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How Do You Deal With Harassment?

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How Do You Deal With Harassment?

Old 08-12-19, 11:19 AM
  #126  
downhillmaster
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On the flip side I always make sure to give a nice little thank you wave to drivers who acknowledge me and wait to pull out from a side street in front of me.
Not the drivers that do weird **** just because they see a bike though. Just the courteous ones with what you can tell is a little extra bicycle awareness
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Old 08-12-19, 11:46 AM
  #127  
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Like downhillmaster, I wave, smile, and mouth "thank you!" to drivers who go out of their way to be courteous to me. And most motorists are reasonable and even courteous. I have also, on one or two occasions, chased down a motorist in order to apologize after I've done something boneheaded. I think we need to help create positive feelings towards cyclists.

I have only been harassed once or twice; more common is the motorist who endangers me through inattention or the mistaken belief that cars always have the right-of-way over bikes and even pedestrians. With such people, I'm not sure that calm logic will ever make a dent.

I did once chase down a woman who, in just one intersection, managed to endanger my wife twice while executing a turn. After catching her in her driveway, I explained just how much she'd be liable for in the event of a wrongful death lawsuit -- basically, the present value of my young (and very well-educated) wife's lifetime earnings stream. After running through the 'back of the envelope' calculations aloud, I asked if she had a couple million bucks in the bank - or at least that much insurance coverage. "Well, no...." was the answer.
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Old 08-12-19, 12:24 PM
  #128  
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Originally Posted by downhillmaster View Post
While riding this past Sunday a young kid and his gf buzzed by me blaring their horn and shouting at me to get off the road. About a 1/4 mile up they had to wait at a stop sign so I caught up to them. I switched lanes and as I slowly rolled past his open driver side window I told him his gf is a skank.
The gutless punk didnít even pull over.
The youth of today is in pretty bad shape
i had a very similar incident years ago. 2 punks thought it would be funny to shout insults as they drove by. i caught them 1/4 mile up the street at a red light. pulled up to the passenger window (it was rolled-up now...). tapped on it a few times. no reaction from either kid. tapped again, a little harder. again, nothing (i was looking for wet spots on their pants at this point...). i never said a word, just letting my menacing presence scare the crap out of them. very amusing !
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Old 08-12-19, 02:08 PM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by adablduya View Post
i had a very similar incident years ago. 2 punks thought it would be funny to shout insults as they drove by. i caught them 1/4 mile up the street at a red light. pulled up to the passenger window (it was rolled-up now...). tapped on it a few times. no reaction from either kid. tapped again, a little harder. again, nothing (i was looking for wet spots on their pants at this point...). i never said a word, just letting my menacing presence scare the crap out of them. very amusing !
I'll top that with a second-hand story, told to me by the guy who got me into cycling. Back in the '70s, when he commuted by bike, he carried a big heavy lock and chain like a bandolier, diagonally over his chest. (Pretty common before U-locks.) After getting harassed by a motorist, be caught up to the car at an intersection. While riding by, he pulled the chain off himself, swung it over his head a few times, and SLAM! banged it into the car's fender. Then he took off like a bat out of hell.
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Old 08-12-19, 05:32 PM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
I will continue to break traffic laws when it serves the greater good of my safety and overall traffic flow. I don't feel any duty whatsoever to appease law breaking motorists by not breaking the law. . . . There is something about cyclists that just causes motorists to steam, . . .

I absolutely work cooperatively with traffic when I bicycle. There are times I'll pull off the road to let traffic by if I need to. I am always looking to mesh with motor vehicle traffic as seamlessly as I safely can. I do it when I drive too. I even do it when I walk.
Paul,
Can you give one or two good examples of traffic laws you break that serves the greater good of your safety and overall traffic flow?

