Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

Are Drop bars just an illusion for most?

Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

Are Drop bars just an illusion for most?

Old 09-19-19, 07:47 PM
  #501  
terrymorse 
climber has-been
 
terrymorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 3,496

Bikes: Scott Addict R1

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 309 Post(s)
Liked 151 Times in 114 Posts
Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
For the vast majority of situations, there is no harm with braking from the hoods.
Given that most riding involves low speed riding on straight roads with smooth surfaces, I agree.

But riding in drops, like braking inside a turn, increase control and safety under certain conditions.
terrymorse is offline  
Old 09-19-19, 07:54 PM
  #502  
Happy Feet
Senior Member
 
Happy Feet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,500
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1371 Post(s)
Liked 241 Times in 147 Posts
Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
Given that most riding involves low speed riding on straight roads with smooth surfaces, I agree.
Well, that only took 20 pages.

Lot's of stuff applies "under certain conditions". Sitting on your top tube and resting your chest on the bars helps acceleration, sometimes.

Gotta go. Have a good night
Happy Feet is offline  
Old 09-20-19, 07:43 AM
  #503  
terrymorse 
climber has-been
 
terrymorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 3,496

Bikes: Scott Addict R1

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 309 Post(s)
Liked 151 Times in 114 Posts
Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
In this video it is pretty easy to see the riders foot comes off the pedal. They appear to become preoccupied for a second and lose concentration to correct the trajectory path to complete the turn at that speed and veer wide to the point of neither being able to slow down or turn enough. Nothing about lost traction.
Written by someone who clearly has never lost rear wheel traction at the start of the turn. The lost rear wheel traction started the sequence that ended in a crash. When a rear wheel skids, it is virtually impossible to regain control in time to initiate a turn.

The sequence:
1. Fast approach to turn.
2. Hard braking.
3. Road irregularity causes rear wheel to skid.
4. Pro cyclist instinctively unclips left foot (because he has skills).
5. Bike tracks straight instead of turning, because rider can't start a turn when the rear wheel is skidding.
__________________
Ride, Rest, Repeat
terrymorse is offline  
Old 09-20-19, 08:29 AM
  #504  
cyccommute 
Mad bike riding scientist
 
cyccommute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 21,535

Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, an orange one and a few titanium ones

Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2660 Post(s)
Liked 175 Times in 131 Posts
Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
If I said "riding without hands is a good way to crash"
Is that saying "you will crash", if you ride without hands?

NO SIR it is not ! So Quit twisting words.

the same applies to handlebars, one way leaves your self open to a crash, it doesn't mean that you will crash.

2 groups of people, those who elect to ride drops on a dropbar, and those who claim "that is not my Drop bar!!!!"
I added not a single word to your quotes. I can't "twist words" if they are your very own words. Your implication is quite clear in each and every one of those quotes.
__________________
Stuart Black
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
cyccommute is offline  
Old 09-21-19, 06:28 AM
  #505  
rubiksoval
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Music City, USA
Posts: 2,981

Bikes: Felt AR

Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1721 Post(s)
Liked 111 Times in 64 Posts
Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
And you are incorrect. There are many very good reasons to brake in a turn, with essentially no downside.
Well, it's always better to brake then crash, so that's certainly a good reason.

But no. In a race, if you brake in a turn, besides the handling effect, you also get gapped off coming out of that turn in a big way. Then you have to sprint all-out to regain the lost wheel. At 30+ mph, doing this repeatedly (especially in a crit or a curvy road race) can have a big impact on your ability to not get dropped.

That's a lot of downside.
rubiksoval is offline  
Old 09-22-19, 09:01 PM
  #506  
Caliper
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Michigan
Posts: 864

Bikes: Many

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 308 Post(s)
Liked 15 Times in 12 Posts
Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
we should ask them then.

Who here on this site would rather walk than use a flatbar?

