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Disc brakes are now the default on road bikes and no one cares

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Disc brakes are now the default on road bikes and no one cares

Old 02-23-20, 09:19 AM
  #126  
noodle soup
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Ah. Yeah, that hasn't been much of an issue for me, either. A few clicks of the barrel adjuster, that's about it. I also didn't swap wheels that frequently - the 28/30s that I normally ride on pavement are fine for shorter jaunts on gravel/dirt. I really only swap out when it's going to be a ride with significant gravel, which is more of an event ride, for me/in my area. Now that I have the R3, I'll just be using different bikes.
I don't think it's a big deal either, but I wouldn't want to deal with it if I was swapping out wheels frequently.
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Old 02-23-20, 09:25 AM
  #127  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
Disc alignment is a simple one time fix, but proper cassette alignment isn't as easy to fix.

If cassette alignment is the concern, I'd try before buying. Derailleur adjustments aren't a huge hassle, but I wouldn't want to do it every time I wanted to swap wheels.
Is it ever the case that there's so much difference that a barrel adjuster can't accommodate the difference? Trying before buying makes sense, but obviously difficult if considering an online wheelset (eg. Lightbicycle), or getting an LBS to actually allow you to mount your cassette in order to try before buying?

If going to a one-size fits-all wheelset, I assume fair to say that swapping tires is typically more of a hassle than RD adjusting, especially if at least one of the tire sets is running tubeless (with sealant)?
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Old 02-23-20, 09:28 AM
  #128  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
I assume fair to say that swapping tires is typically more of a hassle than RD adjusting, especially if at least one of the tire sets is running tubeless (with sealant)?
Adjust the RD. Swapping tubeless tires isn't going to happen.
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Old 02-23-20, 09:30 AM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Adjust the RD. Swapping tubeless tires isn't going to happen.
Is there such a thing as cassette shims, exactly to address this?
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Old 02-23-20, 09:34 AM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
Is there such a thing as cassette shims, exactly to address this?
You got me, but I would assume so.

One thing to keep in mind is that the experiences of someone like Noodle Soup and psimet, who see and service a ton of bikes, are going to be different than what a typical rider will experience. I wouldn't spend too much time working out how to address worst-case scenarios when the likelihood is that any problems encountered will minor and easily addressed.
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Old 02-23-20, 10:07 AM
  #131  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Adjust the RD. Swapping tubeless tires isn't going to happen.
Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
Is there such a thing as cassette shims, exactly to address this?
Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
You got me, but I would assume so.
Shims are available, but the smallest I've seen are 1mm thick(a huge difference).

Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
One thing to keep in mind is that the experiences of someone like Noodle Soup and psimet, who see and service a ton of bikes, are going to be different than what a typical rider will experience. I wouldn't spend too much time working out how to address worst-case scenarios when the likelihood is that any problems encountered will minor and easily addressed.
I occasionally see cassette alignment issues, but I wouldn't call it common. More often than not, it works exactly like it's supposed to. Disc alignment issues are more common, but are a simple fix.
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Old 02-23-20, 10:21 AM
  #132  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
Shims are available, but the smallest I've seen are 1mm thick(a huge difference).

I occasionally see cassette alignment issues, but I wouldn't call it common. More often than not, it works exactly like it's supposed to. Disc alignment issues are more common, but are a simple fix.
Good to hear.. FYI, one of the first google hits that came back for me on cassette/hub shims was this Zipp product at .25mm, but unsure would work with any other brand of hub.

https://www.amazon.com/0-25mm-Zipp-F.../dp/B0063HMR6O
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Old 02-23-20, 10:38 AM
  #133  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
Good to hear.. FYI, one of the first google hits that came back for me on cassette/hub shims was this Zipp product at .25mm, but unsure would work with any other brand of hub.

https://www.amazon.com/0-25mm-Zipp-F.../dp/B0063HMR6O
Maybe Psimet2001 has experience with these Zipp .25mm spacers. I haven't worked on any 188 hubs recently.
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Old 02-23-20, 10:44 AM
  #134  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
I'm surprised the shop you bought them from, didn't explain the pros and cons of CK hubs.
I bought them online😞When you think you know what you are doing but dont😆😆
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Old 02-23-20, 11:17 AM
  #135  
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Originally Posted by colnago62 View Post
I bought them online😞When you think you know what you are doing but dont😆😆
That kinda sucks.

