Being Able to Bike to Work Makes People Happy
05-25-18, 04:22 AM
#26
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So...I gather actually having a job to bike to would help...
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05-25-18, 04:23 AM
#27
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Sorry for the bad edit---no time, i had to get ready for work.
I am Not opposed to biking to work. What I am protesting here is the popularization of bad "science" which is used to make points using dishonest distortions, preying on many people's blind acceptance of anything labeled "Science."
I am Not opposed to biking to work. What I am protesting here is the popularization of bad "science" which is used to make points using dishonest distortions, preying on many people's blind acceptance of anything labeled "Science."
05-25-18, 04:40 AM
#29
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"People Who Cycle to Work Are Dangerously Unbalanced"
Despite the dirt, difficulty, and danger, they claim they are happier…
However, when you talk to them, all you hear are tales of being run off the road by uncaring drivers, dodging insults and occasionally projectiles (the fast-food beverage seems to be the motorists' missile of choice) and the need for dedicated infrastructure and diligent law enforcement, because in its current form, biking to work is (by their on estimation) insanely dangerous.
Add to that the weather---extremes of heat and cold, rain, snow in some places---and the lack of facilities at most job sites for securing their bikes and for washing and changing into work clothes ... one has to wonder how these people define "happiness>" A masochist getting whipped to death might be ecstatically happy until the end comes, after all .... perhaps
But what the science seems to say is that there is a class of people with mis-wired brains or malfunctioning limbic systems, who can clearly (and in Great detail---some threads on cycling forums run to a dozen pages of complaints on the smallest aspect of riding in traffic) and precisely delineate all the reasons why cycling to work is a terrible idea, full of danger and difficulty and frustration and pollution, yet who claim, when asked, that riding to work is the best part of the day.
At least this seems to leave the victims highly functional---most seem to do a good job at work once they finally get there (and after they finish recounting that day's tales of nearly being hit by cars and trucks, while riding on decaying pavement in dangerous traffic while breathing exhaust and dodging missiles, while trying to mop up the sweat which is mixing with the grit and road grime covering their bodies.)
So, go a ahead an hire the cycle-commuter. He or she will potentially be a source of amusement and but will also probably be a solid worker. But be ready for the endless complaints about cycling to work.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Same data, different take on the tone of the article.
Despite the dirt, difficulty, and danger, they claim they are happier…
However, when you talk to them, all you hear are tales of being run off the road by uncaring drivers, dodging insults and occasionally projectiles (the fast-food beverage seems to be the motorists' missile of choice) and the need for dedicated infrastructure and diligent law enforcement, because in its current form, biking to work is (by their on estimation) insanely dangerous.
Add to that the weather---extremes of heat and cold, rain, snow in some places---and the lack of facilities at most job sites for securing their bikes and for washing and changing into work clothes ... one has to wonder how these people define "happiness>" A masochist getting whipped to death might be ecstatically happy until the end comes, after all .... perhaps
But what the science seems to say is that there is a class of people with mis-wired brains or malfunctioning limbic systems, who can clearly (and in Great detail---some threads on cycling forums run to a dozen pages of complaints on the smallest aspect of riding in traffic) and precisely delineate all the reasons why cycling to work is a terrible idea, full of danger and difficulty and frustration and pollution, yet who claim, when asked, that riding to work is the best part of the day.
At least this seems to leave the victims highly functional---most seem to do a good job at work once they finally get there (and after they finish recounting that day's tales of nearly being hit by cars and trucks, while riding on decaying pavement in dangerous traffic while breathing exhaust and dodging missiles, while trying to mop up the sweat which is mixing with the grit and road grime covering their bodies.)
So, go a ahead an hire the cycle-commuter. He or she will potentially be a source of amusement and but will also probably be a solid worker. But be ready for the endless complaints about cycling to work.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Same data, different take on the tone of the article.
Frankly, I have posted that I would not be inclined to encourage, unless by example (nor discourage) someone to cycle-commute [or cycle in general], but if they so chose, I would freely and gladly give any advice...I would not want the recriminations of a personal endorsement if something bad happened….
FWIW, I’m not advocatin’ against, just sayin’
FWIW, I’m not advocatin’ against, just sayin’
Last edited by Jim from Boston; 05-25-18 at 05:22 AM.
05-25-18, 04:50 AM
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On a couple of previous LCF threads you have dissed urban (and Car Free) living, and I have replied to the contrary. If I may ask, where (in general) is your rural paradise?
