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My road to Haleakala

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My road to Haleakala

Old 08-27-19, 07:53 PM
  #26  
zacster
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I've got the Assioma Duo setup with a Wahoo Bolt. It'll set you back a grand. But I was riding today in the park and mostly focused on power and it was nice to have. I didn't have this while training for or climbing Haleakala, I wish I did.

As for your training regimen, 200 watts is a lot to hold for a long period of time. Do an FTP test before you embark on this, and maybe see a cardiologist too. Then measure your improvement in FTP (Functional Threshold Power) as you train, but not too often as the FTP test itself is strenuous. But, now that I say that, you'll need a power meter to do this, and a trainer too.
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Old 08-28-19, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Syscrush View Post
I'm doing a bit of research and finding that despite there being an explosion in the number and type of available power meters, they're all still stupid expensive and require the use of a dumb head unit that I don't want. So, a good power meter setup that I can switch easily between my various bikes would be an all-in cost of about $1500. Meanwhile, it remains free to just get out there and f**in' giv'r. So I think I'll be going with the latter option.
I think you can get a crank-based PM for about $400. It's single sided, but it is almost certainly good enough for us regular folk. It should be able to connect to your phone, so you can record data without a "head unit".

Having said that, why don't you want a cycling computer? They're pretty handy to have.
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Old 08-28-19, 09:32 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Lemond1985 View Post
It's a non-stop 35 mile climb, I really don't see how a power meter would help much, but I could be wrong. I dunno, find a one mile hill and climb it 35 times for practice? I have no idea how someone trains effectively for something like that.

https://pjammcycling.com/climb/7.Haleakala&sa
Probably mostly indoors? The problem with him repeats is that you don't get to recover during the actual climb. But you can put the bike on a trainer and make your legs hate you. Longer hills can help a little more, like Washington Pass every day for a week. That's not going to do much for your 6 hour output, but part of this is just being able to keep up with the energy requirements, continuing to train when exhausted can help with that.
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Old 08-29-19, 11:00 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by OBoile View Post
I think you can get a crank-based PM for about $400. It's single sided, but it is almost certainly good enough for us regular folk. It should be able to connect to your phone, so you can record data without a "head unit".
Thanks for the pointer, I'll look into it. But given that my main training bike has a Schlumpf Drive, I have doubts about working out fitment.


Having said that, why don't you want a cycling computer? They're pretty handy to have.
Because cycling computers are garbage. I'm already taking a much, much more powerful and capable computer with GPS, an accelerometer, Bluetooth, effectively unlimited storage, and internet connectivity with me on every ride. I don't want another device to manage, charge, download data from, and swap between bikes.
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Old 08-29-19, 11:16 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by zacster View Post
I've got the Assioma Duo setup with a Wahoo Bolt. It'll set you back a grand. But I was riding today in the park and mostly focused on power and it was nice to have. I didn't have this while training for or climbing Haleakala, I wish I did.

As for your training regimen, 200 watts is a lot to hold for a long period of time. Do an FTP test before you embark on this, and maybe see a cardiologist too. Then measure your improvement in FTP (Functional Threshold Power) as you train, but not too often as the FTP test itself is strenuous. But, now that I say that, you'll need a power meter to do this, and a trainer too.
Thanks - I really appreciate your insights and experiences on this.

Honestly, I'm inclined towards an analytical and measured approach, but I don't want to turn this pursuit into a job. I think that the key for me is going to be staying strict about cutting weight, getting as much seat time as I can, and focusing that seat time on suffering. That suffering can come from intensity, duration, fatigue, weather, or hunger. This is not a scientifically informed idea, but I believe that suffering is a highly transferable skill - that anything you do that involves pushing past your physical comfort zone makes you better prepared for other physical difficulty.
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Old 08-29-19, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Syscrush View Post
Because cycling computers are garbage. I'm already taking a much, much more powerful and capable computer with GPS, an accelerometer, Bluetooth, effectively unlimited storage, and internet connectivity with me on every ride. I don't want another device to manage, charge, download data from, and swap between bikes.
I assume you mean a cell phone here. While everything you say is true, they ultimately just aren't as good as a dedicated cycling computer for riding. The GPS isn't as accurate, the mount isn't as secure, the navigation generally doesn't integrate easily with things like Strava and RideWithGPS and, most importantly, much shorter battery life.

