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VW Passat Wagon history?

Old 09-09-19, 12:18 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
And it sounds like you would advise proactively replacing the timing chain tensioner, rather than try to protect with MBI?
I would not, it is not cheap either.

I would change oil often, not when VW recommends( every 10.000 miles), but every 3000-5000 miles, use only VW 502. oil like Castrol Edge 5w40 on Mobil 1 0w40.
I also make sure the engine oil is topped off all the time. Probably will get into a habit to check oil every time you fill car with fuel.
I would also bring the car to a VW shop and ask them to check the metal screen on the camshaft bridge, make sure it is not clogged with sludge and if it is-clean or replace it.
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Old 09-09-19, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrey View Post
I would not, it is not cheap either.
Well less than $1000 is cheap compared to loss of entire engine

We bought it from an independent VW/Audi mechanic, his recommendation was also not to do the replacement proactively, but to protect with extended warrantee. He said he had never personally encountered this failure, and that it is not nearly the most likely thing to go wrong.
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Old 09-09-19, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrey View Post
I would change oil often, not when VW recommends( every 10.000 miles), but every 3000-5000 miles, use only VW 502. oil like Castrol Edge 5w40 on Mobil 1 0w40.
I've never heard of "VW 502", is that a standards document VW publishes or something? I have for a long time been a 5Kmi oil changer, and I usually do it myself, which I guess is good because I have full control over what oil to use. Although I have heard that extended warranty companies can sometimes try to weasel out of a claim by blaming owner for improper maintenance.
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Old 09-09-19, 01:22 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
Well less than $1000 is cheap compared to loss of entire engine

He said he had never personally encountered this failure, and that it is not nearly the most likely thing to go wrong.
I hope he is right. Good luck with your new car.
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Old 09-09-19, 02:18 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
I've never heard of "VW 502", is that a standards document VW publishes or something? I have for a long time been a 5Kmi oil changer, and I usually do it myself, which I guess is good because I have full control over what oil to use. Although I have heard that extended warranty companies can sometimes try to weasel out of a claim by blaming owner for improper maintenance.
Oil standards have been upped since the last time I looked. The picture of the latest Castrol Edge 5w40 oil with newer VW standards approved and licensed specifications 505 00/505 01. Look at the back of the oil can, make sure it says at least 502 00 or higher for your engine. It used to say VW 502 00, now just 505 00/505 01
If you do your own oil changes keep the receipts and a log for the proof of ext.warranties .
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Old 09-10-19, 01:47 AM
  #56  
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When it comes to oil changes there is no one-size-fits-all. It all depends on your driving style, frequency, and environment. Still, we can generalize and that's where we get the 3-5 thousand mile range.

You can certainly go a lot further on synthetic oil if you made that choice. I'd definitely prefer the extended range it in a turbo engine. Otherwise, changing oil can become a real pain in the neck. I admire anybody that prefers to do their own oil change, but can you drain it as well as a shop with a lift?

Anyway, another advantage of using a service is cleanup, since its a lot less of an impact to the environment than with thousands of individuals doing their own oil change and not everyone following strict code for cleanup and disposal.

When dealing with a used car, and to maintain safety under warranty, I'd just keep doing whatever has been done up to this point. Its those changes, modifications, etc. that insurance companies look for and try to make an issue with should the car fail. I wouldn't give them any.
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Old 09-10-19, 07:11 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
I've never heard of "VW 502", is that a standards document VW publishes or something? I have for a long time been a 5Kmi oil changer, and I usually do it myself, which I guess is good because I have full control over what oil to use. Although I have heard that extended warranty companies can sometimes try to weasel out of a claim by blaming owner for improper maintenance.
They will try to weasel out every time to a do-it-yourselfer.

They will claim you aren't a certified "oil changer" and your homemade records aren't as accurate and legitimate as a company that logs it into a computer database.

