dogbitteneear

If they are not willing to take care of themselves, just take of yourself. They'll end up being
"ugly hood ornaments"!
Bob

mackerel

pro⋅jec⋅tion [pruh-jek-shuhn]
11. Psychology.
a. the tendency to ascribe to another person feelings, thoughts, or attitudes present in oneself, or to regard external reality as embodying such feelings, thoughts, etc., in some way.

buzzman

I've scanned some of your posts in this thread and where I think you are missing the point is that there is a time and a place for advocacy. Many of us who have been actively involved in cycling organizations for years, worked in bike shops and been around cycling a long time choose the appropriate forum in which to express our opinions. If you work in a shop that's a perfectly legitimate place to offer advice about lights, or at an advocacy meeting, or a letter to the editor, or even these forums.

I, for one, have learned that admonishing people to "get a light", "get a helmet", "fix your bike", "get on the other side of the street", "get off the sidewalk" is not advocacy. It's public lecturing at best and intolerably arrogant at worst. And, in the long run, it doesn't work.

Those kinds of chastisements only make the chastiser feel self-righteous and the person being chastised more indignant. If you don't believe me simply take a breath and take a look at the kinds of responses you have elicited from posters in this thread. You've succeeded only in getting people to dig their heels in and you have resorted to the internet equivalent of shouting.

I'm sure most of us have lost friends and/or family to cancer or heart disease but I don't admonish the people I know for smoking, eating too much, not exercising and I most certainly wouldn't presume to do such a thing to a stranger on the street- which is the equivalent of admonishing or even giving unsolicited, no matter how "well intentioned", advice to a passing cyclist.

mackerel

People who "shout" on the internet usually cannot be reasoned with.

randya

It was suggested that you/we advocate for a real bicycle lighting standard, rather than the current 'stupid reflector plus whatever aftermarket light the bike owner does/doesn't buy' standard, as enforced by the safety nannies on the street, and you just blew that suggestion off without a second thought.

Therefore, screw you and your holier than thou attitude.

randya

Here's another option: Get Lit

randya

Advocate my way or not at all! What a bunch of hot air!

CB HI

So you now wish to insult my grandfather who homesteaded in Wyoming, not to mention everyone who has ever lived in Wyoming or Montana. What a piece of work you are.

CB HI

I missed that direct statement in this thread. Please provide the quote and post #.

CB HI

So, how about actually providing a real example that has occurred and been upheld in the US.

ricebowl

Grant Petersen comes to A&S

Severian

Ok I get it... I'm done here. I apologize for any hurt feelings that my direct statements have caused.

BUT, I still think that there is something more that has to be done. Though the standard we have is good (see the law in the UVC about lights on bicycles), it can be better. That advocacy can and should still happen. That enforcement by the cops won't change the behavior all the masses of cyclists who either don't know the law or have made a conscious decision to break the law. Maybe shouting at fellow cyclists who pass isn't the right answer for getting the word out but its a damn sight better than doing nothing, or hoping that your example will do anything.

pacificaslim

Maybe i've missed it, but I'm still wondering why the hell you think this is any of your business? Is it causing you any harm? I really doubt anyone out there is wanting you to take care of them.

Bruce Rosar

Positive approaches (i.e., "carrots") are usually more effective in the long run than "sticks" (such as shouting or enforcement). Carrot options include education (so more folks believe that bike lights are a great idea) and advocating for programs that help folks who are less financially well off to obtain lights for their bike.

mackerel

That's an apology?!
How about apologizing for your childish behavior?

I-Like-To-Bike

Don't feel bad, I seriously doubt that anyone took seriously your foolish ranting about the need/benefits of on the spot shout outs, especially after you decided to ELECTRONICALLY START SHOUTING INSTRUCTIONS TO BF POSTERS. But don't fool yourself, it is obvious, YOU don't get "it" and probably never will.

genec

Gun control laws.

mackerel

True - you cannot shoot a gun while riding a bicycle without getting into some serious trouble.

Allister

You need to find ways to increase your conspicuity.

Pray for them?

Whining about them on BF is another time honoured tradition.

There's more to bike advocacy than merely admonishing strangers in the street.

Allister

I thought you said you were done here.

uke

...or over the intertubes.

dynodonn 

I'd probably go hoarse if I shouted at every bicyclist I see riding with out lights at night, and tonight I felt like the minority, being that every bicyclist I saw was riding without any form of light whatsoever. I'll put my vocal energy to better use at the bicycling forum that our local area is going to have in a few days.

apricissimus 

I just realized that I have yelled at other cyclists who were riding unsafely. In this case I've yelled at a few cyclist who were wrong way riding and coming right at me. Opinions from BF members on whether yelling at these people was a good idea are welcome.

PaulH

"Cast not pearls before swine"

Paul

I-Like-To-Bike

You just realized this?

You do recognize don't you, that there is a difference between yelling/screaming a warning in order to prevent a collision, and the "educational outreaching" proposed by at least one BF poster or the snarky obnoxious call-out of the LBS owner to strangers that were no threat to him.