Reynolds 853 Steel Gravel Frames?
03-12-20, 03:51 AM
#51
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I found it by searching for Reynolds 631 853 percent elongation. Pretty sure it came from Reynolds. I would like to see a definitive document listing the material properties of these tubes. The catalogs seem more aimed at marketing.
Since 631 is air hardening, and they hope you will harden it as a result of joining, the ductility where it really matters is going to be very similar to 853, even if the unwelded elongation is different. I'm much more interested in yield strength, since I hope to never worry about ductility. Which is an answer to how robust it is after it suffers some sort of failure. Yield strength is very important in fatigue failure.
Since 631 is air hardening, and they hope you will harden it as a result of joining, the ductility where it really matters is going to be very similar to 853, even if the unwelded elongation is different. I'm much more interested in yield strength, since I hope to never worry about ductility. Which is an answer to how robust it is after it suffers some sort of failure. Yield strength is very important in fatigue failure.
Anyway, I didn't think it said anything about elongation but I have just found a table of "Material Properties" on page 5 which has "E% min", which I think is elongation percentage. This is 8% for 853 and 725 and 10% for 631 and 525. So I think the heat treatment is reducing the ductility (and increasing the strength) in the normal sort of way. Also interesting to see that 631 is the same ductility as 525 (regular CrMo) because I think I read somewhere that it might not have been.
Elsewhere in the doc it does say that if you weld 631 with ER-80S-2 wire the weld can reach 1000MPa with reduced ductility. Its quoted strength out of the box is 800MPa so that does imply that the weld itself can end up "heat-treated" compared to the rest of the tube-- stronger and less ductile. They're not recommending you actually use ER-80S-2, just making the point about air-hardening. ER-70S-2 and ER-70S-6 are also fine. They make no mention of welding CrMo or 631/853 with a stainless rod and I have no idea why some people do that other than they like the rainbow colours.
Last edited by guy153; 03-12-20 at 04:03 AM.
03-12-20, 04:11 AM
#52
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The thing about Columbus is I think they change the alloys but keep the same marketing names. So "Life" might have been "Nivacrom" at some point in the past but in 2018 was the Niobium alloy. It might be "Omnicrom" nowadays (my most recent catalogue is 2018). Also if you buy a Life tube from your framebuilding supplier how do you know how long it's been on the shelf for and therefore what exact alloy it is?
03-12-20, 09:49 AM
#53
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I happen to trust Columbus a lot more than I trust Reynolds. But my biases definitely have been influenced by the company's products many ownership changes ago.
03-12-20, 12:48 PM
#54
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curious to hear why. And are the biases that were set long ago more for Columbus or more against Reynolds?
03-14-20, 01:16 PM
#55
Somewhat slow older guy
Poprad True Temper OX
[QUOTE=ctak;21356396]True temper platinum ox is similar to 853. Lemond moved away from 853 mid 2000s as I recall
I've got one of the True Temper Poprads- 2006, (I believe), riding it extensively for flat, smooth gravel.
Can't fit anything larger than 32c in the rear.
I've got one of the True Temper Poprads- 2006, (I believe), riding it extensively for flat, smooth gravel.
Can't fit anything larger than 32c in the rear.
03-17-20, 05:34 PM
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With Soma, the Tange Prestige isnt the same as what it was back in the 80s/90s. Its beefier at 8/5/8 than the 7/4/7 Japan Prestige of old. In the same butting profiles and tubing diameters, the new Prestige is heavier. Not saying thats worse, just that it isnt the same as what was revered, even though it has the same name. There is a reason why one is called 'Prestige' and the other is 'Prestige Japan'. Also, a fork from Soma will be an aluminum steerer, QR dropouts, and post mount brake. All that is totally fine, but its also not really the most up to date in terms of trends, if that matters.
Product Detail ********************?? Tange International Co., Ltd.
Product Detail ********************?? Tange International Co., Ltd.
Product Detail ********************?? Tange International Co., Ltd.
Product Detail ********************?? Tange International Co., Ltd.
Last edited by AeroGut; 03-17-20 at 07:05 PM.
03-17-20, 05:42 PM
#57
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Given that SOMA describes their frames as “heat treated” and they use a 27.2 seatpost in a 28.6 OD seat tube, I believe that the tubing they are using is the one listed as “Tange Prestige Japan” not the plain “Tange Prestige”. So 7/4/7 rather than 8/5/8. I’m not positive of that though.
03-18-20, 07:25 AM
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lots of high-end seat tubes are 28.6 with a .9/.6 wall. Just for seatpost compatibility. Columbus make some that are (hate to say it) triple butted, with .45 in the middle.