I went though this with American Homeshield and my home AC many years ago. One time American Homeshield denied paying on a claim because I didn't have an legitimate AC company do the maintenance. So that was that, I didn't sign back up with them. That annual premium goes into my pocket and I either do the repairs myself or call someone else. Sure, it's not a car, but a car extended warranty company will likely act the same way.

Of course, if I owned American Homeshield I run the business the same way. Not every Joe Blow home mechanic is good at what they do or do they necessarily do required maintenance before a major failure.
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Old 09-10-19, 10:29 AM
  #58  
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I spent an hour last night reading through this whole thread (same engine in a Tiguan). The consensus there is very strongly in favor of proactively replacing the tensioner. Also reports of extended warranties denying claims because there is a factory bulletin. Also one report of failure as early as 30K km! That's like 18K mi. That guy was under warranty at least. But usually failure happens (if it happens) at about 100kmi.

I got a quote from AutoPOM, like $1700 for a 36K/3yr exclusionary warranty. I asked them a bunch of questions, haven't heard back yet, like how much for just Powertrain+, does the settlement and factory bulletin mean you wouldn't cover this problem, what would I as a self oil-changer have to document, would it violate the 'no towing without factory tow package' clause to add a hitch for a bike rack, etc.

We'll see what AutoPOM comes back with, but if they wouldn't cover it then they're of no use to me, and even if they do cover it I expect the MBI cost will be too high for too short of a term. I'll shop around and should be able to find an independent shop in SD that will do it for maybe like $700. I'll consider it part of the purchase price.
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Old 09-10-19, 01:11 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
. I admire anybody that prefers to do their own oil change, but can you drain it as well as a shop with a lift?
Changing your own oil isn't that hard, and if you can get the drain plug out in the driveway it's going to drain as well as on a lift if the driveway is level. I've seen and heard too many bad things about having someone else change your oil to want to go that route. I change the oil in my car, the GFs and her daughter all on the same day to minimize the mess and hassles, and doing it twice a year works fine for all of us with regards to mileage and time. The used oil goes back to a shop and gets disposed of with the rest of their oil too, so no worries about disposal beyond what you'd have if you paid them to change it for you.
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Old 09-10-19, 02:40 PM
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Agree. I always use a lot of cardboard and newspapers and I always get pretty close to my goal of 0 drops of oil on the pavement. And the oil can be handed over to my local Kragen for collection.

'Our' mechanic lost our business when he (in my opinion) bullied my wife into approving a whole new oil pan after (in my opinion) he stripped the drain plug threads, rather than much cheaper drain plug replacement options. If I change my own oil, then if the drain plug threads get stripped then I know it's my fault. Plus you hear horror stories all the time about oil-change places forgetting to tighten the drain plug and it falls out and you lose all your oil on the street and kill your engine.

Plus changing my own oil is part of what makes me feel like a Man.

(But I'm secure enough in my manhood I'm not about to attempt a DIY timing chain tensioner replacement!!)
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Old 09-10-19, 04:07 PM
  #61  
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I have gone from changing my own oil, to using oil change services, and back to changing my own oil. Same with an automatic transmission fluid*, every 30,000 miles regardless if the owners manual says the transmission doesn't need to be serviced**. Plus brake fluid flush, power steering fluid, coolant, etc.

The local oil change services by me are mostly scammers and cheaters (caught by me). So, I change oil on up to 5*** of the family cars. I get the filter and oil at the local auto parts store, pour the dirty oil into 5 gallon plastic pails with lids, and when full take the pails back to the same auto parts store to pour into their "yuge" reclaiming tank. By the way, I use only "dino" oil and change it every 5,000 miles, but I have no turbos or diesels so take that into consideration.

The upside to changing my own oil is I get to look at the cars more deeply for any other problems that may be coming soon. And something is always coming soon.

