Toccata47

I haven't been on a bike that "goes" for many years and have decided to change that. I had been looking to road bikes when a craigslist ad opened my eyes to the whole fixed gear thing, (I live under a rock). I never really cared for shifting, nor handbreaks so fixed gear seems like a natural fit.

I've looked into getting a vintage frame and building my own, but even with a sub $100 frame it seems difficult to stretch a buck as far as I can with a new bike...see below.

A shop about 90 minutes away has what seem like great prices on 2010/2011 closeouts. I can pick up either a Schwinn Madison or a Jamis Beatnik for just below $300, inclusive.

BD has a TT pro in my size for $380.

Used pistas come up for around 450 occasionally, but infrequently enough for proper
size matching to make things tricky.

I've read many comparison threads, but being new to bikes, much of what I've read goes over my head. For example, why are steel frames prefered to chromoly? How does one determine how a bike will handle when looking only at frame geometry...and how does 1 degree of rake make a frame more or less comfortable then another?

I still have plenty of learn...

Anyway, I think at this stage it makes alot more sense for me to buy something already assembled either whole or as a kit.

Anyone care to offer up their experiences with any of the above bikes?

From what I've read I've formed an opinion (rightly or wrongly) that the Kilo and Pista have very similar frame geometry and construction, similar quality components, but the pista has superior saddle and wheels...but for a large premium.

I'm lead to believe the Madison has similar quality components to the above, but with a less nimble frame. Perhaps it is more comfortable to ride for 3+ rides, but handles slower in traffic/urban environments.

Lastly, I've had a hard time finding opinions of the beatnik. I'm not sure if it's viewed in the same category as the other three.


I'll only be able to directly compare the beatnik and madison, so any and all help is appreciated.

Based on the prices I've listed are there any standouts?

Verbose

From the prices I've seen around the web, that madison sounds like a steal. I saw someone riding one for the first time in person the other day and it is quite a nice looking bike. With the shop being so far though, I'd certainly test-ride/inspect the hell out of it.

homebrewk

Here's the thing. I would almost always buy a bike from a shop if you can. That way you can see and test the bike in person. You can't do that with a Kilo TT.

Toccata47

My preference is for a bike I ride first. That said, anyone have any time on any of the above? Leasons learned?

chenghiz

Chromoly IS steel, a specific alloy that is stronger than regular (high-tensile) steel, meaning frames made with chromoly are stiffer and/or lighter than hi-ten frames.

For handling, the things you want to look at are headtube angle and seat tube angle. The higher the number, the more responsive and twitchy the steering will be. This is also true of the fork rake, except in reverse - lower rake is twitchier.

Of course, I could be totally wrong, I'm good at that.

Nash Deluxe

like homebrewk said, test ride the options you have at your local bike shop. the schwinn and jamis are both good bikes. component quality will be in the same range. those are definitely good prices for those bikes.

homebrewk

The Madison is a great bike.

max5480

the Pista is a greater bike

homebrewk

True that.

Toccata47

Thought you all were sour on the pista here

Thanks for the feedback so far. Have either of you guys ridden both the pista and the madison? I'm most interested in those two at this point.

There's a used pista nearby but it's a 59 and at 5'11 with a 32.375 inseam I'm pretty sure a 59 will be too big.

chenghiz

Pista has a slack headtube angle and has no track cred. But I guess the others don't really have any cred either.

homebrewk

A lot of out fellow forum members (Scrodzilla, Lilc, etc.) have owned or own Madisons. It's a great bike. As for the Pista I can't think of anyone off the top of my head who has one but fellow forum member Leukybear just bough a Pista via Condotti (a version of the standard Pista) for his wife and she likes it.

hwdxbassist

Schwiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiin madison

Lilcphoto

Here's my perspective:

Everybody is different. I liked my Kilo over my Madison because it was lighter and more nimble, but @ 120 lbs weight was a definite factor for me. The Madison is built like a tank. I think the Madison is a great bike for anybody who weights enough to notice when a frame flexes.

The kilo is a great priced bike. They are simple, easy, and some of the upgrades you might do to it will not carry over to the next bike (seatpost, fork, stem (depending)). I have never ridden a Pista but I always associate it as the Kilo that you can buy at your LBS. They are quite popular around Portland, and they serve their purpose. I did get a chance to ride a Bianchi San Jose (which I would very much compare to a Madison) but alas, different story.

I have not heard, nor read anything about the Jamis Beatnik, but my advice, which along with other members above me have mentioned, is to take a look at your LBS and really test them out. If you don't plan on upgrading any of the parts in the future, and/or you are not machanically savvy, I would suggest purchasing from an LBS. The cost might be a bit higher, but you receive a lot more support down the road with that initial investment.

If you let us know a bit more about your desires; I.E. how far your riding, what your trip might encounter (on-road, off-road, dirt, gravel etc), how much you care about looks, your budget, riding style, similarities to a gorilla, we might be able to help you out a bit more.

max5480

the point is: get whichever you think looks the coolest.

cc700

the kilo is terrible and it won't last you four years and keep ticking or be awesome always or make you want to keep it looking pretty and changing parts so you love the parts as much as the frame.

it's a cheap mass produced frame but it's damn awesome for being that.

i'd get a chrome pista if you can find a really good deal on it otherwise i'd get a chrome lugged kilo from bikeisland and call it good.

Leukybear 

You can't go wrong with any bike you listed. ~Depending on the year, I'd kick out the Beatnik through, because as of recently, Jamis putting profits before customer satisfaction, intentionally downgraded the tubing of the beatnik from cromoly to no-frills hi tensile steel; whilst not dropping the MSRP.

seau grateau

Pasta

Toccata47

Some really great feedback here, thanks all.

Slippery follow up question- If I stretch my budget to say @700 usd, will the bikes be better* enough to justify the expense? Better for me equates to durability, little need to upgrade parts for a year, and a smoother ride.

Fuzzy logic dictates a decent bike for $300 is great...but $700 should buy me a better-er bike, no?

So my question is....Langster steel, Masi speciale, Surly steamroller.....are there standouts here vs the pista or madison?

I had originally planned to ride about 20 miles/week in town and around local bike paths in fair weather. I think I'm going to extend that to around 50 miles/week in similar environments but extend my riding to include east coast winters and light rain.

Lilcphoto

I might have different logic than others, but I come from the line of people whom think a geo metro is the best car in the world... I.E it gets you from point A to point B and does it without using a lot of gas. Anybody can sell you on any bike...

A kilo will last one guy 10 years without doing anything to it, where as it will last another guy 10 days... maybe that is a bit of a stretch, but the point I am trying to make is get what you want the most and be happy. If you want to spend a bit more, yes the bikes will get better, but to what extent. There really isn't a bike out there that has everything you want unless you build it up yourself, and sometimes you can do that within your budget but most of the time building it yourself always exceeds your "planned budget". If you want to spend more, I say get something cheaper and upgrade the parts... if all else, you can keep those nicer parts for the next setup...

hamish5178

Didn't read the thread (watching The Meaning of Life) but don't forget about the cheap Kilos (pro and otherwise) at BikeIsland.

I got my green Kilo from them for $280. Just had to true the rear wheel.

homebrewk

They have complete Kilos at BikeIsland? All I see is the Pro:

https://bikeisland.com/cgi-bin/BKTK_S...ls&ProdID=2136

But they also have a somewhat scuffed Moto Team Track...

https://bikeisland.com/cgi-bin/BKTK_S...ls&ProdID=2136