Air

Damn you all - I want bacon now!

webist

I'm glad this was caught. I was trying to think of really big eggs or very tiny bagels

webist

There is indeed much avalable in literature on this topic. As I read it, a "calorie in - calorie out" method is pure math applied to phisiology and is in fact true and valid. I believe it also true that there is a good deal of difference between taking in sugar, fat or protien and an equally differentiated effect of burning fat, carbs or protien. It must also be different when burning nutrients just taken in versus those stored by the body as either fat, glycogen or muscle.

Ideally, I think, one would want to initiate activity using glycogen and/or recently ingested carbs, and then burn converted fat from storage in the body. Use of muscle tissue, while effective in maintaining energy output seems contraindicated for long term fitness and health.

I believe taking in nourishment as needed, in the amounts necessary to sustain actual activity is probably the healthiest and most efficient, assuming an ideal weight. It seems intuitively inefficient to exercise vigorously after fasting, or to eat voraciously prior to idleness. It seems innefficient to store large quantities of excess calories on the body as fat to be called on for energy over time rahter than using it as it comes in.

The practical approach seems to be as active as one can be given life's circumstance, and eat only as much as is necessary to keep one comfortable with some regard for variety of intake.

WonderMonkey

One must also consider the type of activity in all this. For example burning 600 calories running stairs will not have the same end effect as burning 600 calories riding a bike. The body has to recover from the activity and that recovery is significant. I know some want to cut it down to "Here is one sentence, that is all you need to know about it" but it's far more then that.

WonderMonkey

I agree but since my circumstances allow me to choose, I want to choose what is more efficient.

Air

I'll say this.

At this point of my health it won't work for me. I'm fat because I over eat, I over eat because I don't have a switch that tells me I'm full. I'm always hungry, the few times I'm not are after Thanksgiving, Christmas, and Easter dinners.

If I come back hungry there will be no amount of food that will stop that hunger - my friends have seen this and I now give warning bells (I need to eat in 45 mins or else). Until I get my hunger under control I won't be able to leave on an empty stomach and expect to come back to a light meal.

But one day I hope to!

WonderMonkey

That certainly sucks! Is there something the medical community can do to help on this? For me it's similar except I know when I'm not hungry anymore, it's just that I love to eat. I'm a pig! So sort of like you, I know why I'm overweight.

Caincando1

If I can do it, anyone can. I was just like you, well actually I still am. I eat non stop, at least 8-9 times a day. I've still lost a huge amount of weight by changing what I eat and when I eat it. Believe me brother, it is possible.

Air

Grapefruit seed oil helps to keep my appetite down but I also am pretty against anything that you need to keep taking even if it's just some oil. I can control my appetite and I can eat balanced after riding if I start off with something but if I start off hungry or get hungry I probably won't stop eating till the next day. Having healthy ready to go options are useful (big bowl of whole wheat pasta with turkey) so at least I have have a lot and still not blow my days allowance of calories.

Air

Have a meeting with a nutritionist in a few weeks - I have a long list of questions that will hopefully be answered

Usually if I want to start constricting my caloric intake I'll fast for a few days to shrink my stomach which will help with the hunger. Gotta be another way though. And I'm not saying it's impossible - just that like this morning after reading this last night I thought about going for a ride on an empty stomach but was so hungry I knew it was just going to be a bad idea. I had healthy food all day and want to ride but I know as soon as I do anything my hunger is going to sky rocket. So I'll have something sustainable then ride for a few hours so I won't come back starving with the shakes.

WonderMonkey

"The shakes" is just cellular level aerobics, so think of the benefits!

Air

Well sure - and the dizziness is like having a few shots without the calories!

WonderMonkey

Now about the burning when I urinate....

steve2k

That came over as quite condescending knucks, I don't know if that was intentional.

I'm afraid "diet is 90% of any kind of training..." is not all I need to know to answer why cycling to work is stupid when doctors and medical science suggest it makes sense.

If it's genuinely stupid and you have a sensible reason why then I'd be interested to know; I don't want to cycle if you know of a secret reason why it's stupid, that my doctor doesn't know about.

Tom and others have posted lots of good scientific information about diet, and about how what you eat and when you eat it affects your body. It sounds sensible that eating after I've cycled to work could be more benefitial than before.

Medical science puts over a much more convincing argument that it's not stupid than you just stating it's stupid because diet is important.

knucks

No you misunderstood me. I am by no means saying cycling to work is stupid. I'm saying it is stupid to do any type of activity on an empty stomach. Breakfast is the most important meal of the day, why would you begin physical activity WITHOUT it?

steve2k

For the scientific reasons described in lots of the posts in this thread.

I think we're going round in circles. Have a nice weekend.

WhaleOil

Anytime

Tom Stormcrowe

All right, I'll try this again:

You do some MODERATE exercise to ramp up your metabolism before you eat, so you can make the most efficient use of the nutrients instead of storing them away. You supplement the protein to concentrate the burn in the fat to specifically target fat loss and protect the muscle mass. You start out the moderate exercise in a glycogen depleted state to activate the anaerobic metabolism to target the 50:50 protein:fat burn to power your body.

When you restock, the carbs get processed directly to glycogen storage for replenishment rather than storing them to fat....as long as you are still in that magic window of 30-60 minutes post exercise and the metabolism is still ramped up. The protein goes to rebuilding muscle tissue as well in the ramped period and the burned fatty tissue doesn't get replaced as quickly as if eaten after a sedentary period. It's a win/win situation. Genetically, we're hunter/gatherers and this is reflected in how our metabolism stays ramped for maximum efficiency "after the hunt", as well as the tendency to store to fat if sedentary, like it would be in bad weather/winter if we were still hunter gatherers.

Breakfast is STILL the most important meal, this just allows you to make use of it in the most efficient manner possible, metabolically speaking.

Caincando1

I think that's the part that keeps getting missed. No body is saying that people should be doing high intesity exercise on an empty tank.

WonderMonkey

I think people read just enough to fly off to the response they want to make. It's been stated clearly several times.

Tom Stormcrowe

This I would believe. I only keep restating to hopefully get over the noise level enough to get the info to someone that is actually interested in using it.

keithm0

That's certainly the part I missed at first.

I hope to start bicycle commuting to work soon. It's 26 miles round trip, and uphill both ways -- no, really, it is. I live on a hill, my office is on a hill, and there's a valley in between.

I can't imagine doing this ride on an empty stomach. I can imagine doing 30 minutes of other exercise at home, eating breakfast, digesting a while, then biking to work.

Good to know!

WonderMonkey

My goal is to ride to work as well and with a few weeks of riding at lunch I'll be ready with my distance. I'll probably start out by eating a very small meal like an apple or something. I've never had a problem if I didn't get my breakfast in

Neil_B

I can do without dizziness.

Neil_B

+1.