I was a holdout for quite a while using my phone instead of a dedicated computer. When my mount broke on a busy street and my phone fell and cracked (which made it no longer waterproof) I caved and got a computer. Now, I would never go back, particularly as any event lasting more than a few hours would likely outlast my phone's battery.
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Old 08-29-19, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by OBoile View Post
(smart phone) navigation generally doesn't integrate easily with Ö RideWithGPS
I'm going to disagree about using the iPhone RWGPS app for navigation. It works great for me.

Even though I have a Garmin Edge 830 that does navigation, I find the RWGPS app on the iPhone more accurate and more convenient.

I simply locate the route on the app, click "navigate", and drop the phone into my jersey pocket. When I get close to a turn, a voice on the phone tells me what to do. The phone never leaves my pocket.

When I turn off Bluetooth and WiFi, and turn down the screen brightness, my iPhone battery lasts for several hours while navigating.
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Old 08-30-19, 12:22 AM
  #33  
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I know this is unusual, I'm finding a good GPS watch to be the best of all worlds. It'll vibrate on my wrist and tell me to go left, talk to my power meter and Di2, all of that good stuff, but I use it hiking and skiing too.
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Old 08-30-19, 07:13 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
I'm going to disagree about using the iPhone RWGPS app for navigation. It works great for me.

Even though I have a Garmin Edge 830 that does navigation, I find the RWGPS app on the iPhone more accurate and more convenient.
Re-reading what I said there, I misspoke somewhat. What I meant to say was that cycling computer apps that display your power, cadence etc often don't integrate well with outside products (like Strava, powermeters etc.), or at least, the process for setting them up isn't very user friendly.
Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
I simply locate the route on the app, click "navigate", and drop the phone into my jersey pocket. When I get close to a turn, a voice on the phone tells me what to do. The phone never leaves my pocket.

When I turn off Bluetooth and WiFi, and turn down the screen brightness, my iPhone battery lasts for several hours while navigating.
But if it is in your pocket and the screen is turned down, you can't see any of your data. The OP doesn't have a computer like you do.

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Old 09-01-19, 06:28 AM
  #35  
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I used a cell phone for a few rides for navigation and tracking and every time I did that it died before the end of the ride. I then tried carrying a charging battery, but then it was in my pocket and doing me no good. Then I bought my Wahoo Bolt, and no more problems. It just works, requires no fussing, is always there and the battery lasts for many rides, and will last on the ride up Haleakala. My phone was at 2% when I turned around on my attempt, so I turned it off. Just assume that your phone won't last on that climb. The cell service is spotty, and searching for a signal takes power. GPS takes power.
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Old 09-02-19, 05:39 AM
  #36  
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Quick update

I'm a week in to my strict weight loss regimen now. I gave up booze 2 weeks ago, and have been doing IF for weight loss. I'm not one of these "IF makes you stronger, smarter, and cures cancer" types, but I do find that I like the simplicity of it. No counting, no value judgements through the day (if I skip this, I can have that...), and it's easy to track (and gamify) via a variety of apps, which helps me with motivation.

I was stressed at my first weigh-in to see that I had gotten to over 250, but a week in I've cut from 253 to 247. I know that almost all of that is water weight from greatly reducing salty foods, plus GI tract contents from giving up overeating - but I think that those numbers are consistent with my goal of cutting 2 lbs per week.

It's a hectic time with back to school, I hope to get some more serious fitness/training rides done in Sep. Aug has been just commuting.

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Old 09-07-19, 12:01 PM
  #37  
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OK, after giving the subject of gear a lot of thought, I've decided to sell my 2 weird bikes (IGH road bike that needs new dropouts, and my fixie) and buy a nice comfortable entry-level carbon road bike used or on clearance (thinking about a Cervelo C3), and put 2-sided pedal power meters on it, along with a stupid cycle computer.

Something I didn't really mention before is that I have a bit of scoliosis, and my patellofemoral pain is worse in my left knee - both of these things have resulted in my favoring my left leg quite a bit. Every massage therapist I've seen has noted that they can see and feel the difference in the musculature between my two legs. I don't care about getting to a perfectly even power balance, but would like to see if I can work on getting it more even: hence my interest in a dual meter setup.

I'll stick with my 26er for fitness rides this fall, and look for a deal on a proper road bike over the winter after I get my bonus in Dec. Almost all of my training rides in 2020 will be on the road bike, and I'll pay attention to the power numbers to close the loop between training for and planning the climb.
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Old 09-09-19, 07:06 AM
  #38  
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Another week, another 3 lbs cut. Enjoying the easy progress while I can. Scheduled for a DEXA scan tomorrow afternoon, which should serve as a very interesting baseline.