"There is something about cyclists that just causes motorists to steam," I think they steam because they have been inconvenienced by a bicyclist doing something that he shouldn't have been doing, like getting in their way when there was as an alternative*, or the constant stop sign running by bicyclists. *and I don't mean taking a parallel MUPS vs. a street, though I know here in Albuquerque that does steam some of them. I just don't think wearing spandex or jersey with logos steam them.

But thanks for the last paragraph! If more bicyclist did those sort of things, I'd think we'd have few easily steamed motorists.
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Old 08-12-19, 05:45 PM
  #131  
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When people yell from a vehicle in passing, it's often hard to hear what they're actually yelling. I didn't know what a guy was yelling toward the end of my ride yesterday. When I got home and saw the reflection of my headlight in the front door, I realized he was saying "Your light is dying."

I always assume anything I hear but don't understand must be well intentioned. Sometimes it really is.
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Old 08-13-19, 05:50 AM
  #132  
Paul Barnard
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Originally Posted by phillman5 View Post
Paul,
Can you give one or two good examples of traffic laws you break that serves the greater good of your safety and overall traffic flow?

"There is something about cyclists that just causes motorists to steam," I think they steam because they have been inconvenienced by a bicyclist doing something that he shouldn't have been doing, like getting in their way when there was as an alternative*, or the constant stop sign running by bicyclists. *and I don't mean taking a parallel MUPS vs. a street, though I know here in Albuquerque that does steam some of them. I just don't think wearing spandex or jersey with logos steam them.

But thanks for the last paragraph! If more bicyclist did those sort of things, I'd think we'd have few easily steamed motorists.
I'll give you one real quick here. I live about 3 miles from a bike path on the MS River Levee. I can pedal there without encountering any heavy traffic if I stay off of W. Metairie Rd. W Metairie can see pulses of heavy traffic depending upon the timing of the lights. It is a divided 4 lane with narrow lanes. There's no room for lane sharing. It is very rare for cyclists to use it, so motorists are not expecting cyclists and have no experience interacting with them there.

Traveling south on Pasadena I come to West Metairie. I need to get on Houma. To do so legally I'd have to pedal about 1/4 mile west on W Metairie, then about the same distance back east. In doing so I'd likely have to deal with several of those pulses of traffic. Instead, I set up like I am going to take the U turn between Houma and Pasadena, then I wait for a break in traffic and go about 75 yards the wrong way on W Metairie to get to Houma.

In doing so I keep myself off of a bad cycling road and out of an unsafe situation for the most part. No motorists are delayed or have to deal with me at all. I enhance my safety and the overall flow of traffic.

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Old 08-13-19, 08:40 AM
  #133  
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Originally Posted by phillman5 View Post
I think they steam because they have been inconvenienced by a bicyclist doing something that he shouldn't have been doing, like getting in their way when there was as an alternative*, or the constant stop sign running by bicyclists. *and I don't mean taking a parallel MUPS vs. a street, though I know here in Albuquerque that does steam some of them. I just don't think wearing spandex or jersey with logos steam them.

I don't buy that. You're suggesting that it's the sins of some riders being generalized onto all riders or that riders generally break the law more than other classes of vehicles in ways that inconvenience drivers. Problem with this is I see drivers doing exactly the same things you're describing at a far higher rate and to greater inconvenience than cyclists--speeding, stop-sign rolling, speeding up on the red light, turning from the wrong lane, unsignaled lane changes and turns, double parking, sitting at green lights because they're looking at their phone, etc. When I'm driving, I'm inconvenienced and endangered by drivers' behaviors far more often than cyclists--it's not even close. People seem to accept that stuff as a matter of course without a honk or a comment yelled out a window. Meantime, if I don't wait out a red light on my bike at a three way intersection riding on the shoulder on the side with no intersecting road, someone is liable to yell or honk at me even though I am literally not on or crossing a traffic lane, and cannot therefore have any impact on the flow of traffic. And yes, this has happened several times at an intersection with a broad enough shoulder that I am at least 6 feet from the traffic lane.

