Electronic Shifting - What's the Point?
10-21-20, 02:07 PM
#101
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The front derailleur trim sounds nice. But I will not spend the money on electronic shifting any time soon. My reasons:
1. The price is outrageous for the small benefit received. I realize that a lot of cycling components are like this, however. And I judge no one else for how they allocate their cycling dollars.
2. I am a former shop mechanic, and don’t really have an issue with derailleur adjustment. I make sure it’s set up correctly the first time, and then maybe a quarter turn of a barrel adjuster every time cable slack becomes an issue. I have an 18-year-old bike that has never gone out of adjustment, other than minor cable slackening.
3. I have never had a shift cable snap in the newer-style “brifters”, with cable routing under the tape. But I have only had two bikes with this style of shift lever (105 5800 and Ultegra R8000). Perhaps the problem has been solved. Or maybe I just jinxed myself!
4. Adding a low voltage DC electrical system is another layer of complexity that I don’t want to deal with as a home mechanic. And I can see component obsolescence being a larger issue over the long haul.
1. The price is outrageous for the small benefit received. I realize that a lot of cycling components are like this, however. And I judge no one else for how they allocate their cycling dollars.
2. I am a former shop mechanic, and don’t really have an issue with derailleur adjustment. I make sure it’s set up correctly the first time, and then maybe a quarter turn of a barrel adjuster every time cable slack becomes an issue. I have an 18-year-old bike that has never gone out of adjustment, other than minor cable slackening.
3. I have never had a shift cable snap in the newer-style “brifters”, with cable routing under the tape. But I have only had two bikes with this style of shift lever (105 5800 and Ultegra R8000). Perhaps the problem has been solved. Or maybe I just jinxed myself!
4. Adding a low voltage DC electrical system is another layer of complexity that I don’t want to deal with as a home mechanic. And I can see component obsolescence being a larger issue over the long haul.
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10-21-20, 03:00 PM
#102
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With Di2, the levers are just signal senders. They don’t house any of the brains. Because of this, 10speed shifters are compatible with 11speed. So to move to 11 speed would require you to purchase a derailleur front and rear, chain and cassette.
10-21-20, 03:20 PM
#103
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10-21-20, 03:26 PM
#104
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For some reason, Shimano opted to preserve backwards compatibility of road derailer pull from 6s through to 10s, and this means the small diameter of the cable spool in the shifter causes fatigue.
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10-21-20, 03:57 PM
#105
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When a battery is old, it can happen than it runs from apparently full to flat in a few hours instead of 1000 miles or whatever the Di2 battery lasts. Even if you just charged it. Batteries degrade over time.
But that's not the only possible failure. Electrical contacts, when they age, they tend to fail. Anyone who has messed up with old computers has surely encountered issues when a computer doesn't detect a RAM module or a graphics card, and you remove it, mount it again and it works... for a few days / weeks.
Then there's the motors, which will wear down with time / vibration, and you can't see to inspect their current state. Who knows where they're going to fail?
Maybe you replace your bakes on a yearly basis and don't care about that. I tend to keep my bikes for at least 10 years, and I definitely wouldn't like having to call someone to pick me up because a derailleur has gone haywire in the middle of nowhere and I can't climb with whatever gear it has decided to stick to.
I mostly ride alone and like being self-sufficient. I can't account for everything, but I'd like not to introduce additional things that can go irreparably wrong in my rides. It's extremely strange for a mechanical derailleur or shifter to break catastrophically unless you fall and hit them with something.
But that's not the only possible failure. Electrical contacts, when they age, they tend to fail. Anyone who has messed up with old computers has surely encountered issues when a computer doesn't detect a RAM module or a graphics card, and you remove it, mount it again and it works... for a few days / weeks.
Then there's the motors, which will wear down with time / vibration, and you can't see to inspect their current state. Who knows where they're going to fail?
Maybe you replace your bakes on a yearly basis and don't care about that. I tend to keep my bikes for at least 10 years, and I definitely wouldn't like having to call someone to pick me up because a derailleur has gone haywire in the middle of nowhere and I can't climb with whatever gear it has decided to stick to.