I'm surprised you couldn't find a local dealer that serviced CK hubs. The shops I've worked at that were CK dealers, all had the tools/experience needed to service their hubs. CK recommends 6-12 month service intervals, but those seem to err on the side of caution.
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Old 02-23-20, 12:29 PM
  #136  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
Good to hear.. FYI, one of the first google hits that came back for me on cassette/hub shims was this Zipp product at .25mm, but unsure would work with any other brand of hub.

https://www.amazon.com/0-25mm-Zipp-F.../dp/B0063HMR6O
See, this is what I'm saying - we're looking at two "issues," and you've been informed that one issue is common, but easy to fix, and that the other is not that common... but you're still wasting CPU cycles on finding solutions that you probably won't need. It's a bike, not a rocket ship. You don't need to overthink it - buy the bike you want, buy the wheels you want. Most likely, it'll be a-okay.
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Old 02-23-20, 12:36 PM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
... but you're still wasting CPU cycles on finding solutions that you probably won't need.
"A CPU cycle is a terrible thing to waste."
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Old 02-23-20, 12:43 PM
  #138  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
See, this is what I'm saying - we're looking at two "issues," and you've been informed that one issue is common, but easy to fix, and that the other is not that common... but you're still wasting CPU cycles on finding solutions that you probably won't need. It's a bike, not a rocket ship. You don't need to overthink it - buy the bike you want, buy the wheels you want. Most likely, it'll be a-okay.
No doubt everything will work out. but hey, just thought a hub shim sounded like a natural answer to the 'issue' that i didn't raise but was being discussed. Can't see how my linking one in a post is bad use of CPU cycles.
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Old 02-23-20, 12:55 PM
  #139  
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Both of my wheels are centerlock and I can swap them back and forth. Rotors line up. Cassette lines up too. One set has DT 240s, the other has HED hubs. Previous bike had a set of Stan's wheels and they didn't swap very well. Probably not related, and just a matter of luck, but the system that works is Di2, the one that gave me problems was SRAM. Both hydraulic.
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Old 02-23-20, 12:56 PM
  #140  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
No doubt everything will work out. but hey, just thought a hub shim sounded like a natural answer to the 'issue' that i didn't raise but was being discussed. Can't see how my linking one in a post is bad use of CPU cycles.
Now you know that if a problem arises, there's a solution. 🙂

Probably means you don't even have to try them on first. But you need to post a photo of the new goodies.
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Old 02-23-20, 01:09 PM
  #141  
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Originally Posted by BillyD View Post
One solution might be to go down the road I'm going . . . . keep my old bike with my comfy rim brakes and let the new-fangled bikes with disc brakes sit on the merchant shelves. Will this "boycott" ever work, No, because so many folks just gotta have the latest and greatest bicycle cycle, and they're willing to put up with the maintenance complications. Call me a curmudgeon or whatever, but I enjoy riding my bikes the old fashioned way and I have no complaints.
Yup. I have 5 rim brake bikes. And 20 or so wheels. All are interchangeable other than different dropout spacings and drivetrain types. I swap wheel a lot. Now I keep my drivetrains simple so swapping rear wheels is easy. (Friction shifting so at worst I might have to tweak a limit screw. All hubs are quick release or 15mm track nuts. All brakes rim. I almost never have to do anything for the brakes when I shift wheels. (Well, my city bikes run Mavic Open Sports rather that Open Pros so they are a touch wider.)


Originally Posted by tyrion View Post
Another advantage of disc brakes: it's much easier to adjust a rotor by a few micrometers than it is to adjust a rim by a few micrometers.
But ... who even cares about micrometers when dishing rim brake wheels or setting up rim brakes? Being off by a mm hardly matters. That's a thousand micrometers we don't have to deal with. Now one small pet peeve I have with newer caliper brakes is that they do not include the flats for a 10mm or 13mm cone wrench that made centering so brain dead easy that swapping wheels with incorrect dish (perhaps from re-spacing an axle) was no big deal at all. You could shift the hub 3mm, spent 3 minutes on the brake and ride. (I challenge anyone to do that with a disc wheel.) Of course, with those crude quick releases, cocking the wheel a touch to center brakes that were a little off was easy. And then we just rode, oblivious to the fact that our wheel was all screwed up. A few hundred miles later, when there is another reason to pull and rplace the wheel it's "oh, yeah, I need to tweak the brakes" or "I need to correct the dish". But if there isn't time, we just ride, Everything works, all is quite, no big deal.

And in answer to Seattle Forest's "no one cares" re: new bikes. I don't. The disc brakes bikes will stay on the shop floor. Any new bike I get will be metal and custom. Speccing rim brakes means I can ask for a sweeter riding, more comfortable and more flexible fork. (And easier to build, Maybe cheaper. Or in exchange, I could get a free braze-on I really want.)