Regarding Amtrak, here in the Northeast we have Business Class that offers a serene travel experience, not unlike comparing First Class airline travel to Economy Class. In fact we have a luxurious Limo Liner bus service for an exclusively First Class ride from Boston to New York.
Last edited by Jim from Boston; 05-25-18 at 04:55 AM.
05-25-18, 05:24 AM
#31
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That's funny, Mr. Jim from Boston—I was going to mention that exact quote in a later post
I also wouldn’t advocate for biking to work, or biking in an urban environment at all, or even riding a bike—though I won’t shut up about tips, training, and endless boring ideas about how to do it, for people who make the choice on their own.
I see “science” (not Science) has become a religion for a lot of people—a source of unerring fact and wisdom, and the rules by which to live the Right Life.
Here in LCF, for a lot of posters, cycling and not driving has become a religion. That’s fine, as each of us must follow his or her own path. It is the proselytizing I find objectionable.
I also don’t find mass transit to be a bad thing, having used it in various cities in a few different nations. It isn’t necessarily uncomfortable—and anyone who wants to know discomfort … ride hard in 95 degree heat and 95 percent humidity for several miles.
Then, stop at a high-traffic intersection, where the sun has been baking the pavement all day, and where cars have been stopped for a minute or two at frequent intervals, radiating their heat into the pavement.
The heat of your own body, which while moving is dissipated by the breeze of your passage, suddenly has nowhere to go, while the heat radiating up from the pavement makes it almost literally a kind of barbeque grill—a flat-top cooking surface radiating up heat at about 150 degrees.
Basically, exercise hard in a sauna and rest on a stove …. That is the reality of summer bike-commuting in many parts of the country.
Worth it in my opinion—but then, I have already expressed my comments about the sanity of cyclo-commuters.
On the other hand, mass transit can be an adventure—or at the very least, time to let someone else chauffeur you around.
People whine about buses and trains … but how many consider airplanes to be “mass transit”? I have done a lot of flying as well, and I can tell you that riding a city bus, or even a Russian mini-van taxi, is a lot less stressful than flying. And when flying, one is packed in just as tightly with the same random collection of people …. Yet because it costs more to be treated so badly, nobody ever makes the comparison.
As for Amtrak and trains in general—in the Washington D.C. area trains are a lot more spacious and comfortable than airplanes, and easier to board—and on some trains you can walk right on with your bicycle. You cannot even bring a tube of toothpaste on a plane.
Anyway … I think the question here is … Do You Want To?
People who ride trains and buses tend to accept the compromises. People who drive cars or ride bikes tend to accept the compromises. And it seems most people never want to have to defend their own choices, so they attack other choices---“See all the compromises you have to make?”
Nothin used to fill my heart with sick anti-social joy like cruising past packed rush-hour traffic and seeing every single person scowling---me in 95-degree heat and 95 percent humidity, sweating gallons, plastered with bugs, with aching legs, and loving life, they in their air-conditioned lounge chairs listening to their favorite radio station or music, sipping a beverage of choice, and hating everything.
About the only joy those folks got was scorning me, … “Look at that fool on his bike, out in the heat, smiling like an idiot.”
Laughing at you, sir or madam.
Frankly, I have posted that I would not be inclined to encourage, unless by example (nor discourage) someone to cycle-commute [or cycle in general], but if they so chose, I would freely and gladly give any advice...I would not want the recriminations of a personal endorsement if something bad happened….
I see “science” (not Science) has become a religion for a lot of people—a source of unerring fact and wisdom, and the rules by which to live the Right Life.
Here in LCF, for a lot of posters, cycling and not driving has become a religion. That’s fine, as each of us must follow his or her own path. It is the proselytizing I find objectionable.
I also don’t find mass transit to be a bad thing, having used it in various cities in a few different nations. It isn’t necessarily uncomfortable—and anyone who wants to know discomfort … ride hard in 95 degree heat and 95 percent humidity for several miles.
Then, stop at a high-traffic intersection, where the sun has been baking the pavement all day, and where cars have been stopped for a minute or two at frequent intervals, radiating their heat into the pavement.
The heat of your own body, which while moving is dissipated by the breeze of your passage, suddenly has nowhere to go, while the heat radiating up from the pavement makes it almost literally a kind of barbeque grill—a flat-top cooking surface radiating up heat at about 150 degrees.
Basically, exercise hard in a sauna and rest on a stove …. That is the reality of summer bike-commuting in many parts of the country.
Worth it in my opinion—but then, I have already expressed my comments about the sanity of cyclo-commuters.
On the other hand, mass transit can be an adventure—or at the very least, time to let someone else chauffeur you around.
