plantrob

I've never done a proper FTP test. The first few attempts after I got my PM, I hadn't properly informed myself, and just went for 20 minutes after some warm-up, without the prior 5-minute effort. Since I had that as a baseline, I've done the same in my few efforts since then (I'm too averse to pain to test all that often). Which works OK for me, since it's all relative, and I'm not disciplined enough in structured training that having my FTP set slightly too high is going to make much of a difference. But I'm curious how much of a difference in absolute FTP number it would make - any thoughts or direct experience?
Either way, I have some work to do if I want to get back to last year's fitness...

merlinextraligh

Not doing the 5 minutes first is not likely to throw your result off much.

I'd still use 95% of your 20 minute number and see how that works for you. If you find you can't complete the prescribed intervals, then you might need to back it down a bit, or retest.

mike868y

if you're "not serious" enough to do a proper ftp test, one has to question why you spent the money on a powermeter.

yes, i recognize the irony in this post, hate me.

ljrichar

Well, an artificially higher set FTP in WKO or GC will set all of your other zones higher which might make your workouts impossible. If were just talking 10w then you're probably ok. Better to set it lower & move it up as your IF's start cracking 1.0 for over an hour w/o what feels like an all out effort.

carpediemracing 

I don't use my power meter for training.

FTP is just a bragging number for me. I use the power meter to analyze what I did during a race, meaning where I worked, how hard, if I could have worked less, if I could have worked more, etc. I don't use power for training except to look at the cool graphs and check out the numbers.

I finish an FTP test maybe once every two or three years. I hate riding hard when there's nothing in front of me - I don't remember the last time I did intervals longer than 10 seconds long. My best 10 and 20 minute numbers have come from my FTP tests because I never ride that hard in a race. I get shelled before I can hit those numbers because it's usually either way too fast or there's a surge that kills me.

On the other hand my best 1 min - 5 min numbers have come in races because I am way more motivated in a race than I am in training.

Ironically my best peak/5s numbers were in training, a good 200-300w higher than my best peak/5s in a race. Generally speaking my race peak/5s are about 400-500w below what I can hit in training.

ngchi

Personally, I wouldn't sweat it. The number isn't going to be much different. Also, they are "zones" so even if your off by a few watts I don't really think it would impact your training all that much. Lastly, your true FTP is going to change every day, more of a reason not to worry. There is a reason you do a test every few weeks - if that.

Monkeyclaw

I'm with the others. It won't make a huge difference. Your FTP may be off by 5-10 watts, but your zones won't be much different. Zones are arbitrary numbers that have a ton of overlap when it comes to physiological adaptations.

I never test any more, instead getting all of my data from training and racing. I use Golden Cheetah and Training Peaks. They give me good estimates of my FTP. If you want to know yours, go do a 40K TT. If you're puking at the end, you did it right. If not, you didn't go hard enough.

powpow

I say just HTFU and do the 20-minute test.

If you really don't want to, you should be able to narrow it down pretty quickly by doing some hard Z4/Z5 workouts.

Go test!

dnuzzomueller

I am sort of thread-jacking here but: My coach seems to practically not believe in FTP tests, he has me scheduled to do one mid april next, after Battenkill. The last time I did one I had actually disobeyed and did it on a rest week. Is that like a major breach of training to do a 30 minute FTP test during a rest week?

And while CDR may not rely on FTP, I do

plantrob

Because I like seeing another number on my Garmin?
But seriously - I know my FTP range reasonably well. Not only from the not-quite-FTP tests above, but also from other just-above-FTP efforts like ZCIs and Friel Pacing Intervals. Well enough to understand when I'm riding around at tempo vs. near threshold. I'll probably try to nail down my FTP with the full testing protocol at some point, but (especially given some of the other replies in this thread) I'm not in a rush to do so.
Power meter data are for more than just setting training programs. I like challenging myself on hill climbs, and find the power meter helpful in two ways: one, during the climb, I can pace myself better. Without the PM, I tend to go out too hard, and fade - or I don't push hard enough through the sections where the incline eases up. Two, I keep records of how I did on previous climbs, and use that to gauge how much room for improvement I have. There's one 6-minute climb where I averaged upwards of 400W on a perfect day last year where everything just came together. I'm not going to touch that anytime soon. If I want to set a new PR somewhere, I'll look for the 340W efforts (for same duration) first.
Anyway, based on yesterday's test, I'm pretty sure my FTP is below where I set it last spring (having no data since mid-fall, I've just left it in place), so I guess GC has been lowballing my bikescores. Maybe my LTS isn't quite as low compared to last year as the curve suggests

ljrichar

Incorrect. Your FTP doesn't change daily, your ability to hit that number changes depending on fatigue, etc.

canam73

Since you use GC, take a look at the Critical Power curve tab. At least for me, their estimate at the 60 minute mark is about 2 watts higher than my best number calculated from a 20 minute test for this season. That's still going to be dependent you having done some hard efforts, and the longer the better, but it should still work as a checker.

echappist

You are both saying the same thing, just a matter of semantics. That said, i agree more with your interpretation as the former would necessitate daily change of training zone

ljrichar

I don't think it's the same at all & I was really just citing Coggan from last month.

"Saying that you have three FTPs, and/or it changes daily, is like saying that you have three IQs, which goes up and down rapidly."

gsteinb

Have you spent much time on BF? I have a regular IQ and post BF session IQ.

ngchi

I'd actually agree with both of you.

rkwaki

Bwahahaha - hysterical

ljrichar

Ha. As you can see I probably have the lowest number of posts for someone w/ a '06 join date.

I quoted the guy who wrote the book, just sayin'.

echappist

Strawman arguement, since FTP can vary by up to 10% ina season whereas IQ is, as quoted by Coggan, relatively stable. But let's assume that the comparison is apt, your performance on a particular day can be affected by how much sleep you had the previous day, whether you are sick, etc.

And back to the point about FtP, day by day, it may change by a very minute amount, but over time, it will change tangibly (and alas why we train). The only reason why we don't adjust it on a work out by work out basis is because it's unfeasible to implement, but that's different from saying it doesnt change.

ngchi

He didn't invent lactic acid.

ngchi

And also, they are fuzzy zones that overlap on the edges...so back to the original question: It doesn't really matter that much.

I'll do an FTP test here in a month or so because i've had significant time off the bike, otherwise I hadn't done one for two seasons. I'm pretty confident I know when i'm in Z4.

HMF

Every time you say that I can only shake my head in wonder.

echappist

That's a fallacy. Whole purpose of anything scientific is based on the fact that argument are made on merit of facts, per se, not who said it. Coggan is not infallible.

As far as i'm concerned, the whole point of ctL and all that stuff is predicated upon a model that is based on incremental (exponential moving avg) change, and you test under similar conditions (eg tsb) so that you introduce as few as possible other variables that may affect the test.

If your ftp changes on different testing dates, then it follows that the change over a month is predicated upon minute changes through the month. Say you hit 300 on the first test and 310 four weeks later, it doesny mean that you were at 300 for three weeks and six days and made the leap of 10 watts all in one day.

Monkeyclaw

They actually overlap more than just the edges. Some coaches only use 3 zones (sub-LT, LT, supra-LT for example) because there is so much overlap. I believe it's discussed in Cutting-Edge Cycling by Allen and Cheung.

shovelhd

Mine varies a hell of a lot more than 10%.

OP, just do the stinking test forchrissakes. All you wussie boys afraid of pain. Then why the hell are you racing?