Basically, I'm claiming it's confirmation bias--people remember bicycle infractions because they don't like cyclists, not the other way around.
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Old 08-13-19, 11:22 AM
  #134  
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
Traveling south on Pasadena I come to West Metairie. I need to get on Houma. To do so legally I'd have to pedal about 1/4 mile west on W Metairie, then about the same distance back east. In doing so I'd likely have to deal with several of those pulses of traffic. Instead, I set up like I am going to take the U turn between Houma and Pasadena, then I wait for a break in traffic and go about 75 yards the wrong way on W Metairie to get to Houma.
Paul,
Fair enough! Its just when I try something like that, I'll misjudge the traffic pulse timing and get caught going the wrong way with the pulse coming right at me (and seemingly no out). But it seems you have the timing down to a science!
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Old 08-13-19, 11:31 AM
  #135  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I don't buy that.

Basically, I'm claiming it's confirmation bias--people remember bicycle infractions because they don't like cyclists, not the other way around.
I agree with all you said. But the question is why they don't like cyclists, and try to come up with some reasons, and lets try to take those away.
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Old 08-13-19, 11:48 AM
  #136  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I don't buy that. You're suggesting that it's the sins of some riders being generalized onto all riders or that riders generally break the law more than other classes of vehicles in ways that inconvenience drivers. Problem with this is I see drivers doing exactly the same things you're describing at a far higher rate and to greater inconvenience than cyclists--speeding, stop-sign rolling, speeding up on the red light, turning from the wrong lane, unsignaled lane changes and turns, double parking, sitting at green lights because they're looking at their phone, etc. When I'm driving, I'm inconvenienced and endangered by drivers' behaviors far more often than cyclists--it's not even close. People seem to accept that stuff as a matter of course without a honk or a comment yelled out a window. Meantime, if I don't wait out a red light on my bike at a three way intersection riding on the shoulder on the side with no intersecting road, someone is liable to yell or honk at me even though I am literally not on or crossing a traffic lane, and cannot therefore have any impact on the flow of traffic. And yes, this has happened several times at an intersection with a broad enough shoulder that I am at least 6 feet from the traffic lane.

Basically, I'm claiming it's confirmation bias--people remember bicycle infractions because they don't like cyclists, not the other way around.
Exactly. I was noting the other day, as I was passing a long line of traffic, following docilely behind a huge tractor, that if it had been me on my bicycle taking the lane (and keep in mind, I'm passing these guys), they would have been doing everything in their power, often breaking the law, to get by me.
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Old 08-13-19, 12:21 PM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by phillman5 View Post
I agree with all you said. But the question is why they don't like cyclists, and try to come up with some reasons, and lets try to take those away.

Yeah, no. I think it makes more sense to focus directly on the drivers who are causing the problems, not trying to figure out what "triggers" the bullies. For all I know, maybe their mommies didn't love them enough.

I want more cyclists standing up for themselves and telling off these people--they seem to think it's socially acceptable to do this, some serious shaming needs to occur. I'm all for identifying these people online, reporting them to the police, their employers, whatever it's going to take. When you hear a conversation where someone is just trash talking cyclists, say something. It needs to become socially unacceptable to act this way. Right now, it's borderline normal.

That said, if you're a jackass cyclist running around scaring pedestrians, you deserve the same treatment.
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Old 08-13-19, 01:40 PM
  #138  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post


I want more cyclists standing up for themselves and telling off these people--they seem to think it's socially acceptable to do this, some serious shaming needs to occur. I'm all for identifying these people online, reporting them to the police, their employers, whatever it's going to take.


That said, if you're a jackass cyclist running around scaring pedestrians, you deserve the same treatment.

