Sy Reene

or is this really a collection of SUPs? (Single Use Lanes).
So, we have the Hudson Greenway in NYC, one lane usually marked with paintings of a Bicycle and a Rollerblades, the other shows walkers/runner. Is this a MUP, or is this 2 separate SUPs? Is there any sense in getting angry with joggers in the Cycling/Rollerblading section (not at all uncommon), or is this just silly talk?

Unfamiliar generally with MUPs nationwide, is it common for most MUPs to have lane markings divided by usage/vehicle type?

FBinNY 

Yes, it's just silly talk.

It's still an MUP, though there's the suggestion that people divide themselves according to wheels or no. Let's not argue suggestion vs. rule because it doesn't matter, people will spread out regardless of rules or pavement markings.

After all this is NYC where nobody really considers ANY traffic controls to be more than a suggestion.

tclune

Have you ever known runners to respect anything other than themselves?

TGT1

Runners aren't a problem.

Walking groups of woman and cycling clubs on the other hand,

The walkers just oblivious.

The racers, obnoxious and dangerous.

FBinNY 

Walkers adhere to a corollary of Parkinson's Law.

There's no use fighting it, it's a law of nature.

CliffordK

Around here we have both sawdust paths, and paved paths.

The sawdust paths are restricted to foot traffic (primarily joggers). The paved paths are for everyone.

For the most part, there are no directional lane markings, except on a few corners, and even those seem more like a mere suggestion.

For low to moderate use, I like the unmarked paths. People work it out. For very high level use, I'm not sure.

A lack of lane markings may encourage people to slow down a bit (hopefully).

Sometimes I'm surprised there aren't more collisions at major corners and intersections of the MUPS.

jorglueke

The MRT through St.Paul has sections that divide into bikes and peds. Of course once in a while someone will wander into the bike path usually with a small fluffy poorly trained white dog. In those situations I curse them under my breath and then let it go. It's not a big deal.

canklecat

Fort Worth has multiple lane/type MUPs in some stretches of the Trinity River Trails. Some areas feature both paved and unpaved gravel/chat trails (and the particularly determined riders might even tackle the grass in between the two).

Even the folks who try to set usage policies don't fully understand how the trails are used, or how to regulate usage.

A few months ago I attended a couple of meetings to discuss non-binding suggestions for improving trail usage. Turned out we had less in common than I'd have imagined.

• The runners thought the chat trails should be used only by runners. They didn't even realize there was such a thing as bicycling gravel riding, or that anyone would even choose to participate in such a pursuit, or that there was already a weekly group gravel ride on those trails.
• The tri-bike riders seemed offended by the suggestion that fast cyclists riding aero bars, without ready access to brakes, on the narrow paved path where cyclists and pedestrians pass within inches of each other might be a bit dangerous and inconsiderate, and that perhaps they might stick to the regular drop bar hand positions until they reached the divided bike lanes adjacent to the quiet residential streets where you don't encounter oncoming cyclists in your lane.
• Even the casual cyclists couldn't agree on whether there should or shouldn't be a hard speed limit with posted signs. (I don't believe we need signs -- cyclists just need to use common sense and slow down a bit and pass safely when encountering other users. Otherwise, on a clear path, knock yourselves out if you can ride faster.)

As far as I can tell, none of the suggestions has been implemented. Not surprising.

MUPs always evolve the same way. During hours and in places where pedestrians dominate -- joggers, walkers, skaters, folks with kids and dogs -- their usage of the MUP always dictates the only sensible approach: slow passes, watchful for erratic turns. Same with cyclists who inexplicably park in the lane to talk, or repair their bikes. It's always been that way, in every city and era where I've seen MUPs.

There's a theory that providing more infrastructure -- such as wider highways -- doesn't relieve congestion but instead creates more users, more demand, more congestion. Maybe. But I don't see any harm in making MUPs -- paved or gravel/chat -- wider than a typical suburban sidewalk. Our MUP varies erratically from wide to narrow and I've never seen an instance in which the wider sections caused more problems. The narrow sections are always a bit sketchy when there are many users, especially with two-way traffic on the narrow sections.

02Giant 

If they stay to their right. Why do so many insist on running on their left hand side?

