Oslo: The Journey to Car Free
#51
Prefers Cicero
Unless laser vision correction helps them live car free, I don't get the relevance.
#52
Senior Member
What's your metric? A "Livability" index makes a lot more sense that simply being anti-car. Surely Davis does not have a high "Livability" index because the residents there are anti-car? Irvine, CA has a higher "Livability" index than Davis. Does that mean it has more LVC residents? You can be anti-car anywhere just as you can enjoy a comfortable lifestyle without being anti-car.
#53
Prefers Cicero
What's your metric? A "Livability" index makes a lot more sense that simply being anti-car. Surely Davis does not have a high "Livability" index because the residents there are anti-car? Irvine, CA has a higher "Livability" index than Davis. Does that mean it has more LVC residents? You can be anti-car anywhere just as you can enjoy a comfortable lifestyle without being anti-car.
#54
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#55
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You can LCF as a hand on a tuna boat in the middle of the Pacific.
#56
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You can own a dozen cars and drive them everyday to and from your McMansion and still proudly wear the LCF/Car-light label (as the term is used on this list), just as long as you occasionally ride a bike or walk somewhere, anywhere. Or take a bus or commuter train every now and then.
#57
Senior Member
What LCF is mostly about once you strip away all of the moralizing, politics and religion is simply a description of life in places where it doesn't make sense to drive:
The upshot of it is, you can LCF anywhere but to make it work without taking a serious hit to a "livable" lifestyle means you pretty much can only live in certain places and forget about everywhere else--i.e.,
--i.e., LCF isn't about much more than living like most any healthy person could and likely would choose to live when circumstances make it a viable option.
I will be the first to admit that there is one key factor has allowed me to enjoy a car-free life for 10 years in 5 or 6 different cities... (see, https://www.treehugger.com/bikes/1-f...-10-years.html )
In every city, I chose a place from which I could easily and enjoyably get to my key destinations either on foot, bicycle, or public transit... the key thread has been living in a location in which it doesn't make sense to drive. (Ibid.)
#58
Prefers Cicero
Until you land, and then you have to decide.
No, you can also LCF in places where driving is optional.
Somewhat true. There are places where LCF is much more practical and places like Cayucos where it is much less so.
LOL - I don't think you actually meant to say this.
LOL - I don't think you actually meant to say this.
Last edited by cooker; 05-01-17 at 03:26 PM.
#59
Prefers Cicero
You can own a dozen cars and drive them everyday to and from your McMansion and still proudly wear the LCF/Car-light label (as the term is used on this list), just as long as you occasionally ride a bike or walk somewhere, anywhere. Or take a bus or commuter train every now and then.
#60
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#61
Prefers Cicero
That's quite a different statement from I-Like-To-Bike's extravagant exaggeration about people who "occasionally ride a bike or walk somewhere, anywhere. Or take a bus or commuter train every now and then", and even so, I don't believe yours is accurate. When we had a thread on uber and cabs a couple of years ago most people said they hardly used them, or not at all. Buses are not the same thing as cars. People who own cars can still minimize their use. People who don't own a car, but use or ride in a car very occasionally, are a lot closer to being car-free than someone who owns a car all the time and uses it daily. I haven't seen anybody here say they "regularly" bum rides - if you don't quote, it weren't wrote.
Last edited by cooker; 05-01-17 at 04:56 PM.
#62
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Are you stating that people who occasionally ride a bike or walk somewhere, anywhere, or take a bus or commuter train every now and then are NOT car light? What defines a person who owns/drives a car as not car light? Is it not ever riding a bike, not ever walking about outside the home, and never using public transit or what? If that is not the disqualification basis for car light status, how many walking, biking or bus trips are necessary to qualify?
Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 05-01-17 at 05:50 PM.
#63
Prefers Cicero
Baloney, everybody is car-light who claims to be so. When is a person who claims the mantle of car light, not car light?
Are you stating that people who occasionally ride a bike or walk somewhere, anywhere, or take a bus or commuter train every now and then are NOT car light? What defines a person who owns/drives a car as not car light? Is it not ever riding a bike, not ever walking about outside the home, and never using public transit or what? If that is not the disqualification basis for car light status, how many walking, biking or bus trips are necessary to qualify?
Are you stating that people who occasionally ride a bike or walk somewhere, anywhere, or take a bus or commuter train every now and then are NOT car light? What defines a person who owns/drives a car as not car light? Is it not ever riding a bike, not ever walking about outside the home, and never using public transit or what? If that is not the disqualification basis for car light status, how many walking, biking or bus trips are necessary to qualify?
