Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

“...Frame snaps in half...”

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

“...Frame snaps in half...”

Old 07-14-19, 08:24 PM
  #51  
noglider 
aka Tom Reingold
 
noglider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: West Village, New York City
Posts: 37,563

Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1973 Raleigh Twenty, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem

Mentioned: 440 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5675 Post(s)
Liked 245 Times in 172 Posts
Good story, @Steve Whitlach. I'm not looking for a carbon frame, but I know one of these days, a deal too good to refuse will come up, and I will grab it. And I will enjoy it.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author

Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
noglider is offline  
Likes For noglider:
Old 07-14-19, 10:00 PM
  #52  
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 18,557
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 70 Times in 60 Posts
okay, we don't need to see the pic of the guy impaled with the piece of the track, please don't post it any more.
unterhausen is offline  
Likes For unterhausen:
Old 07-14-19, 11:35 PM
  #53  
RiddleOfSteel
Lugged, Dura-Ace Glory
 
RiddleOfSteel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 2,661

Bikes: '87 Schwinn Prologue - '74 Schwinn Paramount P15 - '8X Davidson Impulse - '88 Land Shark Road Shark - '85 Specialized Allez SE - '81 Univega Gran Premio - '92? Bushnell Track Bike

Mentioned: 162 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 841 Post(s)
Liked 72 Times in 58 Posts
Originally Posted by Steve Whitlatch View Post

This is my first year on a Carbon bike. It does not need to cost an arm and a leg to have a good one. I picked up a barely used Cannondale Supersix Evo High Mod frameset for $450. I had most everything to build it up in my parts bin. I check it over before each ride. I tell myself that in today`s environment, if Carbon bikes were failing catastrophically, the manufacturers would be out of business from all of the law suits. I see way more Carbon fiber being rode hard than I do vintage steel. Mostly old guys like me riding vintage, only going slow.

I was talked into buying and building the frame by a few different people that said "don`t knock it until you try it". Well I am not knocking it anymore. Do I need it? No! I really only need a Huffy if I went by need. The bike is fun to ride. Smoother than any steel I have owned and handles better too. It really feels like a SUPER BIKE! I really wanted to hate it but I can`t.
I am glad you're enjoying carbon. I do as well! My Ridley Damocles (such a great name) is also incredibly smooth--carbon's ability to absorb vibrations is one of its strong suits as we know--yet playful and responsive. The Damocles does nothing wrong, yet since it is not steel or high-performance aluminum (a la Trek Emonda ALR), it lacks that springy-ness inherent to metal. I want to try newer than 2010 carbon (and such not solely built for the pounding Classics cobble rides as the Damocles is) to see how it fares, though hard to justify in a way when a Land Shark absorbs bumps at near-carbon levels while also feeling springy in the climbs and accelerations out of saddle. The Damocles feels truly bomb-proof and dead stable in all scenarios. And with a frameset 200-300g more than the fly-weight carbon stuff, that certainly makes sense.
RiddleOfSteel is offline  
Old 07-15-19, 06:49 AM
  #54  
shoota 
Senior Member
 
shoota's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: not sure
Posts: 6,468
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1058 Post(s)
Liked 45 Times in 39 Posts
The video from the TdF car shows pretty clearly that the Ineos car ran over the bike and split it in half. The bike was 100% intact before the team car rolls over it. So take that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhC081Llaao&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR0__KykLiK2nC4pKj7aVK4yDM3Qt9RRDCS0KhUHZ6gRkOKfJd8O40 KaHTA
__________________
2014 Cannondale SuperSix EVO 2
2015 Cannondale SuperX Hi-Mod

Last edited by shoota; 07-15-19 at 02:19 PM.
shoota is offline  
Likes For shoota:
Old 07-15-19, 06:51 AM
  #55  
crank_addict
Senior Member
 
crank_addict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 6,582
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1123 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 86 Times in 53 Posts
I don't know the facts of the OP but regardless, wouldn't stop me from riding a pick of pro caliber road bikes.

Indeed those road frames are ridden by brute riders but the forces and impacts that very light carbon ATB bike frames can take are impressive.

In 1990, I was already beating up an off-road Kestrel CS-X monocoque 26 inch hardtail including carbon flat bar by Aerosport. I assure you, was doing dumb and bold things with that bike. Never, ever had a frame issue.

