CliffordK

What I will say, in my own life, my road first bike was a little green 24" road bike (hand-me-down from my brother). It was passed on to another kid years ago, but looking back, I think it was an Gitane 5-speed.

But, that 24" road bike really set the stage for continuing riding today. A bit off an on in the number of miles, but I've ridden a road bike and bike commuted pretty consistently throughout my life.

My second bike was a older Viscount. I don't remember the fork, but it was stolen, I think my Freshman year in High School.

I think that is the biggest danger of giving a young kid a $1K+ bicycle. It may well end up stolen or broken.

My third bike was bought as an "interim bike". An old Astra, I think. By that time my family was planning a few months sabbatical in Italy, which I picked up my Colnago Super between my Freshman and Sophomore years in High School. That now old Colnago has treated me well for decades, only recently becoming mostly replaced (but still owned).

I suppose the point is that kids will change and evolve over time, but what they learn as a young kid will stick with them for many years.

Personally, I've never really been attracted to off-road riding, in part since I started on the road so young.

CliffordK

I had 4-H money as a kid, and bought every bike I've owned since that first 24" Gitane. And, pretty much every one was bought used too.

Hard to say where one makes that leap from receiving gifts to buying.

rms13

Tried shims on my wife's road bike that was previous generation Sora. The shims bring the lever closer to the drops but does nothing to change the effort to brake from hoods. Ended up converting her bike to flat bars and she was happier with that. She's a casual rider. Shimano made women specific brifters for a short time but nearly impossible to find them now. Sram levers have adjustment to bring the lever closer to the drops but not sure if that changes the amount of effort needed to brake from drops. Newer Shimano might have these adjustments but I haven't looked into it in a while

CliffordK

One point is that it takes a lot less braking force to stop a 60 pound kid than a 200 pound adult.

But, the new brakes are a handful.

The two Fuji Ace bikes I bought had brake levers similar to the Dia Compe Blaze brakes, which are much smaller than even the modern Tektro brake levers, but seemed to fit well.

Of course, that means some other mounting for shifters (DT, Stem, Bar End, to of the bar paddles, etc).

I'm seeing a couple of references to the "Women's Brifters", but can't find details. Have you heard any model numbers?

fietsbob

NB, a small sized frame with full sized wheels , means toe - front wheel overlap
is guaranteed to be a problem..

rms13

Looking back, it is the Shimano R700 that I was thinking of. Not actually women specific but if you read around here and other forums many women recommended them for small hands to be able to wrap around the hood/brakes. But those are 10 years old so possibly there are newer options that are just as good

CliffordK

Hmmm... I see they come with the wedges. They don't look much different from the other Shimano levers. Perhaps a little more compact than more vintage 6500 or so series levers.

But, it is hard to judge from a photo. I don't think I have any of those laying around here.

I probably have enough spares around here that I could do some comparison between other models, although

They are listed as "short reach" and for "small hands". 10 speed.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Shimano-ST-...d/123484264284

The hoods listed seem to be for multiple models of brakes.

Searching on E-Bay, Microshift comes up with several levers designated as "short reach" or "short pull". If one uses a short pull lever with a medium pull brake caliper, then the lever will have more range of movement, but less force at the lever, and more at the caliper.

One other thought. I'm not a big fan of training kids to use interrupter brakes (I'd rather they find the normal drop bar brakes). But, this might be a case when interrupter brakes would be of benefit.

They usually aren't that big, so one may not get a lot of leverage. They may also have the reach adjustable (screw?). But, it may be enough.

tigat

OP: I think your original notion with the ladies, small carbon frame Felt is spot on.

Looking to solve a different problem a few years ago, I bought a Felt F95 Jr. for my daughter. She has Down syndrome, is 4'9" and will be there forever. The advantages I saw at the time were the 650c wheels, the narrower bars and the smaller shift and brake levers. I also had interrupter brakes put on.

At the end of the day, the bike was a bit twitchy, surprisingly heavy, and with less than stellar components. No knock on Felt-the bike was exactly what it was supoposed to be, but I switched her over to a Trek Domane WSD last year, and did a flat bar conversion, which is working out great.

The best news, and why I agree with your plan, is we have used the Felt as a loaner for house guests, and adjusted it to fit riders as big as 5'6". Perhaps not optimal, but viable for rides up to 30 miles or more.