*triple drain and fill
**bunch of liars
***one car per person, basic transport for work or college

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Old 09-10-19, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
I spent an hour last night reading through this whole thread (same engine in a Tiguan). The consensus there is very strongly in favor of proactively replacing the tensioner. Also reports of extended warranties denying claims because there is a factory bulletin. Also one report of failure as early as 30K km! That's like 18K mi. That guy was under warranty at least. But usually failure happens (if it happens) at about 100kmi.

I got a quote from AutoPOM, like $1700 for a 36K/3yr exclusionary warranty. I asked them a bunch of questions, haven't heard back yet, like how much for just Powertrain+, does the settlement and factory bulletin mean you wouldn't cover this problem, what would I as a self oil-changer have to document, would it violate the 'no towing without factory tow package' clause to add a hitch for a bike rack, etc.

We'll see what AutoPOM comes back with, but if they wouldn't cover it then they're of no use to me, and even if they do cover it I expect the MBI cost will be too high for too short of a term. I'll shop around and should be able to find an independent shop in SD that will do it for maybe like $700. I'll consider it part of the purchase price.
This is a tough one. If you have the cash to basically "self insure" your cars mechanically, I'd bank the money that would go to AutoPOM and either proactively do the repair or keep the oil fresh and topped up and take your chances. That's how I look at all the automatic transmissions out there in my driveway. One of them is going to bite the dust, and either the car will be repaired $$$$ or replaced with another low end used car $$$$.

Last edited by FiftySix; 09-10-19 at 04:14 PM.
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Old 09-10-19, 06:03 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by FiftySix View Post
This is a tough one. If you have the cash to basically "self insure" your cars mechanically, I'd bank the money that would go to AutoPOM and either proactively do the repair or keep the oil fresh and topped up and take your chances. That's how I look at all the automatic transmissions out there in my driveway. One of them is going to bite the dust, and either the car will be repaired $$$$ or replaced with another low end used car $$$$.
Yeah I've basically decided to proactively repair. Hopefully if I call half a dozen independent shops around town I can find one that comes in under $800. I've got a quote for 3yr/30Kmi powertrain+ extended warranty that's I think $862. I could pay that for 3yr30Kmi peace of mind (plus any other powertrain repairs for $200 deductible), and the extended warranty expires about when the problem is most likely to occur. Not to mention the risk that the sales associate is potentially uninformed when they say that failure would even be covered -- or if I get to the point of submitting a claim the suits find a way to deny me because service bulletins make this a pre-existing condition, or for not using a dealership to change my oil, or because I didn't inspect my left-rear brake pad every alternate Thursday, or whatever.

Or I could pay about the same money, replace the tensioner, and have forever peace of mind for the only problem I'm super concerned about.

Last edited by RubeRad; 09-10-19 at 06:08 PM.
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Old 09-10-19, 06:36 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
I've never heard of "VW 502", is that a standards document VW publishes or something? I have for a long time been a 5Kmi oil changer, and I usually do it myself, which I guess is good because I have full control over what oil to use. Although I have heard that extended warranty companies can sometimes try to weasel out of a claim by blaming owner for improper maintenance.
Originally Posted by Andrey View Post
Oil standards have been upped since the last time I looked. The picture of the latest Castrol Edge 5w40 oil with newer VW standards approved and licensed specifications 505 00/505 01. Look at the back of the oil can, make sure it says at least 502 00 or higher for your engine. It used to say VW 502 00, now just 505 00/505 01
If you do your own oil changes keep the receipts and a log for the proof of ext.warranties .
Not quite. 505.00/505.01 does not superseded 502.00, but is a different VW oil standard. Depending on use it may be a better oil that 502.00, or it could be worse. The best advice I've heard is to use the oil spec'd by VW.
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Old 09-11-19, 09:56 AM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by RGMN View Post
Not quite. 505.00/505.01 does not superseded 502.00, but is a different VW oil standard. Depending on use it may be a better oil that 502.00, or it could be worse. The best advice I've heard is to use the oil spec'd by VW.
OK cool I'll check the user manual.
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Old 09-12-19, 08:45 AM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
Agree. I always use a lot of cardboard and newspapers and I always get pretty close to my goal of 0 drops of oil on the pavement. And the oil can be handed over to my local Kragen for collection.

