sysrq

Is it still possible to remove the 11t cog while adding bigger granny gear to get fairly tight spacing and range at the same time on a 12 speed cassette?

base2 

Assuming Shimano HG cassette...
No. You can not simply remove the 11 tooth position 1 cog and move every thing over one space because the position 1 cog has specially shaped splines to reach down & encapsulate the splines on the freehub body. The adjacent cog, be it 12, 13, whatever won't interface with the splines properly, if at all.

For a nominal fee, you can buy a 12 tooth position one cog. Sometimes you might be able to find a 14 tooth from a "juniors" cassette. Though they are as rare as hens teeth. Edit: The 14 tooth 11 speed position 1 cog is Shimano part number Y1Y914100 but you would still need to find a position 2. So it would almost make sense to buy a complete Juniors cassette to have what you need to mix/match from. Or just live with a 14,13,15 progression.

I'm not as familiar with 12 speed as I am 11. But my understanding is the cog width & spacing is the same. All the extra gears are inboard towards the spokes utilizing space afforded by the spokes/wheel dish. (I welcome additional information/correction.) So I am under the impression that in this case, pulling from the 11speed group *could possibly* be viable.

tFUnK

Not sure about 12 speed but in the 10 speed days there was a product that consisted of a big cog and you take out a middle cog. To take out the terminal small cog you'll need another terminal small cog to mate with the lockring.

sysrq

Judging by pictures available it seems like the interface is the same as before so the lockring should still be able to press against the 12t cog with some thread lock.

base2 

Maybe there is a mis communication. The splines of the position one cog are long to reach the splines of the freehub body. The splines of the position 2 cog are recessed to allow space for the #1 cog.
The freehub splines do not extend to the end of the freehub body. Placing the #2 in the #1 position will not allow enough interface between the parts nor will it allow the lock ring a proper surface to torque against.

This is not a case of thread locker. This is a case of ill-fitting improper parts wrongly installed.
Don't destroy your freehub body over $11

Russ Roth

For my kid's bike I left off the 11t cog and the 12t did have a splined surface that required a 12t lockring which I happened to have which let me run 11 gears with 12sp shifters on a 10sp hub. So removing the 11t can be done with some of them, only thing I don't know is where you will get a single larger cog and the appripriate spacer. The 11t like the 12t have the spacers built into the cog so you won't have an extra once you remove the smallest cog. But the only larger cogs I know of are for 11sp HG splined wide range MTB cassettes, not certain if the trick can be done with microspline or Srams road or mtb standard.

sysrq

The last cog on my current cassette might be actually held by retaining pins and pressure only.

sysrq

Two years ago had to buy another cassette to get a bigger sprocket, but nowadays they are three times more expensive. Finding some spacers wasn't a problem previously.

Barry2 

What is the model of the derailleur?
What size granny gear are you looking to use?

Barry

sysrq

Will this 12t 1'st 11 speed cog work with 12 speed cassette in terms of spacing?
Tweaking the limit screw might be enough to get the deralleur to move a bit more outwards to compensate for wider spacing.

sysrq

Just planning to add 40t next to 34t sprocket.
It's a 12 speed Deore MTB derailleur and a 105
CS-R7101-12 11-34t road cassette.

Iride01 

If we are talking for a road bike, then how much effort are you wanting to go to for this. The largest four cogs on the 12 speed Shimano road cassettes are fixed together as one unit. At least AFAIK.

As well, you'll probably have to change the DR out to something that can handle the bigger cog.

If you are talking about the mountain bike groups, then I'll stay out of that discussion.

maddog34

huh.. you must be shopping at a ripoff outlet... prices have remained fairly stable for cassettes, from what i've seen.... there's been a 15 to 20% increase in some very recently... certainly not a tripling of price.

by the time you get done digging around on the internet, asking questions seeking answers you appear to already know, and paying to ship single cogs from lord knows where... you've spent way more than just ordering a nice shiny new cassette.

sysrq

It's on Amazon.

sysrq

It shouldn't be a problem adding another sprocket next to a fixed unit with a spacer.
No mountain bike groups just a road cassette with an mtb deralleur.

maddog34

this one? https://www.amazon.com/SHIMANO-CS-R7...s%2C165&sr=8-2

$54/3=you lied. and your plan to "add a 40 next to the 34" simply won't work.

Iride01 

I can't speak for the 12 speed road cassettes, but the for the 11 speed road cassettes the two smallest cogs are made to fit together. So you'd only be able to take out something higher than those if you want the existing lockring to fit properly. Maybe you can cobble something together.

sysrq

It was working last time when I did it on 8 speed cassette.
The concern is about fitting 11 speed 12t 1'st cog on a 12 speed cassette since 12 speed 12t 1'st cogs aren't available.

maddog34

"Just planning to add 40t next to 34t sprocket.
It's a 12 speed Deore MTB derailleur and a 105
CS-R7101-12 11-34t road cassette."

are you familiar with the term "moving the goalposts"?

quit lying... it makes you look like a Liar.

Mackers

Explain how you'll cantilever that 40t sprocket 3.6mm over the hub body towards the spokes........

sysrq

Agreed, this won't won't work without using dished 40t sprocket.
At least successfully eliminated the 11t sprocket and added some 16t from unused 9 speed cassette instead to get rid of the 13% gear step between 17t and 15t.
Had no other choice but to use 12t cog from unused 9 speed cassette lying around and secure it with nine 1 mmm nails in each spline to stop it from rotating.

Hondo6

You put nails in the splines of your 12-speed freehub in order to to keep a non-terminal smallest cog from slipping. Oh . . . kay.

Say, how did your quest to reduce the noise from your freehub ever turn out?

You asked if it was OK to remove some pawls. Did you actually try removing pawls, or finally simply get a different rear hub?

sysrq

Will have to check the performance of the shifting due to possible sprocket misalignment after customizations. Probably the best option was to use 12 speed mtb cassette and then combine it with junior cassette but that might work only with 11 speed cassettes.

I left the pawls in place of course and used semisyntgetic snotty Lucas engine assembly lube mixed with nlg2 grease which keeps them quiet for a bit longer but still after about 100 miles the noise returns again.
Now waiting for a custom built wheel with Bitex BX103R hub which has less points of engagement which means that it should hopefully retain the grease a lot longer to keep it quiet, just like shimano 18pt hubs once greased or oiled with Phill Wood Tenacious oil stays silent indefinitely.