Psimet2001 

I have to admit I love it when a Trek of any type walks into the store. Sooooo much easier to work on at the lowest level.

There's changes coming in the industry as well. Trek is moving heavy. It's been buying up it's dealers in markets it wants. There's heavy talk amongst dealers that Trek and other OEMs have been holding back inventory of bikes for their own direct to consumer channels.

Had a long talk with a smaller OEM Yesterday and he told me that the component companies are in essence telling them that they need to up their orders by 1 order of magnitude or they simply won't take their orders. It's forced them to put thousands of bikes on their planners then in the past they might have sold 1,000 a year total across all models. Even then the communication with the parts guys are "uh..yeah...another 30 days..." which they receive every 30 days.

Some shops are just now receiving orders for bikes they placed in Feb/March. That's only the bike OEMs that aren't even the big ones. I've been hearing that some OEMs are saying their 2021 model years are just done - long gone in terms of what's been planned and sold. Specs on bikes aren't going to be what consumers would think or expect. In other words you know that part in every catalog where it says the exact component spec may vary.... well next year it's not "may" it's "will".

I imagine we will be seeing piles of threads here that go, "I started riding a lot during the pandemic so during the winter I decided to save up and buy a new bike as sort of a reward for riding more. I spent a lot of hours researching what was out there and visited a lot of shops. Nearly no one had anything on hand and I was told the wait times were just getting longer by the day."

" Based on that I decided to just go with my first choice and put the deposit down. I picked it because it had the right mix of ____ groupset and the wheels on it were the nicer ones that you find on their next model up but it was at least $xxx less expensive so I felt it was a great value. My shop said it would take 3 months so I was prepared to wait. At 3 months I called the shop and the first 3 guys I talked to had no idea what I was talking about. Finally I found the guy who confirmed I was waiting for my bike but he just kind of laughed when I asked if it was in and said, 'yeah no chance. I would say you have at least another 3 weeks'. So when I waited 4 more weeks just to 'give them a break.'"

"The first kid on the phone says he thinks it's weird I am waiting because he has seen at least 20 of those bikes come through he shop in the last month. I was furious. He could tell I was upset and he didn't really know what to do so he put his manager on the phone. This guy tells me that my bike still hasn't come in yet and that the kid was either wrong or that anything close to what I ordered must have been for customers that put their orders in before me. At this point I think they're just scamming me and I am really regretting the decision to buy the bike. After a lot of back and forth where I make it known I am highly disappointed with how this whole transaction is going he makes me assurances that he will do everything he can to expedite my now 4 month old order for this bike. He said he would call back in a day or two with an update."

"3 days later I call back because I hadn't heard. He tells me he is still waiting to hear back from his inside guy at the OEM and that he will call me back on Monday. that next Wednesday I call back just ready to cancel my order. The manager isn't there. I was told he decided to 'take a day off' and that there was no one else there who could help me. Not satisfied I start combing through every shop in 3 states - calling all of them to see if I can find my bike. They all just simply laugh at me or tell me they can't help me."

"I decided to drive the 4 hours to the nearest big flagship store the brand had. I walked in and there was one of my bikes sitting on the floor. I talked to the manager there and told them I believed i should be able to take it and they should just transfer my payment from the other shop. They told me that wasn't possible and while we were talking it was sold to another customer who walked in that day."

"I also started looking at used bikes to see if there was something else that would fit the bill but my heart was just set on my original bike. I decided to just sit and wait and ride what I had. Finally at 6 months in I get a call back from the manager. He apologizes for the wait and tells me he is actually the owner and everything got worse because he caught "the big c-19" and wasn't on vacation but was recovering. The shutdown at the shop to clean and for his sick employees didn't help things either. My bike was in and that they were going to put it in front of everything else they had in their queue. Even though I wasn't happy with the wait and feel like I had gotten the run around I was finally happy that I would be finally be getting my new bike. At the agreed upon time I showed up to pick it up. Turns out it was still being built. He said they had such a large number of customers that it's been taking much longer than expected. I am thinking it was just a ploy to have me milling around the store to buy something while waiting."

"Then this kid comes over and tells me that if I am waiting that I have to wait outside because they can only have a few people in the store because of their safety protocol. When I try to convince this kid that I AM a customer and have been for 6 months plus he isn't hearing any of it and pushes me outside to wait. 40 minutes later the manager comes out with my new bike. At first I am excited but I am also still immensely upset about everything up to this point. I don't want to hang around so I grab the bike and leave. When I get home and pull it out I keep thinking something seems a little off. It looks different. At first i just kind of think that maybe the graphics or finish on some of the parts might have changed during all the time I waited for the bike. So I pull out all the printout I had from the web when I bought it and I start going down the parts list and notice that almost all of the parts are different. The crank was actually a "nicer" one than what was originally spec'd but the brakes weren't Shimano. They were some brand called tektro or something. Then I noticed the wheels were completely different. I have never even heard of the brand they are."

