metalheart44

I have had a Di2 system since 2011. I now have an 11 speed Ultregra Di2 with 6770 shifters. I recently had a new BT-DN110 battery and the EW-WU111 wireless unit installed.

I downloaded the E-Tube software for IOS, paired my iPhone with the new wireless unit and started to do a firmware update. As the download started, I had to attend to something else and put the iPhone down on a counter about 3 feet from the bike. When I returned there was an error message on the iPhone about the download being interrupted.

I tried to reestablish the bluetooth connection, but could not and then discovered that the entire Di system was not operating: no battery indicator light, no shifting, no indications of life. I called a local bike shop and they said they have seen this problem before and to bring it in for a system reset and firmware update ($50). So, the bike is in the shop, but I am now concerned that the process of using the E-Tube software with bluetooth is problematic, at least based on my initial experience.

Anyone else had this problem using the Apple IOS and E-Tube software?

Update-- after some searching, there are a few reports of this type of failure with different solutions, from replacing the battery to unplugging the detailers to using the PC Software (e.g., https://forums.roadbikereview.com/com...on-362640.html) The process of firmware update failure as described in Shimano's docs also did not work in my case --- https://e-tubeproject.shimano.com/new...procedure.html



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1) The battery and wireless unit were installed by a reputable mechanic in a place where I was on vacation. That shop is closed for a few days now and I could not call them to troubleshoot the problem and since they are out of town, I doubt they could help much.
2) There seems to be a relative wealth of information about using E-Tube for Windows, but little for the IOS app. There is the "tutorial" in the E-Tube app, but even that is lacking. For example, unless I am missing something, the app tutorial does not even describe how to put the Di2 system into pairing mode, it merely says, "First, connect the unit and the app." I did find a youtube video that showed that pressing the adjust button on the junction box puts the system into bluetooth connection mode.
3) Are there any detailed instructions for IOS/bluetooth operation of the E-Tube system, or once the connection is established is it just the same as the Windows version?
4) In the past, whenever I took my bike in for some work at a LBS, a friendly and knowledgeable mechanic (who has since moved on) did firmware updates for me, so I never had to be concerned about configuring the system or having up to date firmware. I do not have a Windows computer in the house and so the WU111 bluetooth connection with an iPhone seemed like a solution to having up to date firmware and making other adjustments myself.

jdm5 

I just went through this (new Di2 Dura Ace setup) - one (or more?) components needed firmware update. I used my iPhone, same thing you experienced - it reported failed and Di2 was totally non-responsive.

I read (somewhere?) and can confirm that pairing the Di2 to another IOS device (I used my iPad) worked, and from there was able to complete the firmware update. I have no idea why that would be different than my phone; once that was done I was able to pair my phone and configuration is working through E-Tube with no issues.

Marcus_Ti

Unplug the battery from the rest of the system. Then replug it. Odds are Di2 should come back to life. If it doesn't, you may need a PCE1...

The Bluetooth on Di2 has gotten more wonky WRT phone/app communication with each update.

metalheart44

Just curious, if your Di2 was not responsive, how did you get it into pairing mode so you could use your iPad to complete the firmware update? I tried repeatedly with my iPhone to reestablish a BLE connection and that did not work, so do you think that using the iPad would have worked?

I did not think to unplug the battery. Just too frustrated to think straight at that point. If I had a PC I could use the SM-BCR2 that I use to charge the battery to connect to the Windows E-Tube, but without a PC it seemed my only choice was to take it to the shop where I hope they know what they are doing!

Steve B.

Yes, there have been numerous posts about the update process via BT bricking the system.

Try Marcus's suggestion, as well try a direct connection via a borrowed laptop with E-Tube software using the battery charge cable.

If No Go, hopefully the LBS has the PCE-1 diagnostic cable, else it's about $150 to buy.

noglider 

Are you saying the consumer can't do the firmware update?

TimothyH

Never use a wireless connection to update firmware for the wireless unit itself.

In general, updating firmware on any device via a wireless connection is not a good idea and particularly problematic when updating firmware on wireless devices such as the EW-WU111 itself.

Firmware updates on any device require the device to be rebooted. Rebooting the wireless unit interrupts wireless communication to the unit and so the final part of the update cannot complete. A wired connection is much more reliable for reestablishing connection to a device which is rebooted. Always use a wired connection for updating wireless unit firmware.

The firmware on the wireless unit likely needs to be restored. See **********??E-TUBE PROJECT????.


-Tim-

unterhausen

lots of devices can only have their firmware updated by wireless. But it has to be designed properly. Shimano apparently didn't get that part right

Steve B.

This in a nutshell,

Thx Tim

Marcus_Ti

Problem I had, was the wireless unit would only take it's update over wireless. When I tried to update it via USB E-Tube threw an error telling me to update it wireless.

TimothyH

Your bike lives in its own parallel alternate universe.


-Tim-

Marcus_Ti

Granted I'm using the old eww101

metalheart44

Let me close the loop on this. I went to the bike shop with my iPhone in hand to ensure I could communicate with the restored system. Prior to the bike shop visit I had reinstalled the E-Tube software on my phone just to make sure there were no issues with software corruption. At the bike shop the Di system was fully functional but when I tried to connect phone to bike the E-Tube software displayed an error message about the BLE passcode not matching. I originally changed the BLE passcode as required in the original connection.

There seemed to be no way to change the passcode on the phone to match the passcode established in the original installation. No one in the shop could sort out how to do this on the iPhone, so the mechanic used the PC software and hardwire connection to change the passcode back to the original 000000. Even with this change I could not establish a connection, so they sent me to another shop with a person more knowledgable about Di2 operation.

