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Which direction next? What should I look out for?

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Which direction next? What should I look out for?

Old 02-21-20, 05:37 PM
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Chr0m0ly 
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Which direction next? What should I look out for?

I've really cornered the market on 80's touring bikes from the Trek, Cannondale, and Miyata. I have and love riding these bikes, and have some of the most desired models...

But I've never had the pleasure of trying any European frames. Never a Peugeot, a Moto, a Raleigh, or Cinelli... (Ok one Raleigh 20!)

I know I like touring bikes for the stretched out, smooth geometry, and room for fattish tires and mud guards.

I'd really like to find something flashier. Nothing I own has any chrome, or fancy lugs.

I see likely candidates from time to time, and then reading up I find something that shuts it down, the geometry is racier than I'd prefer, or the frame is a weird combo of 531 triangle and seamed hi-ten fork and stays, or there isn't clearence for 28/32mm tires.

So I'm looking for make and model suggestions?
I know to look for

Raligh International
Certain Gran Sports
Early Competitions

Some years of Motobecane Grand Jubilé?

but my knowledge of Italian bikes is non-existant. Surely there are some long distance machines from Italy.

What else is out there?
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Old 02-21-20, 05:54 PM
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I think you will find that most European touring bikes will be British or French. If you scour ebay.fr and various bike-specific sources (like BOBishBikesFS) you might get lucky and find an obscure French constructeur bike for less than Herse/Singer prices.

Touring generally wasn't a big part of post-war Italian cycling. I think they raced or rode city bikes for the most part. That said, there is a Ciöcc with more generous tire clearance on eBay right now. Despite the image it's for the frame, fork and headset, I believe. Still, I'd focus on French iron.

1980's CIÖCC Strade Bianche Eroica Gravel frameset - 60cm Made in Italy

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Old 02-21-20, 06:05 PM
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Be careful with French bikes. Even many of the lower end ones ride surprisingly nice.

And then they multiply.

It's weird.
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Old 02-21-20, 06:14 PM
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I would love to find a constructeur. This book https://www.renehersecycles.com/shop...uilt-bicycles/
Is a big part of why I got into the touring bikes. I figured a Singer etc would be next to impossible to find but a trek 6/720 would be the next best thing.

Hmmm... eBay France... 👍
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Old 02-21-20, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Chr0m0ly View Post
What else is out there?
For touring bikes, you can't go wrong with any older univega or miyata. The 610 Miyata is coveted for being a great simple touring machine. Any of the univegas that say "Tour" or "touring" in their model name is always a good choice. The Japanese-made Schwinn touring bikes are wicked nice. Yes, I said, wicked. I'm from New Hampshire. Sue me.
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Old 02-21-20, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by J.Higgins View Post
For touring bikes, you can't go wrong with any older univega or miyata. The 610 Miyata is coveted for being a great simple touring machine. Any of the univegas that say "Tour" or "touring" in their model name is always a good choice. The Japanese-made Schwinn touring bikes are wicked nice. Yes, I said, wicked. I'm from New Hampshire. Sue me.
1) I’m a M@zzh0le myself, so feel free to use wicked or get some Dunkies, then hit the packy for some beeh!

2) Miyata’s I have, an ‘84 610 and a ‘91 1000LT, and you’re right, they are wicked awesome! I’m looking for older stuff with fancy pants lug work and some chrome!
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Old 02-21-20, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Chr0m0ly View Post
1) I’m a M@zzh0le myself, so feel free to use wicked or get some Dunkies, then hit the packy for some beeh!

2) Miyata’s I have, an ‘84 610 and a ‘91 1000LT, and you’re right, they are wicked awesome! I’m looking for older stuff with fancy pants lug work and some chrome!
Right on, nay-bah!
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Old 02-21-20, 07:26 PM
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How about a totally, completely different direction? Many of the things you like about touring bikes you will find on early to mid 1980s rigid frame MTBs. Comfortable, handle almost any tire choice, good brakes, still affordable.


They are just starting to get harder to find. They have a rich history, lots of things to like about them. The Japanese ones have the typical great workmanship too.

Early Trek MTBs from 1983 and 1984 would be a nice addition to your Trek bikes. Back then, every model was special.

I find some of the early MTBs to be flashy in their own unique ways. Some chrome models out there, chrome bull moose bars, etc.

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Old 02-21-20, 07:53 PM
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P X-10 gives you chrome, 531, and fancy lugs. My 69 had room for 28s and 40mm fenders. 32mm knobbies without fenders.

Motobecane has nicer finish if that is important and fancy lugs are on the full 531 Grand Record.
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Old 02-21-20, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by wrk101 View Post
How about a totally, completely different direction? Many of the things you like about touring bikes you will find on early to mid 1980s rigid frame MTBs. Comfortable, handle almost any tire choice, good brakes, still affordable.