Today, I have lots of confidence in a modern 29er hardtail, a far lighter carbon monocoque frame but in a complete different lay up. Admit I've bashed and bruised twice on it, the frame though- unscathed.

crank_addict is offline  
Old 07-15-19, 07:13 AM
  #56  
eja_ bottecchia
Senior Member
 
eja_ bottecchia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 5,498
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 838 Post(s)
Liked 192 Times in 139 Posts
Originally Posted by shoota View Post
The video from the Ineos team car shows pretty clearly that it ran over the bike and split it in half. It's 100% in tact before the team car rolls over. So take that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhC0...OKfJd8O40KaHTA
You can hear the frame snap as the car runs over it.
eja_ bottecchia is offline  
Old 07-15-19, 08:07 AM
  #57  
conspiratemus1
Used to be Conspiratemus
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Hamilton ON Canada
Posts: 1,070
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 125 Post(s)
Liked 65 Times in 43 Posts
!:!

Originally Posted by shoota View Post
The video from the Ineos team car shows pretty clearly that it ran over the bike and split it in half. It's 100% in tact before the team car rolls over. So take that.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhC0...OKfJd8O40KaHTA

Thanks for that. The half-second of the video that shows the bike on the ground, intact, post-crash, is the most important contribution to this whole thread. Throws all the pseudo-engineering mumbo-jumbo out the window. (I'm not saying that statements about the properties of carbon-fibre-matrix structures are not correct. I'm just saying that they don't explain the failure of this structure.)

If most of us had seen a photo of any old bike snapped in two, like the photo at the top of the thread, we would have asked, "What happened to that bike? A car run over it?" And sure enough, just as common sense would tell us, the answer was, "Yup!" But for some reason, the default "explanation" when it's a CF bike is, "It must have as-ploded JRA!"

A couple of decades ago, there was an urban legend going around that people could spontaneously combust into ashes. Earnest investigative TV news shows (I think there is an oxymoron in there somewhere) covered the phenomenon with some persistence, showing as "evidence" some obviously faked and staged photos. (This was before PhotoShop.) Oh, and eye-witness accounts, like the ones describing alien abductions. I remember one photo of a small pile of ashes over a burned hole in a hardwood floor, straddling which was an aluminum-framed walker. The elderly victim, using his walker, was said to have gone up in smoke, "just like that." There was no soot (or charred bits of the dear departed) on the walker tubes and the rubber feet, despite standing in contact with the burned floor, were intact. Weirdly, the obvious absurdity of the photos seemed to buttress, rather than debunk, the spontaneous combustion theory. I guess if you have a preposterous lie to spread, the best agent is preposterous evidence. Aside from the understandable motives like insurance fraud or covering up a homicide, it was never clear what drove this whole meme (as I think we would call it today, but there was no Internet then). People just like to believe goofy, bizarre things that seem to prove that "Science can't explain everything, you know..." And feelings trump words which trump numbers. (Please, mods, note the lower-case "t", OK?)

We (and I include myself here, which is why I find @shoota's post so bracing) are too slow to include, "Well, s/he (or it, in the case of a photo) could be lying, you know," as one of the possible explanations for something that doesn't quite make sense but would so totally validate our world view if it were true. If only.
conspiratemus1 is offline  
Likes For conspiratemus1:
Old 07-15-19, 10:10 AM
  #58  
FBOATSB 
Senior Member
 
FBOATSB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Central Indiana
Posts: 1,573

Bikes: Old Schwinns

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 569 Post(s)
Liked 12 Times in 11 Posts
Originally Posted by noglider View Post
Good story, @Steve Whitlach. I'm not looking for a carbon frame, but I know one of these days, a deal too good to refuse will come up, and I will grab it. And I will enjoy it.
I concur. All I want to hear is the TDF commentators shouting breathlessly "Rider down! Rider down! His frame has assploded!"
Then I will know they are BF members.
FBOATSB is offline  
Old 07-15-19, 10:29 AM
  #59  
Mr. Spadoni 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 276
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 111 Post(s)
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Thanks for clearing that up. The VN article ....
https://www.velonews.com/2019/07/new...o-pinot_496996.

Made no no mention of the car. In total, it says this about the crash.....

“Canadian rider Michael Woods (EF Education First) slid out in a tight right-hand corner, and Thomas crashed over him. Thomas’s Ineos teammate Gianni Moscon (Ineos) crashed as well, snapping his carbon Pinarello bike frame in half.”

It would seem that the article’s author left out a key factor in the frame failure. Application of a load of a few thousand pounds in a manner not anticipated by designers and engineers, even in the extreme scenarios that they are expected to account for, should not reflect on the quality of the frame or the choice of materials. In other words, most things will break when run over by a car.