Anyone? Ferris? hello?

p.s. how long do we wait for an answer?
Walking would certainly hurt less. I can do a flat bar if it's got about 15* of sweep or so? Less than that and my wrists hurt and hands start tingling within 5 miles or so.
Caliper is offline  
Old 09-22-19, 09:57 PM
  #507  
AlmostTrick
Tortoise Wins by a Hare!
 
AlmostTrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Looney Tunes, IL
Posts: 6,559

Bikes: Wabi Special FG, Raleigh Roper, Nashbar AL-1, Miyata One Hundred, '68 Schwinn Orange Krate, and More!!

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1127 Post(s)
Liked 158 Times in 99 Posts
It just goes to show how everyone is different. No style of bars have ever hurt my wrists, no matter how far I ride. But many times my hands hurt, at least a little. Usually, any position on a drop bar is the worst. No pile of posts from drop bar evangelicals can change that fact.

But I do have one drop bar bike set up that seems to fit ok. Not better than my favorite flat bar bikes, but tolerable. I guess the geometry and set-up is just right.

Sometimes, when taking a curve I find I'm going too fast and wide so I use my brakes. Doing so has never caused me to crash, but I'm certain it's prevented plenty of them. The "you shouldn't brake on a curve" rule is pure silliness.
AlmostTrick is offline  
Old 09-25-19, 08:41 AM
  #508  
subgrade
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Rīga, Latvia
Posts: 341

Bikes: Focus Crater Lake

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 129 Post(s)
Liked 38 Times in 30 Posts
Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
Written by someone who clearly has never lost rear wheel traction at the start of the turn. The lost rear wheel traction started the sequence that ended in a crash. When a rear wheel skids, it is virtually impossible to regain control in time to initiate a turn.

The sequence:
1. Fast approach to turn.
2. Hard braking.
3. Road irregularity causes rear wheel to skid.
4. Pro cyclist instinctively unclips left foot (because he has skills).
5. Bike tracks straight instead of turning, because rider can't start a turn when the rear wheel is skidding.
That is not what happened there.

The actual sequence:
1. Fast approach to turn.
2. Hard braking.
3. Rear wheel loses traction.
4. Cyclist countersteers to correct the slide.
5. Countersteering causes the rear wheel regain traction.
6. The jolt of sudden regaining of traction decreases the lean of the rider (flips him up), thus diminishing his counterweight to centrifugal forces.
7. With less force to counter it, the centrifugal force straightens the turning arc, leading the rider into and over the curb.

To put it short, it was not the loss of traction that straightened his track, but the sudden regaining of traction.

When cornering, losing traction in the rear = instant oversteer; losing traction in the front = instant understeer. Overcorrection of either of the two leads to the opposite effect.
subgrade is offline  
Likes For subgrade:
Old 09-25-19, 09:07 AM
  #509  
BurleyCat
Qfactor
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Nehalem, OR
Posts: 16

Bikes: Santa Cruz, Bridgestone, Raleigh, Rudge, Specialized, Burley, Schwinn

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
For years one had to search to find a mountain bike with flat bars, or aftermarket bars, with a sweep greater than 5 or 6 degrees. Looking at the sweep on off road motorcycles, beginning decades before mountain bikes appeared and right up to the present, handle bars with less than 5 or 6 degrees of sweep are rare indeed. The wrist position on straight, flat, bars looks and feels unnatural. I prefer something over 11 degrees.
BurleyCat is offline  
Old 09-25-19, 07:21 PM
  #510  
Metieval
Senior Member
 
Metieval's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,168

Bikes: Road bike, Hybrid, Gravel, Drop bar SS, hard tail MTB

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 839 Post(s)
Liked 70 Times in 57 Posts
I blame all of you for this!!!!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...for-long-rides
__________________
Dawes SST AL, Cannondale Synapse Alloy 105, Giant Talon 29er, Trek Crossrip Elite,

Last edited by Metieval; 09-25-19 at 07:29 PM.
Metieval is offline  
Old 09-25-19, 10:02 PM
  #511  
one4smoke
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Nashville, TN.
Posts: 1,662

