it seems likely that the frame was not designed on the back of a napkin without any involvement of people with engineering expertise.
It was interesting to me that the replacement frame for my bike weighed the same as the original to within a gram, so some weight re-distribution seems to have occurred.
Steve
#119
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Can't remember the details. I had the paper version back then but that was last year. At least one other bike ended up with a broken frame: On the B-Fold 300 the welding broke at the bottom-bracket. This is shown on a picture on the teaser-webpage with the technical test-details.
#120
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During this thread I got the understanding that some bikes broke apart that were not part of the recall. Did it get this wrong?
#121
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Interesting you should mention the Tern Link C7 berlinonaut. If you look online at the reviews or stores that have it for sale, you'll come across the 2012 version with the earlier hinge lock. Compare it to the 2015 and later version, bulkier and more secure hinge.
Clearly they (Tern) thought a change was needed....I wonder why
Clearly they (Tern) thought a change was needed....I wonder why
#122
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If a bike frame made by Tern breaks in 2017, for example that does not mean the frame was made in 2017. Most likely the frame was made in 2011 or 2012, but it didn't fail until 2017. Perhaps the original owner moved, sold the bike, etc and never get the recall notice before it was too late. So its still possible to see more 1st gen bikes failing in the future.
Last edited by northernlights; 08-28-17 at 01:25 AM.
#123
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I haven't seen proof of such. If that were true, the consumer protection agency would have been all over it by now and would say something about it. Making assumptions without real evidence, isn't helpful to anyone.
If a bike frame made by Tern breaks in 2017, for example that does not mean the frame was made in 2017. Most likely the frame was made in 2011 or 2012, but it didn't fail until 2017. Perhaps the original owner moved, sold the bike, etc and never get the recall notice before it was too late. So its still possible to see more 1st gen bikes failing in the future.
If a bike frame made by Tern breaks in 2017, for example that does not mean the frame was made in 2017. Most likely the frame was made in 2011 or 2012, but it didn't fail until 2017. Perhaps the original owner moved, sold the bike, etc and never get the recall notice before it was too late. So its still possible to see more 1st gen bikes failing in the future.
https://www.bikeforums.net/19760019-post80.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/18803816-post48.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/18728802-post7.htm
The test of a German magazine in 2016 that I mentioned
possible recall in Japan (hard to understand): https://www.bikeforums.net/18819765-post63.html
new recall from Tern: https://www.cpsc.gov/recalls/2016/st...ding-bicycles/
I've no interest in blaming Tern. But it seems to me more and more that there may be issues with their product safety to which they possibly do not seem to react properly.
#124
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Cases mentioned in this thread alone where bikes broke that were NOT included in Tern's recall:
https://www.bikeforums.net/19760019-post80.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/18803816-post48.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/18728802-post7.htm
The test of a German magazine in 2016 that I mentioned
possible recall in Japan (hard to understand): https://www.bikeforums.net/18819765-post63.html
new recall from Tern: https://www.cpsc.gov/recalls/2016/st...ding-bicycles/
I've no interest in blaming Tern. But it seems to me more and more that there may be issues with their product safety to which they possibly do not seem to react properly.
https://www.bikeforums.net/19760019-post80.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/18803816-post48.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/18728802-post7.htm
The test of a German magazine in 2016 that I mentioned
possible recall in Japan (hard to understand): https://www.bikeforums.net/18819765-post63.html
new recall from Tern: https://www.cpsc.gov/recalls/2016/st...ding-bicycles/
I've no interest in blaming Tern. But it seems to me more and more that there may be issues with their product safety to which they possibly do not seem to react properly.
Thanks for the info. Looks like they have some very deep-rooted problems at this company that may never get fixed. Too bad, seemed like such a promising company. Tern's marketing is pretty fantastic, and I guess that's where they decided to invest all their money rather than quality control. I'll go with Dahon from now on.
#125
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Thanks for the info. Looks like they have some very deep-rooted problems at this company that may never get fixed. Too bad, seemed like such a promising company. Tern's marketing is pretty fantastic, and I guess that's where they decided to invest all their money rather than quality control. I'll go with Dahon from now on.