That said, it is about time to go for a ride so I won’t read any more TDF coverage. I needed that saddle based perspective to try to remain thoughtful.
Mr. Spadoni is offline  
Old 07-15-19, 11:02 AM
  #60  
shoota 
Senior Member
 
shoota's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: not sure
Posts: 6,468
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1058 Post(s)
Liked 45 Times in 39 Posts
Originally Posted by Mr. Spadoni View Post
Thanks for clearing that up. The VN article ....
https://www.velonews.com/2019/07/new...o-pinot_496996.

Made no no mention of the car. In total, it says this about the crash.....

“Canadian rider Michael Woods (EF Education First) slid out in a tight right-hand corner, and Thomas crashed over him. Thomas’s Ineos teammate Gianni Moscon (Ineos) crashed as well, snapping his carbon Pinarello bike frame in half.”

It would seem that the article’s author left out a key factor in the frame failure. Application of a load of a few thousand pounds in a manner not anticipated by designers and engineers, even in the extreme scenarios that they are expected to account for, should not reflect on the quality of the frame or the choice of materials. In other words, most things will break when run over by a car.

That said, it is about time to go for a ride so I won’t read any more TDF coverage. I needed that saddle based perspective to try to remain thoughtful.
Yeah, unfortunate reporting. You can see in the pic they posted in the article that both bikes were whole. I'm sure it was just a mistake. Enjoy your ride, today's stage was incredible!
__________________
2014 Cannondale SuperSix EVO 2
2015 Cannondale SuperX Hi-Mod
shoota is offline  
Old 07-15-19, 11:38 AM
  #61  
steelbikeguy
Senior Member
 
steelbikeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Peoria, IL
Posts: 1,696
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 546 Post(s)
Liked 20 Times in 17 Posts
Originally Posted by crank_addict View Post
I don't know the facts of the OP but regardless, wouldn't stop me from riding a pick of pro caliber road bikes.

......
but there are rumors that you enjoy taunting the Grim Reaper and ride a Teledyne titanium frame with the original fork!

of course, you're not a heavy person and probably not putting a ton of miles on that potentially delicate fork, so the risks are not so great.

Similarly(?), modern CF frames are engineered better than the early ones and if you are reasonable, the risks are quite small. I've put over 20k miles on a CF recumbent and it has survived as well as my steel frame bikes. This is just anecdotal evidence, as is most of what has been mentioned in this thread, so it mostly just means that the lethality of CF frames is below 100%.

There is a fellow on youtube who started as life working with CF in the aviation industry and is now using those skills looking for potential damage in CF bike frames and doing some repairs, if I recall correctly. He does a bit of destructive analysis now and then, by cutting damaged frames in half and looking at the quality of the construction. Very interesting and informative!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCY9...4lLOHpb_zbIedQ

Steve in Peoria
steelbikeguy is offline  
Old 07-15-19, 08:44 PM
  #62  
old's'cool 
curmudgineer
 
old's'cool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Chicago SW burbs
Posts: 4,246

Bikes: 2 many 2 fit here

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 201 Post(s)
Liked 8 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by Steve Whitlatch View Post
... I see way more Carbon fiber being rode hard than I do vintage steel. Mostly old guys like me riding vintage, only going slow...
And your hypothesis for why they're "going slow" is?
__________________
Geoff
"There is no Fail without Try" - Yoda Simpson
old's'cool is offline  
Old 07-16-19, 05:51 AM
  #63  
horatio 
Hump, what hump?
 
horatio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: SC midlands
Posts: 1,638

Bikes: See signature

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 247 Post(s)
Liked 58 Times in 45 Posts
Gonna ride dangerously today... on my carbon Cannondale!
__________________
2010 AB T1X ** 2010 Cannondale SIX-5 ** 1993 Cannondale RS900 ** 1989 Bianchi Brava ** 1988 Nishiki Olympic ** 1987 Centurion Ironman Expert(2) ** 1985 DeRosa Professional SLX ** 1982 Basso Gap ** 198? Ciocc Designer '84 ** 198? Ciocc Competition SL ** 19?? Roberts Audax ** 198? Brian Rourke ** 1982 Mercian Olympic ** 1970 Raleigh Professional MK I ** 1952 Raleigh Sports
horatio is offline  
Old 07-16-19, 07:15 AM
  #64  
shoota 
Senior Member
 
shoota's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: not sure
Posts: 6,468
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1058 Post(s)
Liked 45 Times in 39 Posts
Originally Posted by horatio View Post
Gonna ride dangerously today... on my carbon Cannondale!
You're a wildman!
__________________
2014 Cannondale SuperSix EVO 2
2015 Cannondale SuperX Hi-Mod
shoota is offline  
Old 07-16-19, 08:15 AM
  #65  
Steve Whitlatch 
Senior Member
 
