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Are Drop bars just an illusion for most?

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Are Drop bars just an illusion for most?

Old 09-04-19, 07:47 AM
  #126  
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
on the drops your thumb is curled around the bar with your hand having no where to go but up or down.
Unless, of course, your thumb happens to slip off because it is extended so that you can reach the brake lever. The distance from the drops to the brake lever is longer than the distance a brake lever would be from a flat bar. Smaller hands have more of a problem with this but my average sized hand is extended quite a bit to reach the lever from the drops.

Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
On a flat bar, again the bar in between your thumb / fingers and in your fist. Your hands can't go forward without ripping your thumbs off.
Thumbs can slip off flat bars. And, with a flat bar, the bar isn't dropping away and back from the lever so the outer two (or three) fingers can hang onto the bar.

Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
So here is the Pop quiz: What is your thumb wrapped around on the hood to keep your hand from sliding up and off the hood?
It's wrapped around the hood. My index finger and thumb encircle the hood. It's highly unlikely that my thumb would just "slid[e] up and off the hood".

Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
Edit: someone might be blurring the line between group ride, and club ride. lol
They aren't mutually exclusive.
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Old 09-04-19, 07:50 AM
  #127  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
And, yes, my bars are angled up more than would be fashionable but that all a horizontal drop is...fashionable. There is no advantage to having them flat and, since I and most of the rest of the world ride on the hoods most of the time, it's more comfortable to have the tops more horizontal.
1. I called it correctly

2. if you put your bars on the bike correctly, then you wouldn't have so much issues in the drops.

3. with incorrectly positioned bars, you are compromising control in both positions. the hoods and the drops.

4. drop bar angles is not a fashion statement, but something that works. Like the knob on a baseball bat. Or a wrist lanyard on a Wii remote.
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Old 09-04-19, 07:51 AM
  #128  
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Hello. What's this thread about?
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Old 09-04-19, 07:56 AM
  #129  
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Whenever I get the urge to "go really fast" (fast for me that is....relatively speaking for sure!) I use the Drops. At any speed above 20 mph or so, I can feel the drag difference between drops and when on the hoods.
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Old 09-04-19, 08:01 AM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by Gresp15C View Post
I think the pictures make a good point that's been brought up in multiple BF threads: A bike that's set up to fit the rider, might not look like the bike as it was set up for the promotional brochure, or for the showroom.
This is certainly true and deserves to be mentioned in a thread where someone has continually suggested riders should just accept an illfitting bike until they can improve flexibility and drop weight.
The pics show bikes that are set up to be used in a presumably comfortable way and that should be highlighted. The whole point is for cyclists to get out and ride- and these setups allow that.

The pics also show another point thats made in the thread- people buy bikes that dont fit them and then rig and modify the bikes to fit, instead of just getting bikes that fit better in the first place. That many spacers should clearly show the a different size and/or style would fit better.
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Old 09-04-19, 08:14 AM
  #131  
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
1. I called it correctly
What, you want a cookie?

Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
2. if you put your bars on the bike correctly, then you wouldn't have so much issues in the drops.
I don't have "so much issues in the drops". I just don't find them to be all that useful. Most people don't from what I see while riding. Very few people use the drops while riding. Even if you google "pro cyclist pictures", most of the riders are on the hoods. There are even a few pictures of pro riders on the hoods at speed on what appears to be a down hill.

Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
3. with incorrectly positioned bars, you are compromising control in both positions. the hoods and the drops.
How am I compromising control? Considering that I don't crash on fast downhills on a regular basis (or ever) nor do I slip off the hoods on a regular basis (or ever) nor do I loose control and go all wobbly when I hit a pothole on a regular basis (or ever), I just don't see how my ability to control the bike is compromised.

Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
4. drop bar angles is not a fashion statement, but something that works. Like the knob on a baseball bat. Or a wrist lanyard on a Wii remote.
"Works" for you. There are more than one way to skin a cat.
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Old 09-04-19, 08:18 AM
  #132  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
There are more than one way to skin a cat.
the best way to skin a cat is to hit something at speed while riding the hoods. LOL
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Old 09-04-19, 08:22 AM
  #133  
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
the best way to skin a cat is to hit something at speed while riding the hoods. LOL
Only if you are dumb enough not to be holding on.
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Old 09-04-19, 08:33 AM
  #134  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Unless, of course, your thumb happens to slip off because it is extended so that you can reach the brake lever. The distance from the drops to the brake lever is longer than the distance a brake lever would be from a flat bar. Smaller hands have more of a problem with this but my average sized hand is extended quite a bit to reach the lever from the drops.


Thumbs can slip off flat bars. And, with a flat bar, the bar isn't dropping away and back from the lever so the outer two (or three) fingers can hang onto the bar.