"At this point I am so mad and I want all of this to be over. I waited for this bike because of the value I thought it represented only to have to wait so long and not even get the bike I ordered. I then realized that the owner was probably busy taking off the parts it was supposed to have and swapping them with cheaper or off brand parts just so he could sell the nicer ones. When I took it back in to the store he kept saying that the spec was always subject to change and that the bike he gave me was exactly how the OEM sent it to him. I couldn't believe he was lying to me right to my face. I had enough and demanded my money back. At first he balked and started talking about a restocking charge and how he was out money for all the labor he spent answering my calls and assembling the bike. When I threatened to sue he just caved and gave me back everything."

"Then I was sitting in the parking lot and telling my wife on the phone what had happened and I see this guy walk out of the store with my bike - the one I JUST returned. When I ask him about it he said it was on the floor and was just what he was looking for. When I asked how much he paid he told me a price that was 20% MORE than what I had paid for it!!"

"LBSs are such a rip off!"

...it's coming.

Reflector Guy

I had a similar conversation with a shop just yesterday. Their website had the bike I wanted listed as in stock, in the size I want and everything. So I added it to my cart.

Then I got curious and opened up a Chat window with them and asked about it. The guy there said, yep, if it let me add it to the Cart, it's in stock. All I needed to do was add my credit card number.

Then he asked me what bike it was. A long pause followed. When he came back, he said no, not until January! But he did mention they've sold 50+ of them already this month!

Meanwhile, at another shop, I have the exact same bike already on order and they've even charged my card, but they have no idea when it'll be in.

rousseau

Thanks very much for a thoughtful, heartfelt post. Specifically this:

I've always intuitively understood that this kind of thing wouldn't be feasible, but your precise and detailed explanation makes it concrete. And as someone working in a (sort of) service industry as well, I can concur that the "little jobs" often take more time than you might think, and as they accumulate you find it hard to get back to the big job with a looming deadline.

colnago62

There is this shop in Kent, Washington named Center Cycle. They have one of the largest inventories in the state. The racks you see in the picture are now pretty much all empty. There mechanics had their hands full just repairing customer bikes. They put up a sign that said they were not taking anymore repair work to keep the people with bikes that are not really repairable from flooding the shop.

Amt0571

3 days to replace a pulley wheel and you're happy? That's a 5 minutes job even replacing both pulleys.

That's one of the reasons my bikes don't come near any LBS unless I need some really expensive tool I can't justify buying (rarely happens).

KiwiDallas

Please read my follow-up post to this.

--K

KiwiDallas

I stopped by LBS #2 yesterday with a six-pack of Dos Equis (thiz Texas, after all).

It was well received.

=K

KiwiDallas

One more post and I can reply to the PMs I've received here. Thinking I should put on either my prettiest little black dress, or my hardest asbestos underwear.

Certainly a variety of opinions on LBS have come up in this thread. Thinking right now: I'm lucky to have two.

--K

veganbikes

Here here well spoken!

For the single person, yes it is a super quick job, it is just one phone call, one email, one small part...you name it but none of them see the backside where it is 600 super quick jobs (at least at our peak we were at or above that number), 5 phone calls at once (if not more), 100s of emails a day and no availability on a lot of parts. Nobody sees that other side and they didn't want to.

A lot of people were stuck inside with people they only mildly like for short periods but if they blow up at them, it won't be a good living environment so let's go down to the LBS and harass and attack them. A lot of these people just needed to get out of the house but forgot how to interact with other humans and instead of going to therapy or meditating or smoking the whacky weeds or whatever people do to calm down they just go crazy at the shop throwing a big ole' tantrum for all to see or they do it on the phone. I had enough times where I had to tell people to leave right away with no help because they decided to fight with my staff or with each other for mundane stuff usually. It was absolutely ridiculous. Luckily the customer fights have pretty much faded away but their are still plenty of people who are the king of England and refuse to wait.

Luckily I have had some nice customers that are just a joy to be around and will sometimes tip or at least are friendly and understanding to some degree and I wish everyone could learn to be like that.

If I had to do this all again and shooting myself wasn't an option I would have a big tall imposing scary figure standing by the door and put a sign outside saying be nice, be kind, be patient and wear a damn mask or be literally thrown out by this guy/gal with an arrow pointing to him or her (or someone non-binary is fine too).

veganbikes

Ok, 5 minute job on top of at least in my shops case about 600+ other quick jobs and easy fixes in addition to having to answer phones build 250 bikes in as little time as possible (granted that stopped after all the distributors were sold out), answer emails, keep the shop clean, help customers on the line and do various other tasks to keep the shop going.

