bargainguy

I picked this up yesterday, and I've never seen another one like it. There is some web info for a Sanwa 700 mixte, but I couldn't even find a pic of a mens 700 frame. So I'm asking the good folks here for help.

What intrigued me was the tubeset, Tange (Champion) #2. That, combined with a decent all-Japanese early 80's component mix - SunTour ARx, Sugino GT crank, Dia-Compe sidepulls, Araya rims on Sanshin hubs - made it too tempting to pass up.

Now here's what I know about Sanwa. Japanese manufacturer who made frames mostly in hi-ten steel and occasionally 4130. Certainly not bad bikes but not much to write home about.

My LBS used to be a Manta dealer. There was a dealer on the other side of town who was a Sanwa dealer. According to my LBS owner, these two brands produced bikes that were identical except for decals and badging, so these two dealers were selling the same bikes for the most part. The Sanwa dealer on the other side of town is still in business and kind of an odd duck. They still have NOS Sanwa bikes as well as NOS Chimo bikes, and they're asking a pretty penny (think north of $300 USD) for those mostly hi-ten bikes.

I'm not worried about value here, as I know what I can get for a properly refurb'd road bike of this era. I'm just looking for more information on the 700 model.

Thanks in advance!

T-Mar

SunTour ARx puts this 1982-1986, as do the top mount shifters. Tange #2 is solid mid-range though the components, while respectable, would probably bring this down to lower mid-range. It appears to be aimed at the recreational touring market, as opposed to the sports market, based on the 27" wheelset, dropout eyelets and relatively long chainstays.

While Sanwa was a manufacturer, they failed to trademark the name in the USA, which was done by Wisconsin Cycle Supply in the very late 1970s. Consequently, by this point it was marketing brand and your bicycle may have been contract manufactured, as opposed to being an actual Sanwa product. The serial number may provide some clues.

If there any chance you could get some pictures and S/N for the Chimo bicycles? I'd be very grateful.

bargainguy

Thank you, T-mar. SN on the Sanwa is K3N5704 as in the attached pic.

Now for the odd duck dealer on the other side of town with the NOS Chimos: I don't like going into that shop, as the prices are exorbitant, the tiny sales floor is cluttered beyond belief with bikes and parts, and the service experience can be completely unpredictable. The only thing I've used this shop for is packing bikes for shipment before I started doing that myself, and the last one was maybe 10 yr. ago.

However, if you PM me, I'll be happy to provide the name of that shop, contact info and what I believe the current owner's name is. Whether he would help you with more info is unknown, but from personal experience, I certainly don't think he'd like me poking around in his Chimos taking pix and possibly scratching up his 30-40 yr. old NOS bikes.

T-Mar

It was built during weeks 27-28 of 1983. That's late enough in the year that it might be a 1984 model. I don't know who the manufacturer is, but the format has tuned up on some Campania and Sekai models.

I can appreciate and respect your reluctance to approach the owner about the Chimo. It's not a problem.

bargainguy

Thanks again, T-mar. As always, you are a font of knowledge for us all.

ramzilla

Sweet looking bike in a wife or daughter friendly size. Complete with all original parts, reflectors, matching wheels. And, Tange 2 frame. You might swing $300 for that. Don't take less than $200.

bargainguy

...or for me, as it's my size.

Yes, I had exactly the same thought as far as pricing. I always scarf up nice bikes in outlier sizes whenever possible. Always a demand for well refurb'd bikes in the very smallest and largest sizes. The outlier size bikes may pop up on the market, but then the question becomes in what condition - and a little time and attention works wonders as far as resale appeal. Thanks!

bargainguy

Here's the finished product. New Fizik bar tape, Bontrager saddle, shift cables, clean & tune. What a sweet ride! I'm almost tempted not to sell it, but I have waaaay too many nice bikes already.

oddjob2

$300? Really? How many bike buyers google Sanwa?

Are you sure you aren't from Stoner Mountain?

bargainguy

Now, now, be nice....

All roads lead to Rome. One could search on: Tange, #2, Champion, Japanese, road, bike, small, frame, short, rider, Suntour, Sugino, Araya, SR, vintage, classic, lugged, butted, steel, lightweight. Wouldn't have to search on just Sanwa.