Steve Whitlatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 3,652
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 526 Post(s)
Liked 12 Times in 8 Posts
Originally Posted by old's'cool View Post
And your hypothesis for why they're "going slow" is?
Probably because they are not interested in going fast? I ride my steel bikes hard too. I like going fast. My fast is not as fast as other peoples fast. My point is more that the Carbon Bikes are out in mass, being pushed hard, and not killing the riders on a daily basis. If they were really dangerous, I think I would have witnessed a catastrophy by now?
Steve Whitlatch is offline  
Old 07-16-19, 08:47 AM
  #66  
since6 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Lacey, WA
Posts: 1,486

Bikes: Stevenson Custom, Stevenson Custom Tandem, Nishiki Professional

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 298 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 58 Times in 37 Posts


Oh, for those who would like to try the wicked world of carbon fiber, this $4,000.00 in 2012 bike is currently up for auction at $14.00 with no bids on Goodwill, Dura Ace and wicked cool rear brake placement.

It's kind of crazy what people give away.
since6 is offline  
Old 07-16-19, 10:15 AM
  #67  
Marcus_Ti 
Frozen Solid.
 
Marcus_Ti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 4,853

Bikes: Roadie: Seven Axiom Race Ti w/Chorus 11s. CX/Adventure: Carver Gravel Grinder w/ Di2

Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2022 Post(s)
Liked 97 Times in 69 Posts
Originally Posted by since6 View Post


Oh, for those who would like to try the wicked world of carbon fiber, this $4,000.00 in 2012 bike is currently up for auction at $14.00 with no bids on Goodwill, Dura Ace and wicked cool rear brake placement.

It's kind of crazy what people give away.
"Wicked cool brake placement" in this case meaning it will get clogged with road grime, and will have all lubricant/grease washed out of bearings/bushings in one wet ride.
Marcus_Ti is offline  
Old 07-16-19, 04:28 PM
  #68  
old's'cool 
curmudgineer
 
old's'cool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Chicago SW burbs
Posts: 4,246

Bikes: 2 many 2 fit here

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 201 Post(s)
Liked 8 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by Steve Whitlatch View Post
Probably because they are not interested in going fast?
Yeah, I'll buy that!
__________________
Geoff
"There is no Fail without Try" - Yoda Simpson
old's'cool is offline  
Old 07-17-19, 09:58 AM
  #69  
tony c
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
so cool
tony c is offline  
Old 07-17-19, 10:25 AM
  #70  
Bandera 
~>~
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: TX Hill Country
Posts: 5,936
Mentioned: 87 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1109 Post(s)
Liked 144 Times in 93 Posts
Yet another C&V gloating Schadenfreude post regarding modern hardware that is, as usual, simply Wrong.
Pretending that the current generation of machines in service are somehow failure prone, fragile and unsuited to the use for which they are designed is sour grapes and silly at best.
Enjoy your now obsolete bikes for what they were/are. It's not 1969 anymore, fortunately.

-Bandera
__________________
'74 Raleigh Internat'l. '77 Trek TX900 FG. '90 Vitus 979. '10 Merckx EMX3. '13 Soma Stanyan
Bandera is offline  
Old 07-17-19, 12:48 PM
  #71  
squirtdad
Senior Member
 
squirtdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Jose (Willow Glen) Ca
Posts: 6,351

Bikes: 85 team Miyata (modern 5800 105) , '84 Team Miyata,(dura ace old school) '82 nishiski,

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 892 Post(s)
Liked 94 Times in 76 Posts
just for fun the Ny times take on this

FWIW.... I like steel and can't see carbon in my future I don't hate carbon, but it is a fact that when it fails it fails fast. Biggest issue is people not understanding the design limits of a super light racing frame (which are considered a consumable item by racing teams vs a possible life time frame for most users. I have no doubt that a carbon frame engineered to be a fast daily rider can last a good amount of time, with proper care.

and threadless stems are for the most part fugly

get off my lawn


https://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/27/s...JAuLrZ8-Fwl994
__________________
Looking for more time to ride what I have
squirtdad is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
bhdavis1978
Bicycle Mechanics
30
12-03-17 09:05 PM
SteelFrameMane
Singlespeed & Fixed Gear
19
02-02-17 03:29 AM
goatalope
Bicycle Mechanics
26
09-22-12 01:21 AM
BusterMcFly
Bicycle Mechanics
24
10-10-11 02:26 PM
DOS
Bicycle Mechanics
50
10-30-10 10:18 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.