So, I could see at least 4 years of happy riding for your daughter, on a light bike with great components, followed by four more years for daughter 2. That sounds like a wise investment to me, not a waste at all.

kingston 

It's your money so spend it however makes you happy, but kids don't need expensive bikes unless they race IMO. I have 4 kids ranging from 15-19. They have all always had a bike and none of them cost more than $350. My youngest daughter went on a 2 week tour of northern Michigan last summer on a fairly low end Trek mountain bike with some smooth tires, and she told me it was the best bike on the tour for the mixed surfaces they were riding. My 16 year old next-door neighbor races mountain bikes and normally rides a fancy carbon fiber mountain bike. He goes to boarding school and was home for the summer, so I loaned him my 1981 trek 613 for him to try road cycling. He works at a bike shop and did several thousand miles of fast group rides on that bike and told me that keeping up with the group on that bike was not a problem. I went out with him a few times, including one century, and he was fast enough to keep up with me on that bike. At the end of the summer he used the money he earned at the bike shop to buy a carbon Emonda so he can start racing criteriums. When I was 8, I rode RAGBRAI on a 5-speed Schwinn Stingray with drop-bars, stem shifter and a road saddle. Moved up to a Varsity when I outgrew the Stingray and did 5 RAGBRAI's and thousands of training miles on those two bikes by the time I was 12. My thinking is that since kids aren't very fast anyway, expensive lightweight bikes are a waste of money. Racing is a different story obviously. Again, your money, so you should buy your daughter a nice bike if you think it will make riding with her more fun, but go into it knowing that kids grow so you will need to get a bigger one in a couple of years. Zero chance it will fit for 5-6 seasons.

SashaSolitaire

Thanks for your take, Tigat.

SashaSolitaire

Appreciate your input, Kingston. We have two daughters, 8 and 5. This is for the older daughter and the hope is that we can pass this along to the younger one when she grows up. Both of them have been in the same height/weight groups at their respective ages, and the expectation (fingers crossed) is that it will continue as they grow. My idea is to have them enjoy cycling, and equipment does play a major role in that. I am looking at the other recommendations by the group, and most of them fall in the $800-$1000 range. Considering everything, including cheaper options.

kingston 

I sincerely hope it works out for you. I had zero success getting any of my kids interested in my hobbies. Once they got involved in organized team sports there wasn't much time for anything else. Having spent 10's of thousands of dollars on their sports over the years, maybe it would have been smarter to get them each a nice bike when they were 8 .

Carbonfiberboy 

If she loves riding, encourage her. That bike should do it nicely.

Nachoman

I was surfing around Nashbar's website and ran across this that might work:
https://www.bikenashbar.com/cycling/...try-drop-yb-sd

kingston 

That's a great little bike for around four hundred bucks during the 30% off sale.

SashaSolitaire

It's been a while, and I hadn't responded. Thanks to everyone for their suggestions. Ultimately, we got her a Liv Alight - 2 700c bicycle. She was not comfortable with the Felt, and we collectively decided that we can revisit the road bikes in a few years. This is what she finally got (in purple). She has put in a couple of hundred miles already on her bike, and will be joining me on the 33 mile Roe Jan Ramble this September. Hope to get her into another ride (Tour De Bronx) possibly before that.

https://www.liv-cycling.com/us/alight-2-2018

Doge

As a parent, you are the best read on your kid. That looked like a good setup, but a bit pricey. As you will be changing a lot, seems a bit much for a first bike.
Mine was very serious and racing USAC at age 8 - turns out the only USAC licensed 8 year old then.

Bike history:
Age 3 some little pee-wee bike.
Age 4 a Trek like Lance - pee-wee, but all he wanted to do was hill climbs.
At age 6 I bought an off the rack FUGI ~$500. He did hill climbs with mom (a very elite female). Mom said he was pretty fast.
By 8 I just did the eBay thing and re-purposed parts posted below for age comparison.
By 10 full Di2 carbon Raleigh Team pro frame. FELT TK2 Track.
Age 13/14 did another - Cannondale.
Age 15 did MASI, 16 S-Works Venge, and FELT DA2 and team S-Works Tarmac a couple others - at 19 added MASI cx, Specalized MTB, FUJI track.
He's still riding the 15/16 bikes.


So it depends.

Doge

Right choice.
Right thinking.

SashaSolitaire

Wow. Impressed with your son and your family overall. Thanks for the information. Gives me something to let show my daughter what to aspire for :-)

estasnyc

I have no meaningful advice to offer but do have a question I've pondered: How viable might a folding bike be for something like this?

These are essentially small bikes intended for full-size adults. Can the fit be adjusted for an 8-year old and then changed back for either when he or she grows or for when you may want to use it for it's intended purpose?

Doge

Not. If the kid wants to race, equipment matters here.
Development advice:
-They have to learn to lose. That is a good thing. If they can do it, try hard lose and want to do it again, you got something.
-They have to work through what they have.
-Thinking they have better stuff - true or not produces better results. AKA - confidence.
-Better stuff provides better results. But keep an eye on what they are riding vs the others. The un-written rules, esp starting at juniors are very important.