Bikes: 2016 Specialized Roubaix SL4 - 2015 Giant Roam 2 Disc

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 462 Post(s)
Liked 58 Times in 45 Posts
Originally Posted by pvillemasher View Post
Potholes


one4smoke is offline  
Old 09-27-19, 04:29 PM
  #512  
steelrider58
Junior Member
 
steelrider58's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 22

Bikes: 90's Specialized Crossroads Rebuild (for this week, anyway)

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 5 Posts
I've finally come to the conclusion that drop bars are not for me. I basically NEVER put my hands on the lower drops. My current setup is a combination of a cruiser bar with bar ends installed (inside the brake levers, pointing forward like bull horns). This is very similar to the $60 VO Crazy bar. To me, this is comfortable and I will likely never go back to drop bars.
steelrider58 is offline  
Likes For steelrider58:
Old 09-27-19, 06:18 PM
  #513  
Gresp15C
Senior Member
 
Gresp15C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,762
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 685 Post(s)
Liked 84 Times in 64 Posts
Originally Posted by BurleyCat View Post
For years one had to search to find a mountain bike with flat bars, or aftermarket bars, with a sweep greater than 5 or 6 degrees. Looking at the sweep on off road motorcycles, beginning decades before mountain bikes appeared and right up to the present, handle bars with less than 5 or 6 degrees of sweep are rare indeed. The wrist position on straight, flat, bars looks and feels unnatural. I prefer something over 11 degrees.
Check out FSA Metropolis. I'm happy with mine. I don't know if they are "mountain bike" bars per se, but I'm happy with mine. For real mountain biking, there might be a downside to having too much sweep -- the bucking of the bike can pull the grips out of your hands. I've had that happen on old cruisers that I took out on MTB trails.

Last edited by Gresp15C; 09-27-19 at 06:24 PM.
Gresp15C is offline  
Old 09-30-19, 09:03 AM
  #514  
tagaproject6
Senior Member
 
tagaproject6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 8,412

Bikes: Wilier Izoard XP (Record);Cinelli Xperience (Force);Specialized Allez (Rival);Bianchi Via Nirone 7 (Centaur); Colnago AC-R Disc;Colnago V1r Limited Edition;De Rosa King 3 Limited(Force 22);DeRosa Merak(Red):Pinarello Dogma 65.1 Hydro(Di2)

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 503 Post(s)
Liked 156 Times in 88 Posts
And what about the Illusion of Aero Bike Frames?
tagaproject6 is offline  
Old 10-02-19, 12:39 PM
  #515  
Commutess
Single speeder
 
Commutess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 7

Bikes: I have six.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
I blame all of you for this!!!!
Seems like when your in the outer bars, you would be disturbingly far away from the brakes.
Commutess is offline  
Likes For Commutess:
Old 10-03-19, 01:15 AM
  #516  
bwilli88 
Senior Member
 
bwilli88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Kampong Cham, Cambodia but I have quite a few in Lancaster, PA
Posts: 1,900

Bikes: Bikes in USA; 73 Raleigh Supercourse dingle speed, 74 Raleigh Grand Prix SS, 78 Raleigh Supercourse, 83 Centurion Pro-Tour, 82 Raleigh RRA.

Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 467 Post(s)
Liked 30 Times in 23 Posts
Anyone who is using the concept of trail braking in this thread and does not have a front fork that is a suspension is talking out their nether hole. Your need to be able to have compression to reduce the trail and shorten the length thus making it easier to turn. The only thing that moderate braking during the turn will do is to transfer weight to the front wheel and giving increased traction. So it is not considered trail braking but weight transfer braking.
__________________
My Cambodia bikes; ?? Zunow, 81 Centurion Pro Tour, 85 Gazelle Mens Market bike, ?? Maxwell Allroad, 12 Fuji Stratos.
bwilli88 is offline  
Old 10-03-19, 07:33 AM
  #517  
Spoonrobot 
Senior Member
 