I mostly ride alone and like being self-sufficient. I can't account for everything, but I'd like not to introduce additional things that can go irreparably wrong in my rides. It's extremely strange for a mechanical derailleur or shifter to break catastrophically unless you fall and hit them with something.
10-21-20, 04:00 PM
#107
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10-21-20, 04:05 PM
#108
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10-21-20, 04:48 PM
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I don't have electronic shifting, but the method for shifting with the etap seems like a real innovation to me.
SRAM eTap: Press the right button for a harder gear, the left button for an easier gear, and both for a front shift.
SRAM eTap: Press the right button for a harder gear, the left button for an easier gear, and both for a front shift.
10-21-20, 05:02 PM
#110
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So does pressing both make it easier or harder?
10-21-20, 05:04 PM
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I'd prefer to have control of the bike with one hand, and I'm not disabled. Di2 gives you almost any option you like out of the box; Etap you only get blips, as an option.
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Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
List of US/Canada bike co-ops ~~~ Global list
Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
List of US/Canada bike co-ops ~~~ Global list
10-21-20, 05:07 PM
#112
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Care to share, or is that secret sauce?
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Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
List of US/Canada bike co-ops ~~~ Global list
Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
List of US/Canada bike co-ops ~~~ Global list
10-21-20, 05:21 PM
#114
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I'm curious what kind of experience the people who are so down on electronic shifting have with it.
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10-21-20, 05:24 PM
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Shift gears on Toyota's bike with your mind alone
10-21-20, 05:29 PM
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10-21-20, 06:19 PM
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It makes a lot of sense for TT bikes in my opinion. I'm about to upgrade my TT bike to etap aero. I have two road bikes that I don't plan on switching from mechanical, not worth the cost to me.
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10-21-20, 06:25 PM
#118
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It was a legit gamechanger for me on TT - without being able to shift from the brake levers I was never able to get comfortable enough to learn how to really ride one.
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10-21-20, 06:26 PM
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10-21-20, 06:55 PM
#120
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Sure auto trim sounds great, but nothing new. Suntour had it in the early 80s with some of their downtube shifters. Trimming the front isn’t inherently difficult or something that’s constantly needed so if that’s a major advantage I’ll save my $$
10-21-20, 07:04 PM
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10-21-20, 07:13 PM
#122
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I went with Di2 on my Domane and found that I really, really like it. I was also someone that wondered what the point was when it first came out, but I am also typically someone that lets the early adopters pay the price of the early editions and I just watch to see how it works and see if it will be around in the future. I have 6800 Mechanical on my Emonda ALR, but I would seriously consider running eTap AXS on it as I have no desire to alter the frame to run internal wires.
10-22-20, 08:02 AM
#123
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SRAM had some problem with guides. As far as I know, other brakes are not affected. I can attest my hydraulic Rival brakes work well when it's hot.
We can talk about Shimano if you want, who have been unable to fix their brifters that get frayed cables in a couple of thousand miles.
I mean, nobody's perfect...
We can talk about Shimano if you want, who have been unable to fix their brifters that get frayed cables in a couple of thousand miles.
I mean, nobody's perfect...
10-22-20, 08:04 AM
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10-22-20, 08:21 AM
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I certainly wouldn't shy away from it if the price disparity was low for a similarly spec'd bike. My bikes are ancient by todays standards - 11sp, mechanical, rim brake, tubed tires. Something more modern with tubeless, disc and possibly electronic shifting does sound nice.
I had the chance to get one from our bike shop sponsor and buy it at cost EOY but I didn't want to commit to that level of racing and participation, so instead I went for a lower tier that involved free clothing and race reimbursement but no bike. With the pandemic and racing cancelled in SCNCA in March I wouldn't have had to fulfill those requirements, damn. Of course no one could have expected or wanted this.
I had the chance to get one from our bike shop sponsor and buy it at cost EOY but I didn't want to commit to that level of racing and participation, so instead I went for a lower tier that involved free clothing and race reimbursement but no bike. With the pandemic and racing cancelled in SCNCA in March I wouldn't have had to fulfill those requirements, damn. Of course no one could have expected or wanted this.
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