Mr. Di2 at Shop 2 used the PC software to change the passcode on the bike and I am not quite sure why, but then we were able to establish a connection between the phone and the bike and all functions of the E-tube software were available. All seemed well.

He then noticed I had a Wahoo Element Bolt (new to me within the past 3 weeks) and asked if I had set up the data fields to display gearing, which I had. We looked and the gearing information on the Bolt was not displaying. To make a long story short, I had to delete the BLE connection on the phone for the WU111 and then reestablish it and then the gearing information displayed on the Bolt.

So, now all seems to work.

In general, I agree that all firmware updates should be done via hardwire, but if there is no hardwire option available then there is a predicament. I have experienced my share of BLE dropouts with a variety of hardware, but if there is only a BLE option with an IOS system and the user is given the expectation that this IS the means to do firmware updates, then the user is in a pickle. Furthermore, the Shimano "Firmware Restoration Procedure" linked above just did not work for me ... I could never get beyond the first screen.

Clearly, I have some things to learn, but there are also some issues on the Shimano side with how this software works. I am not alone in encountering this problem. But, it works now and I am happy.

TimothyH

I've seen firmware overwrite settings on devices to new values, change settings back to their default and situations where settings appeared to be normal but the device or feature just would not work. In the latter case, changing to some arbitrary setting and then back to the desired setting can sometimes fix the problem. It sounds like this was part of your issue.

Firmware can be incredibly buggy and some vendors do it better than others. I've been doing firmware updates on very expensive devices for many years. The first time I ever did firmware was on a Hermes Telex machine. Updating firmware, even on a bicycle, still gives me a certain level of anxiety.

Through it all I've learned never to do it over a wireless connection, especially if the wireless device is what is being updated. Sitting physically present at the device with a cable connection is the safest way. PC's need to be set to not go into sleep mode, no thunderstorms in the area to cause power outages, backup everything you can first, screen shot every setting, etc.


-Tim-

metalheart44

Something was definitely wonky with the update and part of that was probably putting my phone down next to my Mac computer and some other electronics that caused some BLE interference. I had intended to just hold the phone next to the bike while the update proceeded, but life happens.

There may have been some user error on my part too when I tried to restart the download, maybe I missed something in the E-Tube software procedure, but I was stumped when the bike was non-responsive and pressing the button on the junction box did not result in the flashing lights. That is when I called one bike shop to ask if they had any advice and their response was not reassuring, something like, "Oh, we have seen this before and the battery gets fried." So, I decided to stop problem solving at that point, which was probably my second mistake.

Anyway, another take-way lesson is that it is useful to identify a knowledgeable Di2 person at a shop and even more useful to have a wired connection, and most desirable is to be an informed Di2 user that can problem-solve. Thanks for all the comments and observations.

noglider 

I'm an IT person by profession, and I'm comfortable with some pretty weird things. But this convinces me not to consider electronic shifting any time soon. I do know it works extremely well most of the time. I've tried it and enjoyed it. But I like some of my life to be non-digital. I don't use any software in my music yet, either. I use a pencil that requires sharpening.

Metaluna

My guess is that they probably don’t have enough spare RAM or Flash onboard the EW-WU111 to download the firmware file into a temporary scratch area, check it to make sure it’s the correct version and not corrupt, and then do the flash. They are possibly trying to overwrite the firmware on the fly over wireless, which would be really, REALLY dumb.

TimothyH

To each his own Tom but Di2 is one of the least problematic electronic devices/systems in my life.

It has been almost a full year and other than charging every few months it has been maintenance free.

Updating firmware is not a requirement. Wireless is not a requirement. It does not even have to be connected to E-Tube software after initial config.


-Tim-

noglider 

OK, it figures you would knock me off my high horse with sense and experience. I'm glad to hear it. And thanks.

TimothyH

That wasn't my intent!!!

You are a good guy, one of the better one's around here. I'd much rather have a conversation with you than lord my experience over you.

noglider 

No worries. I didn't take it as lording. I was just trying to be lighthearted.

metalheart44

Civility is a wonderful thing to observe and practice ....

And, as noted before, I have had Di2 since 2011 without any problems. It has been problem free, which is just what I want in my bike. I want to ride it and not have to worry if things are working correctly and Di2 has met that need. I see this upgrade issue as relatively minor and there are resources to help fix the problem. The issues with Di2 bluetooth firmware updates are probably universal as Tim has noted before. In future, I plan to do updates at a friends house who has a pc and a hardwire connection. So, it would be nice if the bluetooth worked, but in the end all is well and I learned from the experience and I would not trade my Di2 for any other group simply because of how trouble free it has proven over time.

noglider 

Thanks for the testimony, @metalheart44. I will consider it one day, probably after the price has fallen. I'm a cheapskate.

Seattle Forrest

You wouldn't like it. Tim is right that in day-to-day operation it's basically the same as any other groupset, and doesn't require maintenance (because there are no cables to stretch). But shifting feels like clicking a button on a mouse. You can't push the shift paddle halfway in as you anticipate needing a different gear and then move it the rest of the way at exactly the right moment. You simply click, and it gives you a perfect shift. Based on what you say, I think you would find it off-putting.

noglider 

I've tried Di2 on my sister in law's bike. I actually liked it quite a lot. I don't mind that it's instant at all. I don't mind that there's no halfway shifting, and I've never thought to do that.