#64
Senior Member
#66
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Can this definitional debating about 'car-free' finally be ended by simply acknowledging that this is a bike forum, so the only reason it was pertinent to create an LCF sub-forum separate from commuting or cargo bikes was to discuss the goal of living without driving, which may include transit and walking, and not just biking?
Likewise, can we stop making 'car-free' a personal status that is either achieved or not, with no in-between? Striving to be more car-free is the goal, not making 'car-free' an absolute category so that people can be told that whether they drive one day a year or every day, they are not 'car-free' so don't bother. The point is striving for liberation from driving-dependency, not claiming or attaining a status.
Likewise, can we stop making 'car-free' a personal status that is either achieved or not, with no in-between? Striving to be more car-free is the goal, not making 'car-free' an absolute category so that people can be told that whether they drive one day a year or every day, they are not 'car-free' so don't bother. The point is striving for liberation from driving-dependency, not claiming or attaining a status.
#67
Senior Member
Can this definitional debating about 'car-free' finally be ended by simply acknowledging that this is a bike forum, so the only reason it was pertinent to create an LCF sub-forum separate from commuting or cargo bikes was to discuss the goal of living without driving, which may include transit and walking, and not just biking?
Likewise, can we stop making 'car-free' a personal status that is either achieved or not, with no in-between? Striving to be more car-free is the goal, not making 'car-free' an absolute category so that people can be told that whether they drive one day a year or every day, they are not 'car-free' so don't bother. The point is striving for liberation from driving-dependency, not claiming or attaining a stats.
Likewise, can we stop making 'car-free' a personal status that is either achieved or not, with no in-between? Striving to be more car-free is the goal, not making 'car-free' an absolute category so that people can be told that whether they drive one day a year or every day, they are not 'car-free' so don't bother. The point is striving for liberation from driving-dependency, not claiming or attaining a stats.
#68
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#69
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I don't think so-- it's either a conscious or unconscious set of circumstances of living or choosing to live in a place where mobility without the personal transportation is not an issue (e.g., living in an urban area, on or near a college campus or even a small town (Cabot Cove?) or a conscious or unconscious choice to give up mobility (included here might be, for example, persons who chose to drink and drive and got a DUI so they cannot legally drive).
It's not all about how conducive an area is to LCF. Most driving commutes are under 10 miles, so practically anyone without dependent children at home can take an extra half-hour or hour before and after work to bike-commute, if they want. It may not be as LCF-friendly as living a few blocks from a train/bus stop that takes you right to work, or living 2 miles from work so you can bike comfortably in a few minutes, but it isn't an insurmountable obstacle to going CF.
#70
Senior Member
To get to work, the average commuter travels approximately 15 miles one way. Two out of three commuters (68 percent) reported a one-way commute of 15 miles or less, 22 percent traveled between 16 and 30 miles and 11 percent traveled more than 30 miles. ~OmniStats - U.S. Department of Transportation
#71
Prefers Cicero
#72
Senior Member
Given the lifestyle of most, the average person apparently does not have enough hours in the day to LCF... at least, the average productively employed individual who is trying to earn enough during his or her highest earning years to plan for a comfortable retirement.
According to the U.S. Department of Transportation Federal Highway Administration (FHWA), the average American driver logs 13,476 miles each year.
and,
For cyclists in Copenhagen, the average cycling speed is 15.5 km/h (9.6 mph). On a racing bicycle, a reasonably fit rider can ride at 40 km/h (25 mph) on flat ground for short periods.
That works out to ~117 hrs/month on the bike or ~4 hrs./day
According to the U.S. Department of Transportation Federal Highway Administration (FHWA), the average American driver logs 13,476 miles each year.
and,
For cyclists in Copenhagen, the average cycling speed is 15.5 km/h (9.6 mph). On a racing bicycle, a reasonably fit rider can ride at 40 km/h (25 mph) on flat ground for short periods.
That works out to ~117 hrs/month on the bike or ~4 hrs./day
#73
Senior Member
#74
Prefers Cicero
Given the lifestyle of most, the average person apparently does not have enough hours in the day to LCF... at least, the average productively employed individual who is trying to earn enough during his or her highest earning years to plan for a comfortable retirement....
According to the U.S. Department of Transportation Federal Highway Administration (FHWA), the average American driver logs 13,476 miles each year.
According to the U.S. Department of Transportation Federal Highway Administration (FHWA), the average American driver logs 13,476 miles each year.
#75
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To get to work, the average commuter travels approximately 15 miles one way. Two out of three commuters (68 percent) reported a one-way commute of 15 miles or less, 22 percent traveled between 16 and 30 miles and 11 percent traveled more than 30 miles. ~OmniStats - U.S. Department of Transportation