steaktaco

I'm having an issue with my wife's crit bike. It's the first time I've built-up Sram, but I've worked on her Rival bike for a while now and have built up a dozen other bikes in the past (mostly Campy).

As it is, the shift lever is so stiff I can barely get a click in to upshift [to a smaller cog]. Sometimes it feels like I'm going to break it. Forget downshifting [to a larger cog] three cogs at a time. Cable tension seems high, but it's at the lowest possible tension that will let me line up with the cogs.

-I compared the cable routing with her road bike, looks identical to me.
-I readjusted the lever reach to see if that is putting the shift lever at a bad angle. Nope.
-I adjusted he cage so that it's farther away from the largest cog. Nope.
-I took out the wheel and shifted with a lose chain. Nope.
-I freed the cable and shifted without tension. There you go. Smooth as butter.

What am I doing wrong? Help.

rydaddy

This is a longshot but check the cable where it clamps to the derailleur. I've made the mistake of clamping on the wrong side of the pinch bolt and it resulted in shifting as you explain.

steaktaco

Nope. It's almost as if the derailleur itself has too much spring tension, causing the shifters to jam up.

grahny

You forgot to put campy on this bike too... hehehe

steaktaco

No kidding grahns. You riding these days?

grahny

Yup... just back on and starting to get out regularly. We'll have to get some morning rides in real soon.

Val23708

pictures are needed then. cause i'm thinking along the same lines... that the cable is attached in some odd manner.

tim00gle

Check the routing of the cables for any sharp bends. Cables will rub on the housing if the bends are too tight and cause a lot of binding that you described.

umd

It sounds like you have the cable tension too high instead of using the limit screws to name the adjustments. Assume we are talking rear derailed since you mention cogs.

ripperj 

-Try pulling on the cable at some exposed place and see how it feels. If it is still hard then use your hand to move the derailer and see if it really is stiff.

-Compare the bend radius of the cable housing at the rear to the "good bike"

-Make sure the housings are not crushed where you cut them

-Make sure the bar tape is not bending the housing where it exits the shifter.(i think both my Red and Rival have two exit point choices depending on bar shape)

-keep at it! SRAM is awesome!

ted ward

Shift cable on the wrong side of the derailleur pinch bolt. On the wrong side, it will sort of work but offers very little leverage.

steaktaco

It's running out of the barrel adjuster, through the groove, around the pinch bolt, and against the lip. Just like on the good bike and as shown on the Sram service video.

I freed the cable, held on to it by hand, and shifted effortlessly though the entire shifter range. Routing is clean from the shifter to the barrel adjusters.

The cable tension does seem high but the lowest I can have it and still line up the cogs and reach the largest cog.

It's about the same. I gave it ample length so there are no corners.

It sure feels like this is the issue, but it's clamped correctly.

Anymore bright ideas? Foreman? Thirteen?

steaktaco

Here's a different issue. On the good bike, the front derailleur works like this:
click > trim position
click > big ring
release > small ring

On the new bike, which has Force shifters instead of Rival, it's like this:
click > big ring
release > trim position
release > small ring

I've tried all sorts of cable tension and just can't get it to go from the small ring to the trim position, it jumps straight to the big ring.

igknighted

Don't use cable tension to align the derailleur on the cogs... that's what the limit screws are for. I had to adjust mine quite a bit on my rival setup, and it shifts perfectly. A little clunkier than Shimano, but I like feeling the shift.

steaktaco

Limit screws are for aligning the cage to the smallest and the largest cog. Tension makes it so you can reach largest cog in the first place. If you can't reach the largest cog then there's no point in the Low limit screw.

At least that's the way it is on Campy and Shimano. Is Sram different?

umd

That's the difference between the old and new force/rival. Used to trim small, now trims big...

umd

It still sounds like you are using the tension to do the limit screw's job.

steaktaco

D'oh thanks.

By lining up I really mean lining up the middle cogs (cogs 5 and 6) which is how I know I have the right tension to get up the the largest cog. I don't mean lining up the extremes.

rydaddy

This is possible only for the high limit (small cog). When the cable is detached, is the derailleur cage in line with the smallest cog or is it further out?

Are you absolutely sure the cable is pinched on the right side? The plate with groove could have spun to the other side. You want maximum leverage.

umd

But if you are starting out without the limit screw in far enough you will need more tension across the entire range.

Edit: I also had something similar happen once when the frame barrel adjuster was stuck...

rydaddy

I'm not sure how you do it, but I start with the small cog when I attach the cable. Then downshift. If it's hesitant, add tension using the barrel adjuster. Repeat the process. Eventually you'll find the right tension where shifting is perfect throughout. If the high limit is off, then you are starting with a higher initial tension, which is not neccessary. The cable should be close to slack in your highest gear.

steaktaco

I did the limit screws first, before the chain even went on. And also I've taken the cable on and off so many times by now.

Fat Boy

Just for poops and giggles, I'd disconnect the cable and make sure the is no drag on it. Have you used these particular shifters and/or derailler before? You might have gotten one or the other that is somehow screwed up.

Val23708

do the limit screws first. H then L. then adjust the cable. it should be as close to slack as possible on your 11 or 12t. then you adjust all the way up to your 23/25/27t.

make sure your cable is routed like this:

i do hope you are turning the crank as you shift around, or else you'll never make it past 3 or 4 clicks.

steaktaco

Hey all, thanks for the tips. I've tried all these before I even posted, then once more as you all suggested. As far as I can tell there's nothing wrong with the installation. I was hoping for something crazy simple like "Duh, did you use the super-secret Sram cable ends?" or something like that.

Right now I'm down to either a bad ratchet on the shifter, or an out-of-tolerance spring on the derailleur. Without the cassette/wheel on, this derailleur is considerably stiffer to push than the older Rival derailleur. I'll take it to the shop this weekend.

It's not all lost. umd solved the trim issue that had me baffled.