Last edited by Syscrush; 09-09-19 at 07:24 AM.
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Old 09-09-19, 07:27 AM
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I've linked to this 2012 RacerOne Haleakala ride report before. With photos, too! It's one of my favorite BF threads.

A Flatlander Climbs Haleakala

...from the report...
The only vegetation left is small dried up grasses. It's starting to look like the surface of mars, sharp red and black rocks with steep drop offs. I think I'm getting close, but then way up the hillside, I catch the glint of a car window above on one of the switchbacks ahead, by it's size it's miles away. Scale is everything up here, and there's just nothing to reference it with. I think to myself of Marek, on his 3rd Christmas opening presents and saying in his scratchy little voice "oh my, oh my, and OH MY, this is going to be AMAZIK!". And it is. And it continues up.

I pass the 9000' level and at this point realize I AM going to make it. I also realize I have more left to climb than any single hill I ever had ridden before.
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Old 09-09-19, 07:46 AM
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Power meters
I have the 4iiii single sided. It's a tiny pod glued onto the left crank. You mentioned leg imbalances, so a dual sided sounds good for you. And they are a bit more accurate, I suppose.

I don't do formal training with it. My Garmin records the power, and has a bunch of power data choices. I use the 3-second and 30-second power averages. I'm looking at power numbers way more often than road speed or heart rate.

I find power displays helpful for going just a little harder, to bump the number up past my usual pace. Good motivation.

Pacing

It's fantastic for pacing. I've quite easily matched my best efforts on 350 foot climbs, just by staying at a power level I can maintain for the whole climb. I used to watch my heart rate for pacing, and that's pretty effective, but it's slower to react to changes in effort.

Golden Cheetah
This is free (open source) software with a huge set of training data. It's a bit intimidating at first.

But it's actually easy to get started. Just load some GPS recordings, and use the default data screens and graphs. Then there's a setup icon for each display, you can modify it later.

I use these displays the most:
CP graph of Critical Power. This shows the selected ride with my best power over all the time periods, from a few seconds to the length of the ride. And it compares this ride to my best efforts at all these time periods. It's just interesting to see, and good for finding pacing efforts over different time periods.

Power-time scatter.
Power on the Y-axis, time on the x-axis. Each 3 second average is a dot. It really surprised me how much power varies from second-to-second. Even trying very carefully to keep an exact power number, there's still variation.

Map. The hard efforts show on the map of the ride. Oh--there's where that fast section is located.

Intervals on the left margin. It makes some stock selections by climbs and by time. It's easy to add a few of my best efforts over a selected time or elevation interval, too.

Trends over time

I check the stress chart to see how I'm trending. I show 2 years. It's long and short term stress, both aerobic and anaerobic. For instance, early in spring, I felt very sluggish. But the trends weren't much different from the previous year--good.

I can see big jumps in "stress" (which is essentially training load) during the summer from my long rides. It would be good for tapering before the big event, too.
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Old 09-09-19, 04:24 PM
  #41  
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Rouvy has a live video simulation of the climb of Haleakala. This is a really good way to see the ride in advance, but you'll need a trainer to try it. Rouvy just released a Mac version that will be free during their beta so I'm going to give it another try, when I used it for Haleakala last year it was on my phone that was being cast to my big screen, but the phone app was difficult to use that way.
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Old 09-16-19, 11:19 AM
  #42  
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Thanks all for the pointers on relevant resources, I really appreciate it.

I won't be getting an indoor trainer for 2 reasons: first, there's no place to fit one in my house. Second, I think it's better for me at this point to brave the weather and suffer.

I spent most of the last week sick at home with my sick kids. No real chance for training, and not much discipline on diet. I still managed to cut another 1 pound and move to a new notch on my belt. My wife says she's starting to see the difference. 68 weeks and 60-something pounds to go.

I took the fixie and IGH-converted vintage road bike out to my favorite mechanic's place last week so that he could spiff up the fixie for sale, and pull the drivetrain parts I want to keep from the road bike. That sucked. Letting go of those bikes is gonna be really hard. I have had great times on both and love both of them. But it's time to let someone else enjoy them.