I did my part a couple of years ago. When I first heard about 'Rolling Coal' I was flabbergasted! I was pointed to a guy called something Bus Joey that posted videos on YouTube of him 'Rolling Coal' at just about everybody, including mothers with baby strollers. I posted pictures of socks from a local gift shop that read "I am an A$$H..." (the socks were not censored, but BF censors me), said I wanted to send them to him, but needed his address. He said he'd wear them gladly and posted his PO Box, City and state, but that was close enough. E-mailed bike clubs in the area to tell them to take the videos to the police. I also called the local police myself and gave the the URL to the videos. The officer I talked to could identify many of the roads in the video, and one place the idiot shows his 'Bus' and license plate. Don't know what happened after that, but it was off my mind, I tried. But what really gripes me is these guys purposefully modify their diesel trucks, then claim "I can't help it, its a diesel, get over it". I was ready to fly up to the areas, hire some thugs, find this guy, and stick his nose up his exhaust pipe and gun it for 2 minutes, and I don't even live in the same or adjoining state. Its also amazing how many thumbs up these videos get.


Agree with last statement too!

Last edited by phillman5; 08-13-19 at 01:44 PM.
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Old 08-13-19, 05:55 PM
  #139  
anon06
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I finally received feedback from the cycling coalition. They mentioned that they do work to help other organizations and recommended that I could help by linking to their videos on social media and help get the announcement on a local radio station.

The thing is, I'm not on social media (and don't have friends) and am not friends with locals (they're older and already have friends and family; and, as I mentioned earlier, they're not accepting of people who are different from them: LGBT+, POC, people who weren't born here, etc., so I don't bother trying to make friends with people like that, who've made it very clear that they wouldn't like me, anyway).

Many locals are older people who are not as into social media as younger people. So, using social media doesn't seem to be helpful in this area. Plus, I don't think a radio station would be willing or care about what I have to say about cycling safety, anyway. I'm sure they'd want me to pay for the advertisements, and I don't have the money for that.

Last edited by anon06; 08-13-19 at 06:04 PM.
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Old 08-14-19, 08:45 AM
  #140  
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Originally Posted by anon06 View Post
Hi, everyone. I was wondering how all of you manage to deal with being harassed by motorists (i.e. honked at or shouted at to "use the sidewalk"), for not doing anything illegal, but simply by cycling, legally, on the road (sometimes, cycling in the middle of the lane, for safety reasons, due to potholes and unsafe crack on the far side of the road).
Ha, ha. Just happened to me yesterday. At a major intersection on the way home, I'm waiting at the red light and in the centre of the lane. Too often, when I'm just right of centre, some cars still squeeze by causing a dangerous close pass.

So along comes someone behind me and I hear a light honk. I ignore. I look ahead and see a bus picking up and dropping off passengers. Then another honk. The light turns green, and as I'm pedalling across the intersection, this guy keeps honking. And as I turn right into the gas station (which is how I do my left turn into my neighbourhood) he honks one last time as he finally gets to go faster. It's a Ford F-150 pickup.

Last edited by Daniel4; 08-14-19 at 08:48 AM.
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Old 08-15-19, 07:55 AM
  #141  
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Originally Posted by phillman5 View Post
I did my part a couple of years ago. When I first heard about 'Rolling Coal' I was flabbergasted! I was pointed to a guy called something Bus Joey that posted videos on YouTube of him 'Rolling Coal' at just about everybody, including mothers with baby strollers. I posted pictures of socks from a local gift shop that read "I am an A$$H..." (the socks were not censored, but BF censors me), said I wanted to send them to him, but needed his address. He said he'd wear them gladly and posted his PO Box, City and state, but that was close enough. E-mailed bike clubs in the area to tell them to take the videos to the police. I also called the local police myself and gave the the URL to the videos. The officer I talked to could identify many of the roads in the video, and one place the idiot shows his 'Bus' and license plate. Don't know what happened after that, but it was off my mind, I tried. But what really gripes me is these guys purposefully modify their diesel trucks, then claim "I can't help it, its a diesel, get over it". I was ready to fly up to the areas, hire some thugs, find this guy, and stick his nose up his exhaust pipe and gun it for 2 minutes, and I don't even live in the same or adjoining state. Its also amazing how many thumbs up these videos get.
Agree with last statement too!
As I have mentioned before, the soot in diesel smoke is a known carcinogen. People who "Roll coal" are intentionally exposing people to a harmful substance that can cause cancer. It is no different than if someone with aids spits blood in your face. I've seen lildiques in big trucks do it to cyclists, pedestrians, protesters, you name it... and I find it infuriating.