JonathanGennick 

I've seen that arrangement in Germany quite a bit, where sidewalks are split into cycling and walking zones. Almost got clobbered on my first visit to Heidelberg because I hadn't been aware of why there was a line painted down the middle of where I was walking. I figured it out pretty quick though.

Road the Hudson River Greenway last week. My first time ever going more than around the block in the city. Seemed easy enough. I stayed on the cycling section, rode to the right, had no problems. There were one or two joggers that I encountered, but the path wasn't crowded that time of morning.

Roamer2

Our have centerlines only in tight corners/tunnels. Mostly people play nice & are very friendly.

And then there's the long, wood-planked walkways that stretch over several long sections of marsh were you get stuck behind two slow moms pushing strollers side by side & nattering away.

indyfabz

Maybe it comes from running on the road, where you are supposed to run against traffic.


What I don't understand are those who run down the middle. In Philly we have a four lane road through a park that is closed to cars on weekends during certain months, so it's effectively an MUP at times. I regularly see people running right down the double yellow line, as if they feel they will get lost without that line showing them the way.

DrIsotope

We have a nearby MUP (rail trail) that has the typical 10' paved/concrete path, then a separation, then a 12-15' wide hard-packed path, which is presumably for horses. I say presumably, because I've never seen a horse on it. Anyway, if I were on foot, I would gladly walk the dirt path, because you know, I have knees. But nearly everyone walks on the paved part. So more often than not, I ride on the dirt.

The one that gets me most is the dog walkers who stay exclusively on the paved. I can only imagine that dogs would prefer the dirt.

bikecrate

I dislike the divided MUP's. I don't think it really works. Too many people stray out side their designated lines. Most of the MUP's around here have painted over the lines and posted rules that basically say stay to the right unless passing and cyclist yield to pedestrians. Not perfect, but less complex.

genec

Jeeze... the same arguments the motorists give... "those cyclists just won't stay in their lanes..."

Retro Grouch 

So what are you going to do if someone doesn't stay in their own lane?

I suppose you could call 911 and report them but I kind of suspect that you'll get a lot older waiting for the police to show up

BlazingPedals

The right-of-way is still MUP in nature, even if the users are supposedly segregated.

Abe_Froman

That's about the most concise and accurate description of path conditions I've ever seen.

I'd also add teenagers playing Pokemon Go...though that appears to be a quickly passing fad .

canklecat

After the initial summer burst of enthusiasm and seeing Pokemon hunters all over the MUP, most of them have moved on to the few local hot spots which are much more lucrative. The hot spots are in outdoor plazas and places cyclists would need to ride slowly and carefully anyway -- if at all -- so the Pokemon hunters are actually using these outdoor spaces more appropriately than the cyclists.

Even at the peak of the Pokemon Go phase I still saw more cyclists inexplicably parked in the middle of the MUPs just to chat with friends or inspect and repair their bikes. The Poke folk were never as big a hindrance and usually off to the side of the path.

FrenchFit 

Because most law in America, when it is legislated, requires runners to run against traffic. The thinking is the runner should have the full view of oncoming traffic, vehicles, and knows when it is clear to move left or right.

As a runner, it is uncomfortable to run with bike traffic on MUPS, especially in low light situations. Running with traffic makes makes sense for everyone but the runner.

02Giant 

On the roads, I could see. On the MUP, it makes no sense. Why is the runner in any more danger going with the flow on a MUP than someone walking.

fietsbob

Here the Prudent approach is slow down and use your bell when approaching from the rear of Walkers (& their Dogs) I say 'Hello' as I pass.

FrenchFit 

The difference is riders seem to assume you will maintain your pace and they pass closer, like they are passing a vehicle. Also, a runner is more likely to dodge standing water, branch or a hole with a quick move to the left then someone walking. Virtually no one has issued a warning to me when passing on the left, but I suspect I look pretty steady & predictable.

As I said, it is uncomfortable, but I am not saying I have been hit. Should that occur, it will be miserable for all involved.

scott967

I suspect the road has a camber to it, and even if subtle it is tiring to run on. The centerline is most level.

scott s.
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DaveQ24

I've never seen a divided or marked MUP here. Just a lot of signs that say things like "wheels yield to heels."

I love my gym at 5-6 am - quiet and everything is available. I hate it in the evenings - noisy, crowded and everything is taken or almost. I hate MUPS during "normal" hours for the same reason. Riding at night makes everything so much more enjoyable.