Now all I have to do is forget how dangerous my next descent is gong to be. Thankfully I was oblivious last fall when I came off the Crater Lake rim. Followed the tandem out of the Blue Mountains of OR two years ago. Disc brakes would have been good when I came down Mt Washington 45 years ago and blew a very hot tire but it wasn't a big deal. Tubular so I just changed it out and repaired it when I got home 170 miles later.

I'll grant that disc brakes stop better. But more powert? I have refitted my dual-pivot braked bikes to V-brake levers so when I slam on the brakes (for the car in front or mountain descent curve I could not see in advance), nothing exciting happens, I just slow down, very quickly.

Ben
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Old 02-23-20, 01:53 PM
  #142  
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
Triples will make a comeback. Mark my words.

"Modern electronic shifting has eliminated all of the drawbacks of using triple cranks. This enables us to tighten up the cassette in the rear - dropping weight and reducing jumps in gearing and reducing friction from overly long chains. blah blah blah bs bs bs buy new stuff."
I mean.... youre not really wrong. Im not particularly weak or fat but still regularly find myself grinding at 40rpm up steep climbs. Especially towards the end of rides. My ideal cadence is pretty much double that. When trimming etc was all manual, I could see why a double would be easier to use. Im waiting for the comeback of the triple, wallet in hand. Especially for an all-road bike.
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Old 02-23-20, 01:54 PM
  #143  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
Can't see how my linking one in a post is bad use of CPU cycles.
One post is not a problem, but we're not talking about one post, we're talking about a pattern - I seem to recall a string of what-ifs in other threads, too, many of them similar long-shots.

Discs and tubeless are no longer some wild frontier - problems may arise but, when you have the stuff in-hand, solutions often present themselves just by virtue of trying and that experience is the best teacher. If that doesn't work, many here, myself included, are happy to help, but I feel like generosity of time and experience is something that should be respected. Responding to, "probably not a problem that you'll run in to," with, "yeah, but what about about this or that?" gets a bit tedious.
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Old 02-23-20, 02:23 PM
  #144  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
No doubt everything will work out. but hey, just thought a hub shim sounded like a natural answer to the 'issue' that i didn't raise but was being discussed. Can't see how my linking one in a post is bad use of CPU cycles.
Your sin wasn't so much that you wasted CPU cycles, but that you wasted CPU cycles on something that another person wasn't interested in.
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Old 02-23-20, 02:31 PM
  #145  
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OP was right. No one cares.
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Old 02-23-20, 03:10 PM
  #146  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
Is there such a thing as cassette shims, exactly to address this?
Yes. I have 6 sets of 11 speed wheels all shimmed to work on my direct drive trainer with no RD adjustments required.
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Old 02-23-20, 03:11 PM
  #147  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
That kinda sucks.

I'm surprised you couldn't find a local dealer that serviced CK hubs. The shops I've worked at that were CK dealers, all had the tools/experience needed to service their hubs. CK recommends 6-12 month service intervals, but those seem to err on the side of caution.
I found a local shop that could do the work. It was $$$ compared to other wheel services. Chris King manufactures their own bearings and they are pricey. These where rain wheels, so they were getting serviced at the beginning spring. I felt like Shimano makes good wheels and hubs and I can service them for a lot less then Chris Kings.
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Old 02-23-20, 03:14 PM
  #148  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
One post is not a problem, but we're not talking about one post, we're talking about a pattern - I seem to recall a string of what-ifs in other threads, too, many of them similar long-shots.

Discs and tubeless are no longer some wild frontier - problems may arise but, when you have the stuff in-hand, solutions often present themselves just by virtue of trying and that experience is the best teacher. If that doesn't work, many here, myself included, are happy to help, but I feel like generosity of time and experience is something that should be respected. Responding to, "probably not a problem that you'll run in to," with, "yeah, but what about about this or that?" gets a bit tedious.
This was my feeling; Instead of trying to figure out how to make a particular piece of equipment work, change the equipment.
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Old 02-23-20, 03:37 PM
  #149  
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Originally Posted by Trsnrtr View Post
Yes. I have 6 sets of 11 speed wheels all shimmed to work on my direct drive trainer with no RD adjustments required.
Okay, I'll ask the obvious question: Why do you need 6 sets of wheels for your trainer?
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Old 02-23-20, 03:49 PM
  #150  
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
OP was right. No one cares.
My regular road ride includes a 30 minute descent



I don't feel any need for disc brakes, and don't have a need for the latest and greatest, and don't need a new bike. But if I were shopping for a new road bike I'd probably get discs because it's the new standard and I don't care.
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