https://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancer...nd-cancer.html
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Old 08-15-19, 08:04 AM
  #142  
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Originally Posted by bakerjw View Post
As I have mentioned before, the soot in diesel smoke is a known carcinogen. People who "Roll coal" are intentionally exposing people to a harmful substance that can cause cancer. It is no different than if someone with aids spits blood in your face. I've seen lildiques in big trucks do it to cyclists, pedestrians, protesters, you name it... and I find it infuriating.

https://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancer...nd-cancer.html
That sort of behaviour is no different from the days when cigarette smokers blew smoke in your face when you complain about the second-hand smoke. Since then, we've had "smoking in the work place" legislations. At first there was backlash accusing such legislation was reminiscient of a N*zi state. I even read an article in the newspaper where one person declared he was moving back to Australia because they still allowed smoking in the workplace. That was in the early 2000s. Today I believe Australia also has smoking in the workplace legislation.

But I digress. In Toronto, although I still experience inconsiderate drivers, I believe the driving wrt cycling has been noticeably improved as compared to pre-Rob Ford days.
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Old 08-15-19, 10:53 AM
  #143  
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I am a courteous cyclist. When a car gives me wide berth, I wave and give a thumbs up as conditions permit. If I am grinding up a hill, I'll slow at a clear spot and wave cars around. I get a lot of waves back or a toot on the horn in appreciation.

<vent on>
Yesterday on my ride home, a left turning car killed my momentum for my upcoming left turn in about 100 feet. After getting by the car, I was standing on the pedals to speed up for the turn. I then had a pickup surge and swerve across my front tire to get past me with approaching traffic coming towards us. I yelled "Seriously?" and flipped him off. He hit the brakes, stopped and started to get out of his truck on a busy 2 lane road. This was 2 firsts. The first time that I'd been passed that close and the first time that someone was going to do... whatever... Get in my face, push me down. hit me or worse. Anyways, there was a guy on Harley behind me in disbelief that the guy had stopped, so he started yelling at the guy he drove off. The guy on the Harley said something to the effect that he was going to have words with the guy. I don't know what came of it, but it really pissed me off. Someone buzzes me that close and then gets pissed at me for pointing out their lack of respect.

I know that we all deal with it, but it aggravates the heck out of me. I really need to start running my camera to catch these events when I am out in the world.
<vent off>

Last edited by bakerjw; 08-15-19 at 10:53 AM. Reason: Clarifying the venting...
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Old 08-16-19, 03:26 PM
  #144  
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I just try to remain as calm as possible. Not much else you can do. =/
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Old 08-16-19, 05:00 PM
  #145  
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why do we have to deal with other people's problems ?
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Old 08-16-19, 06:44 PM
  #146  
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First rule is to know your rights and be predictable.
Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
Bad drivers get mad and yell at anybody. They yell at each other and they yell at pedestrians.

Your city council doesn't do anything because they will be targetting their own voters. Eventually, someone will start labelling you as a special-interest group.

If you engage, it'll only be a matter of time when the confrontation will escalate. You know how quickly internet interactions can degenerate. On the road it can get worse. If you have to say something, just tell the harrassers to call the cops.
This.