I've been researching what is the most appropriate comfort road bike for me to pick up, but I've realized from doing research that I don't care about the best value for dollar or even the best outright comfort: my heart is set on a Cervelo C3, and that's what I'm planning to get. I'll pick one up with a 105 groupset used or on clearance, and if I can climb that mountain I'll reward myself with a nice Campy setup and some sexier wheels.
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Old 09-16-19, 12:15 PM
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Looks like you're staying mindful of the plan, that's great!

Any long term training plan will have its deviations, no plan has a steady "up and to the right" pattern.

Hard to go wrong with Cervelo -- assuming it fits. If it makes you want to ride more, that's the best bike for you.
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Old 09-16-19, 03:17 PM
  #44  
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I did this in 2016 at age 60. I am 5-8 and 160. I rented a Roubaix from West Maui Cycles; it had 50/34 and 11-32 and was like new. My biggest climbing training ride was 9 times a 3-mile hill repeat with steady 6 percent grade. By December of that year I had ridden over 6000 miles.

The ride was OK until the park entrance. After that, the accumulated fatigue, the elevation, the wind and the sun were very tough. I walked the last steep 100 yards or so.

I would recommend NOT riding back down. I was way too fatigued to make the hundreds of decisions required of a fast 35 mile descent. I rode down with my wife in the car and was glad I did.

Donít let the modest grade fool you. This is a tough climb.
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Old 09-17-19, 09:19 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by mbailey View Post
I did this in 2016 at age 60. I am 5-8 and 160. I rented a Roubaix from West Maui Cycles; it had 50/34 and 11-32 and was like new. My biggest climbing training ride was 9 times a 3-mile hill repeat with steady 6 percent grade. By December of that year I had ridden over 6000 miles.

The ride was OK until the park entrance. After that, the accumulated fatigue, the elevation, the wind and the sun were very tough. I walked the last steep 100 yards or so.

I would recommend NOT riding back down. I was way too fatigued to make the hundreds of decisions required of a fast 35 mile descent. I rode down with my wife in the car and was glad I did.

Donít let the modest grade fool you. This is a tough climb.
This is really helpful, thanks. My plan does not include the descent for the reason you give.

I won't be able to get to 6000 training miles in the year leading up to the ride, nor will I be getting my bodyweight down to 160. Based on your experience, maybe I should plan to set up a bike with a serious granny gear and bring it with me. We'll see what my power-to-weight numbers look like when I get closer to the big day.
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Old 09-17-19, 09:30 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
Looks like you're staying mindful of the plan, that's great!
It's the overarching unifying principle of my life for the next 16 months. I think of it every time I want a snack or a beer, or consider taking the streetcar to work instead of the bike.

Any long term training plan will have its deviations, no plan has a steady "up and to the right" pattern.
This is key, IMO. There will be good days and bad days, good weeks and bad weeks, good months and bad months. My three training mantras in the past have been:
  1. Do the work, the results will come.
  2. Your body will surprise you.
  3. Loose, light, relaxed, happy.
Hard to go wrong with Cervelo -- assuming it fits. If it makes you want to ride more, that's the best bike for you.
This is my thinking, too. These big physical undertakings (especially where endurance is concerned) inevitably have a big emotional component. A bike I care about is as important as anything else. Or, as I like to say: "Pretty bikes climb better!"
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Old 09-17-19, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Syscrush View Post
...as I like to say: "Pretty bikes climb better!"
Absolutely true. I have a phrase for when a someone shows up on a club ride with a new bike: New Bike Syndrome.

NBS is worth at least an addition 40 watts.
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Old 09-18-19, 06:14 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
Absolutely true. I have a phrase for when a someone shows up on a club ride with a new bike: New Bike Syndrome.

NBS is worth at least an addition 40 watts.
Absolutely not true. Pretty PEOPLE climb better. I'm good for at least another 100 watts behind someone pretty.
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Old 09-18-19, 07:48 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
Hard to go wrong with Cervelo -- assuming it fits.
So, I just made the mistake of watching this Hambini video where he just excoriates the engineering and manufacturing of the post-PON Cervelo bikes:


It's not enough to derail my fanhood yet, but it is a bit of a nagging voice in my mind now.

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Old 09-18-19, 03:25 PM
  #50  
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That sounds really bad. When I was looking at bikes 15 years ago I had my eye on a Cervelo, but then I started reading about problems with the BB separating on the particular model I wanted. I bought something else. I think Cervelo had to replace almost the entire production run of those because the defect was dangerous. It looks like they haven't learned.
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