People whine about buses and trains … but how many consider airplanes to be “mass transit”? I have done a lot of flying as well, and I can tell you that riding a city bus, or even a Russian mini-van taxi, is a lot less stressful than flying. And when flying, one is packed in just as tightly with the same random collection of people …. Yet because it costs more to be treated so badly, nobody ever makes the comparison.
As for Amtrak and trains in general—in the Washington D.C. area trains are a lot more spacious and comfortable than airplanes, and easier to board—and on some trains you can walk right on with your bicycle. You cannot even bring a tube of toothpaste on a plane.
Anyway … I think the question here is … Do You Want To?
People who ride trains and buses tend to accept the compromises. People who drive cars or ride bikes tend to accept the compromises. And it seems most people never want to have to defend their own choices, so they attack other choices---“See all the compromises you have to make?”
Nothin used to fill my heart with sick anti-social joy like cruising past packed rush-hour traffic and seeing every single person scowling---me in 95-degree heat and 95 percent humidity, sweating gallons, plastered with bugs, with aching legs, and loving life, they in their air-conditioned lounge chairs listening to their favorite radio station or music, sipping a beverage of choice, and hating everything.
About the only joy those folks got was scorning me, … “Look at that fool on his bike, out in the heat, smiling like an idiot.”
Laughing at you, sir or madam.
05-25-18, 06:24 AM
#32
Prefers Cicero
Still one has to wonder if the study had some kind of, oh what shall we say, agenda? If cycling indeed made people happier why is it the least popular form of commuting in the last census? It isn't even close, more people walked, took a taxi or worked from home. They must have had to search far and wide to find happy cyclists when they are such a small portion of the pool? https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-a...6-census-data/
.
Last edited by cooker; 05-25-18 at 06:29 AM.
05-25-18, 07:53 AM
#33
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Nice cheap shot.
I stated my agenda, and so did Mobile155---calling out bad journalism and cheap pseudo-science.
The article---"We measured some stuff. We don't have a clue what any of it means".
It isn't even "science," it is poll-taking ... because there is no standard definition of "happy" and no corresponding set of physiological markers .... so "happy" is actually impossible to measure, and if you cannot measure it, it is not science. That is one of the chief limitations of science ... and also one of its strengths.
The original post---"See? I told you!" Someone who has been submerged in the Kool-Aid until oxygen starvation has had its effects, sees validation in the motion of clouds and the grass waving in the breeze.
If people have a problem with some posters urging other posters to discuss things that are not lies or misunderstandings, willful or no .... whose "agenda" would oppose that?
I stated my agenda, and so did Mobile155---calling out bad journalism and cheap pseudo-science.
The article---"We measured some stuff. We don't have a clue what any of it means".
It isn't even "science," it is poll-taking ... because there is no standard definition of "happy" and no corresponding set of physiological markers .... so "happy" is actually impossible to measure, and if you cannot measure it, it is not science. That is one of the chief limitations of science ... and also one of its strengths.
The original post---"See? I told you!" Someone who has been submerged in the Kool-Aid until oxygen starvation has had its effects, sees validation in the motion of clouds and the grass waving in the breeze.
If people have a problem with some posters urging other posters to discuss things that are not lies or misunderstandings, willful or no .... whose "agenda" would oppose that?
05-25-18, 09:25 AM
#34
Prefers Cicero
Nice cheap shot.
I stated my agenda, and so did Mobile155---calling out bad journalism and cheap pseudo-science.
The article---"We measured some stuff. We don't have a clue what any of it means".
It isn't even "science," it is poll-taking ... because there is no standard definition of "happy" and no corresponding set of physiological markers .... so "happy" is actually impossible to measure, and if you cannot measure it, it is not science. That is one of the chief limitations of science ... and also one of its strengths.
The original post---"See? I told you!" Someone who has been submerged in the Kool-Aid until oxygen starvation has had its effects, sees validation in the motion of clouds and the grass waving in the breeze.
If people have a problem with some posters urging other posters to discuss things that are not lies or misunderstandings, willful or no .... whose "agenda" would oppose that?
I stated my agenda, and so did Mobile155---calling out bad journalism and cheap pseudo-science.
The article---"We measured some stuff. We don't have a clue what any of it means".
It isn't even "science," it is poll-taking ... because there is no standard definition of "happy" and no corresponding set of physiological markers .... so "happy" is actually impossible to measure, and if you cannot measure it, it is not science. That is one of the chief limitations of science ... and also one of its strengths.
The original post---"See? I told you!" Someone who has been submerged in the Kool-Aid until oxygen starvation has had its effects, sees validation in the motion of clouds and the grass waving in the breeze.
