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Options to upgrade trail crossing at 4-way intersection

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Options to upgrade trail crossing at 4-way intersection

Old 09-12-19, 09:47 AM
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Hypno Toad
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Options to upgrade trail crossing at 4-way intersection

I'm working with the city of Hopkins to kick-start an advocacy group. As I've been getting word out about this new group, there's one thing that comes up repeatedly - the Lake Minnetonka Trail crossing at 9th & 1st (see image). Google maps shows the official route (green dashed line), in reality, nearly nobody (on bike or on foot) takes the official route - nearly everyone takes the most direct route, diagonally across the intersection.

There are stop signs for 9th and 1st and the trail, so it's a 6-way stop. The trail is a busy regional trail, the roads are typically low traffic. To my knowledge, there have been no collisions here, so it's not really a safety issue. However, I've witnessed a lot of confusion from trail users and people driving the roads.

I'd love to know if you've seen a solution to an intersection like this that worked well - or something didn't work.

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Old 09-12-19, 10:04 AM
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Not a four way intersection with four way stops, but a T intesection (major road top of T):

Cedar St, Mass Ave and Alewife Linear Park/Somerville Community Path

There's a phase where all road traffic and all pedestrians are stopped, and the bike path (green diagonal through the intersection) is given exclusive green bike signal to cross. Some people on bikes wait for the bike signal. Others go on the two walk signals and use the crosswalks. (Still others improvise.)

The biggest caution is a countdown clock would be very nice - the yellow bicycle signal phase is short enough that some riders enter the intersection on green but don't clear it before road traffic is given their green lights.

Would it work with just the green bike lane diagonally across the intersection and stop signs? Don't know.

There's also a six road intersection with five stops. Wouldn't recommend.

-mr. bill

Last edited by mr_bill; 09-12-19 at 01:20 PM.
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Old 09-12-19, 11:09 AM
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If all you're really doing is trying to reduce confusion, I would recommend signs at the trail crossing and roads indicating which route bikes/pedestrians should take. That's about all you can do with a crossing like that without major expenditure and redesign.
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Old 09-12-19, 11:26 AM
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This might need to reduce the number of some parking spots, but it looks to me like there is almost room for a traffic circle with a bike lane. BTW, at Traffice Circles, vehicles already in a traffic circle have right of way, those entering the traffic circle YIELD.
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Old 09-12-19, 11:41 AM
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Traffic Circle example

These are small traffic circles for low traffic areas, but are very effective.
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Old 09-12-19, 12:33 PM
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Found a 4-way stop diagonal scramble intersection in Van Nuys. They've had good experience. High pedestrian, low motor traffic.

Sylmar Ave & Sylvan St.

NACTO Los Angeles DOT brief presentation

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Old 09-12-19, 02:01 PM
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Interesting idea. I've never seen a combined transportation mode traffic circle, but as long as you have a good way to keep the cars from going onto the bike path, that would be a good idea, I think.
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Old 09-12-19, 02:30 PM
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I think it would work on TWO lane roads.


Example below is 4 lane traffic circle, but if you consider the outer lane to be the bike lane, I think it would work fine on TWO lane roads. It would NOT work on FOUR lane roads as the inner car moving right to exit the circle might not be able to see a bike / trike that was hidden by another vehicle.
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Old 09-12-19, 03:57 PM
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Just warning about small traffic circles.

If they are small enough, they are easy to ride a bike through.

But they are miserable to walk through.

Unless motor traffic is rare, don’t. Unless truck traffic is near zero, beware.

(Plus they are expensive to shoehorn into
an existing intersection.)

Have way too much experience with too many rotaries of all sizes usually ineptly executed and always driven through by mad drivers. Yield? With my piece of crap car?

-mr. bill
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Old 09-12-19, 05:23 PM
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Diagonal crosswalk markings might help.
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Old 09-13-19, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by BobbyG
Diagonal crosswalk markings might help.
My thought as well. They are certainly not conventional and few communities use them, but they since this is a low traffic intersection, they may work well. If I were riding that as it is now, I would probably opt for the street rather than the existing cross walks.
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Old 09-22-19, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by mr_bill
Just warning about small traffic circles.

Unless motor traffic is rare, don’t. Unless truck traffic is near zero, beware.
They also absolutely suck for a snowplow driver and the OP is in MN.

Seems to me the cheapest and easiest is signage.Something to the effect of "All bicycle traffic" with arrows directing you to the preferred crossing direction. Of course some people will ignore anything you do.
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Old 09-22-19, 08:37 AM
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As mentioned a few times before, diagonal crosswalk. No trail involved, but the intersection of Linden and Canyon Crest in the University of California Riverside (connecting the main campus to housing, mostly):

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