FWIW, I posted this bike at $250 today. We'll see just how interested the general public is. Worst case scenario, I drop the price or add this bike to my collection.

oddjob2

I've tried, honest bargainguy

https://www.bikeforums.net/18760479-post36.html

ramzilla

You did a great job cleaning that bike up. It really looks good. $250 sounds like a reasonable price target.

philbob57

I don't understand rating Tange #2 as 'solid midrange'. It was pretty much the equivalent of Columbus SL and one version of 531 in tube size, thickness, and strength.

In the US, Tange doesn't have the market power of Columbus, of course, but that just makes it a potential bargain, depending on the skill of the people who made the frame.

juls

Looks on par with the nishiki prestige of the same era; tange 2 and all. Sloping fork crown-excellent paint for the age-btw. Wasnt Sanwa offered through monkey wards or sears? Or was it another catalog distributer?. I like tange 2. Nice job!

bargainguy

Sold for $225 today. New owners very happy. I'm happy they're happy.

wrk101

For later information, not all Sanwa bikes are Japan. I had an early 1980s Sanwa that was made in Taiwan.

Aubergine 

IMO 225 was cheap. I have a Centurion with Tange 2 and it is a sweet, sweet ride.

T-Mar

The statement must be looked at in the context of the era. While Tange #2 is roughly the equivalent of SL or 531, in 1984 it was Tange's 3rd ranked tubeset, behind Prestige and Tange #1. Almost all the high end Japanese bicycles with Superbe Pro or Dura-Ace were using Prestige or Tange #1. Since Tange #2 was less expensive than SL and 531, it could be marketed on bicycles at a lower price point. Typically, during this era, Tange #2 was spec'd on 105, Cyclone and New 600EX equipped bicycles. As such, they were typically under $500 US, which I would consider mid-range for the era.

bargainguy

Updating this thread as I came across a similar Sanwa this week, so thought I'd post for anyone interested.

Although the Sanwa 400 shown here is a step down from the 700 - no RD hanger tab, and straight gauge Tange #5 instead of butted #2 - the frames are remarkably similar in appearance, and the components are similar as well.

SN# is also similar to the 700, so it's assumed it was made around the same time frame.

Actually quite a nice ride for what it is. I'm beginning to wonder if the 400 and 700 came from a different factory than the lower-end Sanwas which are so plentiful around here. Next time I'm in my LBS, I'll ask if they know anything about where these frames originated.

altenwrencher

Wasnt Sanwa offered through monkey wards or sears? Or was it another catalog distributer?

...I worked at Rainbow Jersey in Milwaukee and Janus in Appleton, WI during the 1970s and 1980s. We sold Sanwa at both. They were imported by Wisconsin Cycle of Sheboygan and as far as I know Sanwa was their private label. Wisconsin Cycle had another private label called Timberlin, because of trademark problems had they spelled it Timberline.

bargainguy

I believe it was Wards. The Timberline bikes are definitely a step down, as I see a boatload of 'em around here - I'm working on an Urban Express at the moment. Decent bikes but nothing exciting, typically hi-ten frames, so maybe Sanwa was the upscale line for WCS.

BTW, don't know if you heard Jerry is selling Rainbow Jersey and retiring. Was there a couple months ago for the first day of the going-out-of-business sale. Nothing vintage except a Rainbow Jersey-branded 531 steel racer, no doubt built by Jerry's brother, Alan Pearce. I have one of Alan's frames, and asked Jerry about it last year. Apparently he only built about 50 frames before hanging up the torch. Excellent quality, tho.

bikemig 

+ 1, that's what I was thinking as well. This is a fine tubing set from a not well known manufacturer and lower middle range components. Fully worth whatever @bargainguy thinks he can get, : )

daleb116

Wow! I think I had the same model, or at least a Sanwa of the same color and style from the mid-80's. It was pretty solid.

broadwayjose

I have the same exact bicycle. It’s an awesome ride for those of us not trying to act like the pros. Love this bicycle

broadwayjose

Beautiful