It must be so nice in your small world.

Amt0571

That's not my problem. Sorry.

But it probably explains why everything I had done at a bike shop seemed like it was done in a hurry and I had to do it again properly.

veganbikes

No it is just something you don't understand. You wouldn't necessarily understand because you aren't on the other side of it. At least at my shop we try not to rush we try to get it done right the first time but like all humans we make mistakes or customers are used to a brake working properly or the fact they actually have to clean and maintain their bikes or in many cases that a flat can happen again and again for various different reasons.

justslow

I gotta' put in a good word for my LBS - Bayview Bikes on Whidbey Island, WA. Small shop but great, friendly service. Every time I've taken a bike to them, they've serviced it faster, better and cheaper than expected, including some free work (I was happy to stuff their tip jar). They fine-tuned both of my bikes and their adjustments made a surprising difference.

During the pandemic, they allow no customers in the small shop but they meet you at the door wearing a mask only if you're wearing one too. No mask no service. They can't see my smile under my mask, so I give'em a thumbs up and a nod.

https://www.bayviewbikes.com/

rubiksoval

I worked in three different bike shops through and right after college. I never turned down an actual 5 minute job (rear derailleur adjustment, change a flat, replace a pulley, whatever) regardless of how many repairs and bikes to build I still had left. Yes, there's always a million other things to do, but that's the case in any profession (try keeping a room full of English-learner kindergartners in their very first week of school socially distant, masks on, and learning... redefines chaos!)

And sure, it's not an excuse, it's just the way things are. But that's kind of the point. Things being "so nice in your small world" kind of forgets the issue of you being a customer-driven business. So your target audience then, is likely not some of us in this thread who have the ability, time, and expertise to take care of our own technical issues, but that doesn't really negate that singular issue. If most of your customers accept however, then that's all that matters.

Psimet explains things very well and seems to have a wonderful balance of expectations, reality, and keeping things moving in regards to things that can be immediately addressed or not. His is not the norm, in my experience, however.

This is more the norm, in my experience. Always blaming everyone else for not understanding something (or assuming you don't understand something, and trying to take advantage of that) or not doing something with their bike. And this is a part of what's so irritating about it all, and a good part of why I don't go to bike shops.

veganbikes

See I don't think you get it either as you haven't been in the shop during this pandemic. It is quite a different thing then any of us are used to. If we just took in all the 5 minute jobs and did them all on the spot at the time we wouldn't be able to do anything else and wouldn't be able to help the other customers and answer phones and do the many other tasks required.

I did say someone didn't understand, of course I said that because this is such an unprecedented time, something that most people don't get unless they have been on our side of it. This isn't just a little rush this was a constant rush every single day for months and months and months but we had to take a lot of extra precautions to keep ourselves and our customers safe, we had to train new staff rather quickly and deal with massive supply issues. Spring and Summer are usually quite brisk for us but this was 5 summers packed into one and put into turbo mode.

It is not as if you did something wrong with your bike it is that you didn't go through the pandemic working in a shop. The attitude of both you and the previous poster was like so what I don't care my bike is most important and they should have just done it right then and there and it doesn't matter what else is going on. That is the problem here, it is the lack of caring and understanding of the situation.

Psimet2001 

It's a hairy business - the issue has never been the 5 minute job. It's the 5 other 5 minute jobs that show up while you're still trying to do the first 5 minute job. Each complete with their 6-13 minute explanation and backstory.

Interrupted of course by the phone every 5 minutes asking for a a full quote and diagnosis ...of their 5 minute job.

There's been more than once this year where I have had 5 or 6 5-minute jobs all at once with all of them waiting and staring at me. Get one done and 2 more come in.

Most people understand as long as you communicate and then they see for themselves how it is physically impossible to get the 5 minute job done in 5 minutes.

Did have one customer leaving me with the desire to lock the door and destroy everything in the shop. Walked in at 4 when we close at 5:30. Customers in front of him and waiting. Drops bike off for tuneup. Fills out the info. "I'll be back in about an hour."
"Yeah lead time on tune-ups is 7-10 days. You're going to have to drop it off."
"I can't wait that long."
"I can see about trying to get it done in 3-4 days but that's the best I can do. You're more than welcome to try somewhere else but I think you'll find they are all in the 2-3 week range right now."
"OK I'll leave it."

Next day, "Yeah I'm going to be by to pick up my bike in 20 minutes."
"Ok but it's not done."
"Why isn't it done yet?"
"I explained there is a wait. I will call you when it's done. If you haven't heard from me then it's not done."