They are just starting to get harder to find. They have a rich history, lots of things to like about them. The Japanese ones have the typical great workmanship too.

Early Trek MTBs from 1983 and 1984 would be a nice addition to your Trek bikes. Back then, every model was special.

I find some of the early MTBs to be flashy in their own unique ways. Some chrome models out there, chrome bull moose bars, etc.
Schwinn Cimarron. OP needs to get one. Mellow, comfortable geometry, high-rise handlebars, excellent tubing, and wedded to classic groupsets like "Deer head" Deore XT, not to mention how customizable they are. Those bikes have aged better than whiskey.

There's an entire Schwinn Cimarron thread because of how useful those bikes were. You can *still* get them for a few hundred bucks, if you look carefully!
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Old 02-21-20, 08:04 PM
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That said, I've seen Falcon and Jack Taylor touring bikes in the vintage for British touring, and those are just gorgeous, especially Jack Taylors with the funky "mod" graphics. One of my favorite vintage decal sets ever. IIRC they're expensive, but Jack Taylor (Super) Tourists are about as lovely you can get for British touring.

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Old 02-21-20, 08:37 PM
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This is going on the block in May, 83 Centurion Pro Tour, all Chrome, probably Frame, Fork, Headset, Brakes, DT shifter and a modded shifter block as cable stop, seat clamp bolt and cable stop hanger. It has 700Cx35 tires, specced originally with 27" wheels so the rear brakes do not engage the best while the fronts work well. Might include the frame bag. Rear is spread to 130+. I got it as a frame and fork with the brakes and headset.

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Old 02-21-20, 08:44 PM
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I'm gonna have to kick you in the NADS CrMo! You've already got the 'Creme-de-la-Creme' of (Japanese) mass-produced Vintage tourers in your stable and you're STILL not happy? Are you suffering from 'The Grass is Greener' because of frame-build location?

About the ONLY thing better than what you already have is a limited-production niche-builder or a full-on custom-built frame! And No, I'm NOT talking those heavy clunkers mass-produced today. Yes, those 'special builders' bikes come up every so often on the used market, but you've gotta be quick!

Or what about a late '70s P-15 'Touring Paramount'? https://bikehistory.org/catalogs/1977.html https://bikehistory.org/catalogs/1978.html Looks like the 77s were the last of the chrome socks era... Note that even those were 26 pounds!!! On second thought -- your Miyatas are probably 'better' bikes!!!
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Old 02-21-20, 08:56 PM
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If you like running 28c/32c tires, 70s era bikes are generally a good bet. Most roads bikes of that era had eyelets and what were once called "standard" reach brakes. I've seen very few that can't take 32c tires from that era. I also wouldn't turn my nose up at a 3 main tubes Reynolds bike. French bikes of that era are lovely bikes and they tend to be reasonably priced.

A 1970s Motobecane grand record is a good choice and will likely set you back less than a similar quality British or Italian bicycle.

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Old 02-21-20, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by sheddle View Post
Schwinn Cimarron. OP needs to get one. Mellow, comfortable geometry, high-rise handlebars, excellent tubing, and wedded to classic groupsets like "Deer head" Deore XT, not to mention how customizable they are. Those bikes have aged better than whiskey.

There's an entire Schwinn Cimarron thread because of how useful those bikes were. You can *still* get them for a few hundred bucks, if you look carefully!
I've drop barred a Marin Bear valley, and found the TT to be too long. I have a Cannondale M500 I'm going to try, but it's got a longer top tube as well. I have longer legs and a short back.


(I know, sorry about the non-drive side)

This is my current daily ride, a 24” Trek with a 65mm reach stem. "Just a fist full of seatpost" gets my handlebars up nice and comfortable without a mile and a half of steering stem 👍

I do like the idea of Cimarron, and the earlier 23" size might work if the TT is in the 58cm range. It's not the direction I was thinking but I like the idea something I could hop a curb with.
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Old 02-21-20, 09:43 PM
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CrMo,
I'm just the opposite sort of physical build. Short legs, but long torso and arms. Just call me 'Magilla'

Anyway, that's why I prefer the 'too-tall' frames for my height -- I need the TT length!
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Old 02-21-20, 10:08 PM
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How about a Marinoni? Think of them as Italian design with North American finish quality. Most that you’ll see around C&V are race bikes, but he makes other styles.

My ‘87 is considered a Sports Tourer, according to Simonne (Madame Marinoni). It has rear rack mounts, fits up to 700x32’s. I’d happily use it on a “credit card” tour with a pair of smaller panniers. Marinoni has always had similar bikes in his “catalog”. Rowan ’s wife (her name is failing me ATM) has a Marinoni that she uses for loaded tours all over the world.

Mine:

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Old 02-21-20, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Cougrrcj View Post
I'm gonna have to kick you in the NADS CrMo! You've already got the 'Creme-de-la-Creme' of (Japanese) mass-produced Vintage tourers in your stable and you're STILL not happy? Are you suffering from 'The Grass is Greener' because of frame-build location?