If people have a problem with some posters urging other posters to discuss things that are not lies or misunderstandings, willful or no .... whose "agenda" would oppose that?
05-25-18, 10:46 AM
#35
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As mentioned, they didn't claim it was the cyclists themselves who accounted for the community well-being. It may be that attributes of the community that facilitate cycling also facilitate well-being. Thus people cycling to work may be an indicator of those other unmeasured factors and/ or itself a factor in community well-being. As for an agenda, they are social scientists studying community well-being to try to understand it and they found what they found. Had they found that people who live in gated mountain communities are also happy ( which certainly might be true) l doubt you'd be questioning their motives, so perhaps it's your agenda that's in play here .
.Like I said earlier to impress me they would have to explain why cycling to work makes people happy but they don't tend to ride bikes to work. Not according to an actual count actual of people commuting to work in the U.S. Call me skeptical.
05-25-18, 11:23 AM
#36
Senior Member
05-25-18, 12:30 PM
#37
Prefers Cicero
That's nonsense. I've challenged you or others over and over to back up such claims, but it's the sort of thing that "everybody knows to be true" so apparently it doesn't need documentation.
05-25-18, 12:39 PM
#38
Prefers Cicero
I could just as easily have sat in a coffee shop with friends from the local press and made the statement that Golfers are happier than commuting cyclists. I could interview 100 Golfers and 100 cyclists and ask them how happy they are playing 18 holes with a cart and beer wagon driving by every few holes and I would have a better chance of reproducing my findings on the happiness index for several test in a row.
05-25-18, 02:34 PM
#39
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Everybody thinks research is easy. Would your study include 338,846 survey participants, randomly sampled from 3,118 US counties or county equivalents, 77 pre-specified county attributes and a multi-dimensional assessment of individual US residents’ well-being, captured by the Gallup-Sharecare Well-Being Index?
05-25-18, 03:01 PM
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However, when you talk to them, all you hear are tales of being run off the road by uncaring drivers, dodging insults and occasionally projectiles (the fast-food beverage seems to be the motorists' missile of choice) and the need for dedicated infrastructure and diligent law enforcement, because in its current form, biking to work is (by their on estimation) insanely dangerous.
Add to that the weather---extremes of heat and cold, rain, snow in some places---and the lack of facilities at most job sites for securing their bikes and for washing and changing into work clothes ... one has to wonder how these people define "happiness>" A masochist getting whipped to death might be ecstatically happy until the end comes, after all .... perhaps.
And that is what this study seems to show---that people who ride their bikes to work, far from actually finding greater joy and contentment in daily life, actually suffer severe mental illness.
Not that it is bad to be a masochist---in theory. If a person truly finds joy in suffering, they that person might as well go suffer, so long s no one else is hurt. This is science--there are no value judgments here.
But what the science seems to say is that there is a class of people with mis-wired brains or malfunctioning limbic systems, who can clearly (and in Great detail---some threads on cycling forums run to a dozen pages of complaints on the smallest aspect of riding in traffic) and precisely delineate all the reasons why cycling to work is a terrible idea, full of danger and difficulty and frustration and pollution, yet who claim, when asked, that riding to work is the best part of the day.
At least this mis-wiring seems to leave the victims highly functional---most seem to do a good job at work once they finally get there (and after they finish recounting that day's tales of nearly being hit by cars and trucks, while riding on decaying pavement in dangerous traffic while breathing exhaust and dodging missiles, while trying to mop up the sweat which is mixing with the grit and road grime covering their bodies.)
So, go ahead an hire the cycle-commuter. He or she will potentially be a source of amusement and but will also probably be a solid worker. But be ready for the endless complaints about cycling to work.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Same data, different take on the tone of the article.
Add to that the weather---extremes of heat and cold, rain, snow in some places---and the lack of facilities at most job sites for securing their bikes and for washing and changing into work clothes ... one has to wonder how these people define "happiness>" A masochist getting whipped to death might be ecstatically happy until the end comes, after all .... perhaps.
And that is what this study seems to show---that people who ride their bikes to work, far from actually finding greater joy and contentment in daily life, actually suffer severe mental illness.
Not that it is bad to be a masochist---in theory. If a person truly finds joy in suffering, they that person might as well go suffer, so long s no one else is hurt. This is science--there are no value judgments here.
But what the science seems to say is that there is a class of people with mis-wired brains or malfunctioning limbic systems, who can clearly (and in Great detail---some threads on cycling forums run to a dozen pages of complaints on the smallest aspect of riding in traffic) and precisely delineate all the reasons why cycling to work is a terrible idea, full of danger and difficulty and frustration and pollution, yet who claim, when asked, that riding to work is the best part of the day.
