buttdart

....and you hit them - who's at fault?

i'm new to road riding and last night i was riding along the beach with friends which is a very popular spot for cyclists around here. i was going around 22-23mph as i approached a beach cross walk. there is a yield sign sign for cars and a few people were waiting on north bound traffic to pass.

as i was a few feet from the cross walk the last car passed and a 6 year old girl darted out from the east side of the street and nearly ran RIGHT in front of me as . i yelled 'watch out!' and scared the heck out of her but did miss her.

i'm extremely cautious of these types of situations and my surroundings. i guess my assumption is that i couldn't believe she would just dart across the street in front of me. then again - this is the general public we're dealing with. where were the parents?

regardless, i'm glad nothing happened but i was also a bit upset at the whole situation as i rode off.

insight?

Homebrew01

Does not jibe.

Did you have the yield sign ? I can't quite picture the scenario, but you have to follow the same rules as cars.

Was the girl in the crosswalk, or darting out between parked cars ?

p.s. Capitalization is ok to use.

buttdart

it's a tricky scenario to understand. it would be better with a picture. regardless, you're probably right - i'm the moron and could have really hurt her.

this type of thing just doesn't happen on the MTB trails!

RacerOne

You would have been at fault if she was in the crosswalk.

thegunner

it sounds like you were riding on something similar to a MUP (along the beach/crosswalk gives this impression). in which case, you probably shouldn't be going 22-23.

cshell

I'm more interested in the origin of the screen name "Buttdart".

Phantoj

??? so there is a sign reminding cars to yield to peds in crosswalk, and the auto drivers were ignoring it?

buttdart

without a doubt. that was another part of the issue.

group rides with 40-80 rides go along this same road at 30mph+ on a regular basis. i was actually going pretty slow in comparison.

topflightpro

You would have been at fault.

While riding your bicycle, you are considered a vehicle on the road and as such are subject to almost all the same laws regarding traffic flow as cars are. You are supposed to stop at stop signs and red lights and yield at yield signs.

Phantoj

https://www.dot.state.fl.us/safety/pe...e_pedLaws.shtm

I'm not a lawyer... Basically, you are supposed to yield to pedestrians wanting to cross. If a ped runs out in front of you so fast that it's impossible for you to yield, the ped is at fault. So, you would probably be able to argue that it was the little girl's fault. And someone else could argue it was your fault.

Bottom line: keep an eye out for trouble; especially be careful around kids.

Also note:
Driver duty to exercise care
(Section 316.130(15), F.S.)

Notwithstanding other provisions of this chapter, every driver of a vehicle shall exercise due care to avoid colliding with any pedestrian or any person propelling a human-powered vehicle and give warning when necessary and exercise proper precaution upon observing any child or any obviously confused or incapacitated person.

hiker88

Did she have a musette bag?

madpogue 

No, there isn't. There's no such thing as a "yield sign for cars". The yield sign is for VEHICLES, which applies to you. In most states, even if there isn't a yield sign, if there's a crosswalk, pedestrians have the right of way and in/on any vehicle, you're required to yield to them.

Quel

Correct. If not in the sidewalk and you couldn't avoid her, then that's another story. Donte Stallworth only got 30 days in jail for killing someone while driving drunk because they ran out in front of him outside the intersection.

buttdart

thanks for the replies!

FlashBazbo

In many states, a 6 year old can't be negligent as a matter of law. You would have a duty to be traveling slowly enough, be vigilant enough, etc. to avoid hitting a 6-year old. Most collisions, if fault were assigned, would assign the fault to you, even without the crosswalk or the yield sign.

The crosswalk makes it pretty foreseeable that that pedestrians could be present -- amping up your duty to be careful. The yield sign takes the whole thing out of doubt.

buttdart

guilty as charged.

will learn from this.

Inertianinja

these situations are really context specific.

i hit a pedestrian once, and *almost* hit pedestrians on a regular basis in Central Park in NYC.
it is a 6-mile loop with 2 traffic lanes, a bike lane, a runner lane, a non-road running path, and a running track, and a sidewalk. car traffic is almost always restricted and there are crosswalks.
however, everybody (i admit, i've acted like this) acts like they own the park or they're just too stupid to pay attention to anyone else.
the runners go in the traffic lanes, often backwards from the direction of traffic (marked on the ground.)
the walkers walk in the traffic lanes.
the bikers rarely go above the speed limit (25)
the tourists wander into the traffic lanes (7-person families, wandering like zombies) and stop look down the road in the OPPOSITE direction of traffic, then FREEZE like deer when you call out to them. the woman i hit (she was fine) did this.
the NYC natives cross at the crosswalks, but act like they don't see traffic or are too cool to care, so they walk slowly without looking.
i swear, it's worse than driving down broadway with all the cabs.

to deal with this danger, i ride extremely early in the morning or late at night.

vdek

What was the speed limit on the road? I'm going to guess something like 15mph...

Inertianinja

right. in terms of fault, think about what you would say as a cyclist being hit by a car.

i think that if a car sees a cyclist, they should be extra careful not to hit them, even if the cyclist is being erratic. because everyone knows that it's likely for a cyclist to ride erratically, the cars should compensate.

hence, when i see kids on the street, i ride extra carefully even though i may have the right of way. no out-of-the-saddle sprints when kids are near.

pacificaslim

Huh? Are there streets with 15mph speed limits? I've never seen anything lower than 25mph in the states I've been in. Which brings up the point that all the declarations about what bicycles are or are supposed to do vary by state. For example, someone said bicycles are "vehicles", well, not in my state (california). Here they are defined as "devices," in the law with certain characteristics and vehicles are defined as non-human powered things only.

But law aside, we just need to be aware of situations where people could dart out in front of us. True blame is for the courts to decide, but let's just do our best out there.

bonz50

as a ped i've been drilled by bikes twice... downtown chicago, crossing a one way street (North Clark st by the river for those who know the area) and the biker was going the wrong way... I looked to the right (the direction traffic was coming) and when clear I stepped out, bike drilled me and sent me and him into the path of traffic... this happened twice at the exact same location... I was kinda pissed about it... damn bike messengers, ride like the rules don't apply...

Inertianinja

there are definitely limits of 15 and less in NY
Also in NY, a bicycle is required to follow all the rules of the road that a car does (it's in the Vehicle and Traffic law. here's a site with a list: https://www.bicycledefensefund.org/bikelaw.html)

the part of the law that doesn't apply to bikes is things like DWI - those require a "motor vehicle" which is defined as "a vehicle that is powered by anything other than muscular power" or, apparently, anything that Fabian Cancellara is riding.

buttdart

i just looked at a street view and the only sign i see is a pedestrian crossing with an arrow point down toward the middle of the road.

maybe the yield sign is new or i had some out of body experience and dreamt that there was a yield sign? wtf.

crhilton

+1

It sounds to me like the situation called for caution coming into it and a more appropriate speed might have been in the 15mph area, with hands near the brakes and ready to stop. The motorists are probably coming into this situation with their foot hovering over the brake.

Phantoj

"Yield to Pedestrians in Crosswalk" sign is redundant -- it's just a reminder of the law.