Spoonrobot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,348
Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1100 Post(s)
Liked 89 Times in 64 Posts
As we are discussing bicycles, we do not need to adhere to strict definitions of trail braking for motorcycles that we read on Wikipedia. Trail braking, as an approach to fast & efficient cornering, can be done on a bicycle without a front suspension fork. Namely because the front tire can be taken as a spring but more importantly because the overall concept still applies and can be made to work well.
Spoonrobot is offline  
Likes For Spoonrobot:
Old 10-03-19, 07:45 AM
  #518  
kingston 
Jedi Master
 
kingston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Lake Forest, IL
Posts: 2,836

Bikes: http://stinkston.blogspot.com/p/my-bikes.html

Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1193 Post(s)
Liked 66 Times in 54 Posts
I used to ride a lot of off-road motorcycles when I was younger and was taught to drag the front brake to turn faster in tight woods single track. Years later I heard someone call it trail braking and assumed they were referring to the kind of braking one does on a trail. Learn something new every day.
kingston is offline  
Old 10-06-19, 07:12 PM
  #519  
steelrider58
Junior Member
 
steelrider58's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 22

Bikes: 90's Specialized Crossroads Rebuild (for this week, anyway)

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by steelrider58 View Post
I've finally come to the conclusion that drop bars are not for me. I basically NEVER put my hands on the lower drops. My current setup is a combination of a cruiser bar with bar ends installed (inside the brake levers, pointing forward like bull horns). This is very similar to the $60 VO Crazy bar. To me, this is comfortable and I will likely never go back to drop bars.
This is my current handlebar setup (having moved away from drop bars). The "poor man's VO Crazy Bar".

steelrider58 is offline  
Likes For steelrider58:
Old 10-07-19, 10:59 AM
  #520  
livedarklions
Cyclesomatic
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 4,709

Bikes: Trek FX 3; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Motobecane Fantom CX; Giant OCR A1

Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2396 Post(s)
Liked 764 Times in 474 Posts
Originally Posted by steelrider58 View Post
This is my current handlebar setup (having moved away from drop bars). The "poor man's VO Crazy Bar".

I think I'd hate riding that, but liked for craftiness to get the bars you want.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 10-07-19, 11:50 AM
  #521  
ab_antiquo
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 34
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times in 8 Posts
Originally Posted by steelrider58 View Post
This is my current handlebar setup (having moved away from drop bars). The "poor man's VO Crazy Bar".

That front brake cable though...
ab_antiquo is offline  
Old 10-07-19, 02:29 PM
  #522  
H2Orat
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Palos Verdes, California
Posts: 12

Bikes: 1991 Giant Cadex 980c & Co-op Cycles DRT 2.1

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 3 Posts
My belly is too big (once again ) but once it goes, I've got no problem with the drops on my road bike.
H2Orat is offline  
Old 10-07-19, 06:27 PM
  #523  
thepartsguy
ole skool cyclist
 
thepartsguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Munroe Falls, Ohio
Posts: 11

Bikes: Gitane, Kinesis, and Specialized

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
I was a road cyclist before getting my first mountain bike in 1996. Had been on drops since early 70s. I have less numbness riding hoods or drops on my road bike than I do on straight bars or bar ends on mtb. Had drops on my gravel bike for years too.
thepartsguy is offline  
Old 10-08-19, 02:46 AM
  #524  
Ross520
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 56
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 23 Times in 14 Posts
Originally Posted by steelrider58 View Post
This is my current handlebar setup (having moved away from drop bars). The "poor man's VO Crazy Bar".

Wouldn't it be more comfortable to wrap those?
Ross520 is offline  
Likes For Ross520:
Old 10-08-19, 06:35 AM
  #525  
steelrider58
Junior Member
 
steelrider58's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 22

Bikes: 90's Specialized Crossroads Rebuild (for this week, anyway)

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by Ross520 View Post
Wouldn't it be more comfortable to wrap those?
Actually, I did! This photo shows the setup just before I put some Cinelli tape around the barends and the exposed parts of the handlebar. I can't do tape on the grip areas since I really see a huge comfort improvement using the ergonomic grips.
steelrider58 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.