At least this mis-wiring seems to leave the victims highly functional---most seem to do a good job at work once they finally get there (and after they finish recounting that day's tales of nearly being hit by cars and trucks, while riding on decaying pavement in dangerous traffic while breathing exhaust and dodging missiles, while trying to mop up the sweat which is mixing with the grit and road grime covering their bodies.)
So, go ahead an hire the cycle-commuter. He or she will potentially be a source of amusement and but will also probably be a solid worker. But be ready for the endless complaints about cycling to work.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Same data, different take on the tone of the article.
It could also be that places where people bike to work have lower average commuting distances, which would also mean shorter driving commutes, i.e. because of the geographical-economic situation. The study also mentioned the presence of racial/ethnic minorities, so it could be that there is less distance between affluent residential areas and jobs in places where people are happy with diversity. In places where people are unhappy with diversity, residential areas are probably farther from workplaces on average because of racially-influenced perceptions of neighbodhood safety/quality/etc.
Basically, it sounds like the study is showing that in places where there is diversity and more people choose to bike to work, for whatever reason, there is greater happiness.
05-25-18, 03:34 PM
#41
Prefers Cicero
it would include what ever it needed to if that was what was paying the bills. Unless they can define why people don’t prefer and chose transportation that makes them happy the questions of legitmacy remain. Did anyone ask for the study. Can the state they are happier because they cycle? If so am I happier by cycling 8800 miles in a year than someone who only cycles 1000? Am i happier than someone that spends the year sailing from country to country and never even sits on a bike at all? If not then it is an opinion piece.
05-25-18, 04:10 PM
#42
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AmTrak is actually quite nice. The Brompton is easy to deal with (no pre-check-in needed) and I'm using Business class to get a guaranteed seat.
I only do it 2x a week, I have an AirBnB in the hills.
Last edited by bikingbill; 05-25-18 at 04:17 PM.
05-25-18, 05:07 PM
#43
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Gallup-Sharecare sell these reports as marketing research. SRI bought them just for the name so they could call people and mine information to sell to companies like NPR. SRI said they bought the name Gallup because once people realized SRI was market research they would hang up but for Gallup they would respond to questions. So if you believe SRI is social science that is fine with me. In fact Bloomberg and Company says that Gallup can afford to lose money on public opinion polls because it can sell the data mined as consultants for numbers in the high nine figures. Did you think it was done for free? Just some FYI?
05-25-18, 05:19 PM
#44
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Do you have the Strava or Garmin link on that ride? Looks like a nice little climb but 35.4 percent doesn't sound right. I can fight up a 13 percent climb on a diamond frame but I don't think I could do over that with a bent.
05-25-18, 05:44 PM
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Never Mind I did a Ridewithgps map of all but the northern part of the ride and it is a nice little ride. Nothing needing a super low bailout ring. I have a good friend that used to live in Studio City.
05-25-18, 08:18 PM
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The Bacchetta might tip over backwards on that.
05-25-18, 09:37 PM
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You do know that would make it steeper than Eldred at 33.3 percent? Steeper than Baxter and Fargo? Dude you should join the LA Wheelmen for the Fargo hill climb. I have to paperboy Fargo with a 36x36.
I was only looking at the numbers posted. 830 feet divided by 36376 feet or 6.7 miles equals .02346223 or a 2.3 percent grade. Even the shorter section on the chart shows 6.2 percent grade. There must be some short steep jumps that don't show on your chart. My hats off to you.
I was only looking at the numbers posted. 830 feet divided by 36376 feet or 6.7 miles equals .02346223 or a 2.3 percent grade. Even the shorter section on the chart shows 6.2 percent grade. There must be some short steep jumps that don't show on your chart. My hats off to you.
05-25-18, 10:44 PM
#49
Prefers Cicero
Gallup-Sharecare sell these reports as marketing research. SRI bought them just for the name so they could call people and mine information to sell to companies like NPR. SRI said they bought the name Gallup because once people realized SRI was market research they would hang up but for Gallup they would respond to questions. So if you believe SRI is social science that is fine with me. In fact Bloomberg and Company says that Gallup can afford to lose money on public opinion polls because it can sell the data mined as consultants for numbers in the high nine figures. Did you think it was done for free? Just some FYI?
Last edited by cooker; 05-25-18 at 10:50 PM.
05-25-18, 11:08 PM
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They used two already mined sources. It was still not done for free. It was paid for up front.