Its about anybody that gets in their way, and cyclist are no exception. Not engaging is a good idea, and you're not going to educate anybody on a busy roadway. I use one response only -- read the handbook. Other than that I ignore them but keep a watchful eye out for dangers the whole time.
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Old 08-16-19, 06:52 PM
  #147  
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Originally Posted by holytrousers View Post
why do we have to deal with other people's problems ?
Because they drive 2 ton+ vehicles whose bumpers you do NOT, want to bounce off Ö
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Old 08-16-19, 07:30 PM
  #148  
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Originally Posted by phillman5 View Post
Paul,
Can you give one or two good examples of traffic laws you break that serves the greater good of your safety and overall traffic flow?
I have no problem violating "No bikes on sidewalks" laws when it is safer to be off the road.

There is a section of my commute that runs along a major arterial. The right lane is a right turn only lane onto a state highway. There is a sidewalk along the arterial that in six years, I have never seen a pedestrian on. So rather than get into traffic and hold up either the people turning right, or the people going straight if I decide to get in the "proper" lane, I get on the sidewalk and cross the highway using the pedestrian walk signal. It's safer for me. It's much more polite to the people driving. And most importantly, it's safer for me.

https://goo.gl/maps/eLTkt3R5npi1py8B6

I have no idea what the law is about riding that bit of sidewalk, because I don't care what the law is. I'm riding the sidewalk.

My commute is about 14 miles of MUP bliss, and about a mile of sheer terror, most of which is along this road.
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Old 08-16-19, 07:51 PM
  #149  
phillman5
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Originally Posted by jeromeoneil View Post
I have no problem violating "No bikes on sidewalks" laws when it is safer to be off the road.

https://goo.gl/maps/eLTkt3R5npi1py8B6

I have no idea what the law is about riding that bit of sidewalk, because I don't care what the law is. I'm riding the sidewalk.

My commute is . . . and about a mile of sheer terror,
You might not be breaking the law riding on that side walk, and I'm sure a police officer would see your side of the problem.

But on the map you posted, it looks like One Stop Auto Sales is in the middle of Rainier Ave. What are those propeller looking things in the parking lot just north and to the east of City Center, there is like three in a row? And do they let cars part like that just to the right of City Center, looks like a number of cars are boxed in?

The worst terror (cycling or not) I had was on a cross country ride. I think it was south west of Chicago, we had a curved to the left over pass that had no shoulder and the guardrails were on the white line, we literally had no room and with saddle bags it was even worse and we hit it at rush hour. Then at the bottom was a Y and we needed to take the left fork. We must have waited 15 minutes for a break in the traffic.

Last edited by phillman5; 08-16-19 at 07:57 PM.
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Old 08-16-19, 07:56 PM
  #150  
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Originally Posted by 350htrr View Post
OK, I did not read through this whole tread, since I had a thread about this same subject 5 or so years ago.... and... this is my SOLUTION... every time someone does something you think is in-appropriate/dangerous to you personally, passing you too close, cutting you off, opening the passenger door to scare you, or even just passing you within a foot and leaving a foot or two towards the centre line... I say this to myself... I Hope you have a bad day, (to myself) like we both would have had, if you would have miss-judged your maneuver, just a little bit/a weeee bit to much and bumped me into the ditch... I say that EVERY time someone pisses me off/scares me...

BUT guess what... I also say (to myself) things like I hope you have a great day, I hope you have a great holiday, or I hope you have a great week, Ö and I end up having a good ride 99.99% of the time because the good always outweighs the bad... IN MY EXPERIANCE, anyways...
I really like your second attitude, and that's what happens when one realizes that it's they who got a problem, and that one should be grateful for not having to live with such issues.
But if one gets angry, it's as if that harassment was his problem : why is that wrong ? to begin with, it won't help the other change. but the real issue is that if one gets affected, it means one seeks revenge. It's a sign that one is like that person because the stupidity has been welcomed, approved and nurtured. and that is a problem : it turns out that we are caught in the same spiral of hate. the other probably did it because someone did it to him earlier. When we get angry we fail to see that simple truth and we perpetuate the evil. Isn't it therefore more appropriate to see harassment as a weakness (as many have realized) and be rather ... different ?
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