'Our' mechanic lost our business when he (in my opinion) bullied my wife into approving a whole new oil pan after (in my opinion) he stripped the drain plug threads, rather than much cheaper drain plug replacement options. If I change my own oil, then if the drain plug threads get stripped then I know it's my fault. Plus you hear horror stories all the time about oil-change places forgetting to tighten the drain plug and it falls out and you lose all your oil on the street and kill your engine.

Plus changing my own oil is part of what makes me feel like a Man.

(But I'm secure enough in my manhood I'm not about to attempt a DIY timing chain tensioner replacement!!)
Sounds familiar. I had every oil change completed at the dealer where I purchased my Passat to maintain the extended warranty that VW issued as a result of the oil sludge issue. At one change, they stripped the threads in the oil pan due to over torquing the plug and an insert wasn't holding. The dealer would not take responsibility for the damage and refused to pay the entire repair bill after having admitted they did every oil change. I had the vast majority of service done at this dealership, to the tune of thousands of dollars. That was the last time I darkened their doorway.

Since then, I've had a local garage do most of my work. I moved to DIYing the oil changes after purchasing a Mityvac fluid evacuator. I can change the oil and filter in about 20 minutes without having to go under the car. The oil drain plug has never been removed form the new pan.

Just guessing, but refusing to pay for that oil pan took at least $7,500 of service away from the dealership (not to mention the bad press I dumped on them).
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Old 09-12-19, 08:54 AM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by Altair 4 View Post
Just guessing, but refusing to pay for that oil pan took at least $7,500 of service away from the dealership (not to mention the bad press I dumped on them).
It never ceases to amaze me how completely short-sighted and myopic businesses can be in the interest of a short-term gain of saving a couple dollars.

Progressive Insurance screwed me over 15+ years ago on some issue. It's been so long that I can't remember exactly what the issue was -- I think I forgot to check a box that declined a particular type of coverage that I needed, and despite reviewing the recorded phone call where their representative told me that I would get refunded, they refused to refund me.

But I do remember they were dishonest and I immediately canceled my policy with them, and I will go to my grave before giving them another dime of my money.

I'm guessing I've paid ~$20,000 in car insurance premiums since then (not to mention homeowner's insurance). So in order to avoid refunding me $200 or so, they have lost at least $20,000 since then.

Now, I'm guessing that amount probably doesn't even cover their budget for Post-It notes, but it's significant to me.
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Old 09-12-19, 09:07 AM
  #68  
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Lots of oil pans are made from aluminum and drain plugs are steel, so after many oil changers aluminum threads in the oil pan eventually will wear out and the drain plug will not tighten. Of course it did not help either if the drain plug was cross threaded .Oil pan would require replacements or a helicoil would need to be used. Some quick oil change places would use a rubber extension plug-but they would always leak.

Earlier VW offered a hybrid oil pan( two piece oil pans-bottom is steel and top is aluminum) with drain hole threads in steel.

Fluid evacuator is the way to go with some engines. Some new cars now have plastic oil pans with plastic drain plugs(!).
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Old 09-12-19, 09:58 AM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by Altair 4 View Post
I moved to DIYing the oil changes after purchasing a Mityvac fluid evacuator. I can change the oil and filter in about 20 minutes without having to go under the car. The oil drain plug has never been removed form the new pan.
That sounds very interesting, never heard of that before! But I would still need to get under to change the filter
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Old 09-13-19, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrey View Post
Lots of oil pans are made from aluminum and drain plugs are steel, so after many oil changers aluminum threads in the oil pan eventually will wear out and the drain plug will not tighten. Of course it did not help either if the drain plug was cross threaded .Oil pan would require replacements or a helicoil would need to be used. Some quick oil change places would use a rubber extension plug-but they would always leak..
They tried the helicoil and it still leaked and that really buggered it. The real problem was not cross-threading, but over-torquing the drain plug every time they reinstalled it. Nobody follows the torque specs...they just "godzilla" the thing back in. The spec is so low, you barely need a wrench. A steel plug into an aluminum pan will do that.

Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
That sounds very interesting, never heard of that before! But I would still need to get under to change the filter
I don't know what the engine looks like on your model. On the 1.8T engine in my car, I can disconnect the air inlet hose from the engine to get enough clearance to reach the oil filter from the top. It works really well.
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Old 09-13-19, 02:42 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by Altair 4 View Post
The real problem was not cross-threading, but over-torquing the drain plug every time they reinstalled it. Nobody follows the torque specs...they just "godzilla" the thing back in. The spec is so low, you barely need a wrench. A steel plug into an aluminum pan will do that.
Quality torque wrenches are expensive and most oil change techs do not have them or too lazy to use. Techs who have good quality torque wrenches usually work on more complex problems or services than routine oil changes.

If you do it right though even aluminum oil pans will last a long time. I have a few VWs with over 200.000 miles with original oil pans.
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Old 09-13-19, 03:14 PM
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I took a work van to the shop around the corner from my house the other day that I take my personal cars. It's a small, locally-owned, full-service garage. I.e. not a quick-lube joint.

Point is I had them do an oil change along with the other stuff and the charge for an oil change on a 15-year-old Ford 15-seat passenger van was $25.

I usually change my own oil but sometimes I don't have the time or energy or I don't want to dig out the jack and the jackstands and the creeper and mess around underneath my car for 20 minutes so it's worth it to me to let someone else do it.

I end up doing it myself, most of the time, because I use synthetic oil in our cars and the quick-lube joints always want to tack on an exorbitant extra charge for synthetic oil, so a $30 oil change suddenly turns into $80.

Long story short you might be better off taking it to an actual shop (where I know they have torque wrenches) for a quick oil change. Finding one that you trust is a problem--it took me 8 years living in this town to find this shop--but still.
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Old 09-14-19, 07:45 AM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by ksryder View Post
I took a work van to the shop around the corner from my house the other day that I take my personal cars. It's a small, locally-owned, full-service garage. I.e. not a quick-lube joint.

Point is I had them do an oil change along with the other stuff and the charge for an oil change on a 15-year-old Ford 15-seat passenger van was $25.

I usually change my own oil but sometimes I don't have the time or energy or I don't want to dig out the jack and the jackstands and the creeper and mess around underneath my car for 20 minutes so it's worth it to me to let someone else do it.

I end up doing it myself, most of the time, because I use synthetic oil in our cars and the quick-lube joints always want to tack on an exorbitant extra charge for synthetic oil, so a $30 oil change suddenly turns into $80.

Long story short you might be better off taking it to an actual shop (where I know they have torque wrenches) for a quick oil change. Finding one that you trust is a problem--it took me 8 years living in this town to find this shop--but still.
Indeed. I found a general service shop I trust, but they have changed ownership/management about a year ago. They don't have any of my old repair records, so I look like a new customer to them with no history of spending money with them.

I only use them for repairs I can't or won't do myself, and I'll ask them to change the oil in one of the cars IF one of the cars needs an oil change at that time.

Last fall, I had them install a new heater core in one of the cars. I was in no mood to learn how to pull the entire dash out to do that job.
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Old 09-14-19, 08:47 AM
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StupidlyBrave 
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Originally Posted by FiftySix View Post
Last fall, I had them install a new heater core in one of the cars. I was in no mood to learn how to pull the entire dash out to do that job.
Smart man.



That, by the way, is a B4 Passat interior
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Old 09-16-19, 06:37 AM
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1997 VW Golf heater core
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