About the ONLY thing better than what you already have is a limited-production niche-builder or a full-on custom-built frame! And No, I'm NOT talking those heavy clunkers mass-produced today. Yes, those 'special builders' bikes come up every so often on the used market, but you've gotta be quick!

Or what about a late '70s P-15 'Touring Paramount'? https://bikehistory.org/catalogs/1977.html https://bikehistory.org/catalogs/1978.html Looks like the 77s were the last of the chrome socks era... Note that even those were 26 pounds!!! On second thought -- your Miyatas are probably 'better' bikes!!!
I KNOW!!!

I know that I have some amazing touring bikes in my stable. And for loaded touring they’re better suited than just about anything out there.

I’m not looking for a “better” touring bike, I’m looking for a different experience in biking. I want to see what the 60’s or 70’s bike rides like, while taking into account my frame geometry preferences. I'm curious about the frames built to handle cobblestone and other poor road conditions.

An early enough mountain bike wasn't what I had in mind, but it would be a nice change. There was a beautiful '85 lugged Trek 800 on the local Craigs, but it was tiny.

I almost bought a Raleigh competition frame, I think the ‘77? With the filed (copella?) lugs and sloped fork crown. It had the geometey I was hoping for (just about the same as the international) but the rear derailleur mount had been drewed off.
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Old 02-21-20, 10:24 PM
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Have you considered a 650B bike? Definitely good/great for poor or nonexistent pavement. Or something intended as a “gravel bike”?

When I’ve got the Marinoni set up in 650B configuration, I am aware of being much more relaxed about pavement quality, and that’s with just 38’s (42’s don’t quite fit).
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Old 02-21-20, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Chr0m0ly View Post
Hmmm... eBay France... 👍
You know the old saying ... Once you go "Franc", no money "en l'banque"!
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Old 02-21-20, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Dfrost View Post
Have you considered a 650B bike? Definitely good/great for poor or nonexistent pavement. Or something intended as a “gravel bike”?

When I’ve got the Marinoni set up in 650B configuration, I am aware of being much more relaxed about pavement quality, and that’s with just 38’s (42’s don’t quite fit).


I HAVE been wanting to convert my 710 over to 650b. I have this idea it would be a sweet gravel grinding build. It's set up with 28mm tires right now, and that's about the limit for clearance.

It IS a very pretty bicycle, I was stopped at an intersection and a driver asked me if it was Italian... Got to be that "sunrise red"!
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Old 02-22-20, 12:01 AM
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If you can lay hands on a 1973-ish Raleigh International. I can definitely recommend it. They are a great mix of comfort, versatility and performance, with a bit of chrome flash thrown in.

Grand Sports and Competitions are a bit more common, and are also versatile and have geometries that are pretty close to the International.

This said, I have a 1972 Fuji Finest that in many ways emulates the look of the PX-10. I've never ridden a PX-10, but if it is close in feel to the Fuji, it would not disappoint.
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Old 02-22-20, 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Chr0m0ly View Post

I HAVE been wanting to convert my 710 over to 650b. I have this idea it would be a sweet gravel grinding build. It's set up with 28mm tires right now, and that's about the limit for clearance.

It IS a very pretty bicycle, I was stopped at an intersection and a driver asked me if it was Italian... Got to be that "sunrise red"!
My ‘79 912, which was originally quite similar to your lovely 710 although with more tire clearance having started as 27”, was not a good 650B candidate, since it would only take 32’s even at the smaller 650B radius. Heck, it will take 700x32’s (or 28’s with fenders). But our own @gugie did a great job transforming it into a “travel bike” with the low trail modified fork (made from the stock fork), custom racks, his very clever decaleur and front bag. It’s now a different sort of tourer and works very well with a wide variety of front loads. BTW, not yet mounted for the photo below, this is also my dedicated fender bike, handy around here in the PNW.

I also wanted to create something different, since the 912 and the Marinoni posted above had become quite similar. No room around here for an additional bike, but this set of modifications far exceeded my expectations. With the Marinoni above in either 700x32 or 650Bx38, I have effectively three different but satisfying bikes.


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Old 02-22-20, 08:27 PM
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Now that you're in Manhattan, we should meet up some time, and you can try out my 1974 Raleigh International. I live on Greenwich St near 11 St. I commute to Hunter College and am on the Hudson River Greenway frequently. I take it between home and school half the time.

Your Miyata is really nice. 650b might work on it.
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Old 02-22-20, 08:33 PM
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I say go for some thin-tubed 70s sport touring/racing bikes. I loved my Miyata 1000LT, but it was a whole different animal from my flexy (not in a bad way) 1976 AD Vent Noir. Completely dissimilar ride and a lot of fun.
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