Next day - same thing.

3rd day shows up while I am working on another bike for a customer who waited. "YO BRO! THIS IS RIDICULOUS! WHY ISN'T IT DONE?! JUST GIVE ME MY BIKE BACK BRO!" in the way people make a scene in order to get service right then.

I went and grabbed his bike, walked past him with it and left it outside for him. Came back in, grabbed his ticket it and tore it up. "Sorry we can't get it done in the timeframe you prefer. Best of luck getting it repaired." He had to pick his jaw up off the floor in order to leave.

I honestly think he thought that tactic would work. When he left the customer that I was doing work for said, "man that guy's an a-h*$e". and then left me a $20 tip when I was done with his repair.

I understand how as a customer someone might feel like, "well that's not my problem. I am a customer and you need to meet my expectation or someone else will." It's a part of that "the customer is always right" artificial culture we created in this country. It's just a sentiment that is being crushed nowadays. More and more people are starting to understand what realistic expectations are in order to work with and support the small businesses in their community. They are starting to understand that the demands for immediate and inexpensive service can only come as a result of large amounts of capital investment you can only get with a national corporation that then is more focused on throughput than care, quality, and service to the local community. We reap what we sow and most of the older people in this country are starting to shift the focus back on to community owned businesses. Problem is that those large corporate models just don't scale in this industry. There is just simply not enough margin capability in the entire segment. If you even remotely doubt it look at what happened with Performance Bike.

Sy Reene

How did the pandemic create so many 5-minute jobs?

rubiksoval

I'm not sure why you think that's my attitude. I didn't walk into your shop (or any shop) with my bike and expect anything. Nor would I.

Again, you're switching things around and blaming everyone else. This has nothing to do with my caring or my understanding, of which I have multitudes of both. It has to do with wise-crack rebuttals and general disdain for basic customer service. As a customer, I take that into consideration when conducting business (not just in regards to cycling, but in anything). That's the actual problem, here, and has been for the two decades I've been around bikes and shops.

veganbikes

Everyone brought their bikes out of the basement and garage to get fixed because it was all they could do.

It actually has a big part in it. This was not business as usual this year through the pandemic. There is no disdain for customer service there is a disdain for people who think they are more important than the others in line and the others who came before them. You could be around 6 decades and nothing would quite prepare you for what happened this year (except maybe the 70s bike boom but even then it wasn't production issues and a virus going down).

I am not saying customer should slag off but more that people went crazy and demanded they are more important than all the other customers. The idea that because they believe their job is a quick fix they should jump to the front of the line. That is the problem here. People thinking "but it's just one little job" instead of thinking more holistically and saying ok I can wait.

You may not turn down a quick job normally nor should you if you can get it done but when you have person after person after person after person after person...with the same quick job and you already have more bikes than you can handle plus many more to get built so you can help the throngs of people trying to buy a bike come in you can't. I am sorry you just can't people sometimes need to wait and relax.

guachi

The LBS nearest to me sells Treks and it's where I bought my bike in 2019. I haven't been there since April when my wife bought her e-bike. We went back a few days ago because a screw had worked loose on her front fender and fallen off and the fender was banging on the wheel.

The store had about a dozen new bikes on the floor for sale. About 8 e-bikes and 4 regular bikes. And all four of those were small sizes (as low as a 44). There were dozens and dozens of bikes on the floor, many of them in sad shape, in for service work. It was crazy.

It's not that they aren't selling bikes. There were bike boxes piled outside the store. It's just that everything they get is sold instantly. I'm not certain how any customer knows what to buy as there wasn't anything you could try out.

Amt0571

I understand you side. But as I said that's not my problem. I'm sure that there are lots of unemployed people wishing they had a job and help. In any case I've had this happen without the need of a global pandemic.

And it doesn't happen only with LBS. 20 years ago I learned how to build a computer because I got tired of shops doing botched jobs.

I can see the good things too: a few months ago, I've had a stuck pedal that I couldn't remove from the cranks. My vise broke when trying, and the LBS managed to remove it at a price more than reasonble. But in my experience, this is the exception, not the rule.

Kimmo 

Curious about this one; what's the deal?

Kimmo 

Oh ****. Missed that till now D:

Lemond1985

Unexplained fires. Currently being litigated, can't comment at this time.

Psimet2001 

Even with a wolf tooth road link for the capactity the rear derailleur isn't capable of wrapping the tooth differences. Leads to chains that are too long. They literally sag on when in the small chainring when you get down to the last 2-4 cogs.

There's a reason there's a stated wrap capacity and max cog with rear derailleurs. For the life of me I don't know how Wolf Tooth hasn't had the ever loving geebus sued out of them.