It's wrapped around the hood. My index finger and thumb encircle the hood. It's highly unlikely that my thumb would just "slid[e] up and off the hood".

1) why would your THUMB be reaching for a brake lever? That's what your index finger is for. Thumbs don't do shifting or braking on drop bar controls so keep the thumb around the bar when braking if it's bumpy. Brake levers on drops are about the same distance from the bar as on a flat bar - an index fingers reach. I don't have really big hands, run my SRAM levers adjusted all the way out and can comfortably ride in the drops with the tip of my index finger resting on the brake lever if I'm in a place where I feel I may need the brakes.


2) My other fingers are on the bar or can be when I brake with drops. Again, index finger only for brakes. Plus your hand is in the forward part of the curve, there's no place for it to slip to, your hand is being driven into the bar.


3) I think for most of us, the thumb wraps around the front of the hood. My thumb only reaches fully underneath the hoods if I am out of the saddle.
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Old 09-04-19, 08:49 AM
  #135  
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I think what he means is the reach, from the drops on a modern set up, has the brake lever too far away from the bar so that you need to stretch the hand to reach it. Which is fairly accurate. When I began using my drops more I had to really look at adjustments so that I could reach them reliably. They didn't come that way. Eventually I found flared bars and brake levers with limiters for smaller hands to work even better.

People arguing about proper set up for drops etc... tend to miss a point. Bicycles are very personal machines. If a person spends more time on the hoods they will want that position maximized. In the drops.. ditto. If they are happy great! Trying to suggest they are wrong because they don't do what another might is misguided at best.
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Old 09-04-19, 09:13 AM
  #136  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
I think what he means is the reach, from the drops on a modern set up, has the brake lever too far away from the bar so that you need to stretch the hand to reach it. Which is fairly accurate. When I began using my drops more I had to really look at adjustments so that I could reach them reliably. They didn't come that way. Eventually I found flared bars and brake levers with limiters for smaller hands to work even better.

People arguing about proper set up for drops etc... tend to miss a point. Bicycles are very personal machines. If a person spends more time on the hoods they will want that position maximized. In the drops.. ditto. If they are happy great! Trying to suggest they are wrong because they don't do what another might is misguided at best.
This is generally true of almost all of the "you're doing it wrong" advice on BF--there's crazy assumptions that body parts are standard issue and everyone rides for the same purpose. For some reason, the standards for both of these are what fits the person claiming they know the "right" way.
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Old 09-04-19, 09:13 AM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
If they are happy great! Trying to suggest they are wrong because they don't do what another might is misguided at best.
and you'll apply the same thought process to wearing helmets? etc....

applying the cyccommute theory of 40 years, some people have ridden 40 years without a bicycle helmet without a brain injury. No need for helmets! to think other wise is just "misguided" at best.
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Old 09-04-19, 09:30 AM
  #138  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
No. No they won't. My hands aren't just resting on the hoods. I do have a grip on the hoods. Additionally, if my (or your) hands could come off the hoods when you hit a pot hole, they could come off the drops as well. In both situations, the rider should be assumed to have a fairly firm grasp of the bars...as well as having a firm grasp of the concept of having a firm grasp of the bars.
Incorrect, on multiple points. Having a firm grip on the hoods requires hand re-positioning before braking. Having a firm grip on the drops does not. Drops are always more secure than hoods. You get three fingers and a thumb around the bar with one finger on the brake. With hoods, unless you have very narrower fingers you get two and a half fingers and half a thumb around the shifter body but no fingers on the brake lever. The handhold provided by the drops is also more secure and fits the hand better than the bar/shifter interface.

I'd like to see your bike - are we talking cyclocross style upwards angle or hobo-bum-bike upward angle?
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Old 09-04-19, 09:46 AM
  #139  
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
and you'll apply the same thought process to wearing helmets? etc....

applying the cyccommute theory of 40 years, some people have ridden 40 years without a bicycle helmet without a brain injury. No need for helmets! to think other wise is just "misguided" at best.
No I won't. A helmet is not a drop bar.

Sorry, but no one elected you the bicycle police. Cyclocommute has ridden many years successfully as is well documented in the touring sub forum. You?

Stop trying to win the internet in every thread with your absolutism. It's tedious.

Last edited by Happy Feet; 09-04-19 at 09:49 AM.
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Old 09-04-19, 09:48 AM
  #140  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
My hands aren't just resting on the hoods. I do have a grip on the hoods. Additionally, if my (or your) hands could come off the hoods when you hit a pot hole, they could come off the drops as well.
1. You don't have superhuman strength in your hands. Even if you did, you don't maintain a death grip on the hoods at all times.
2. In the drops, your thumb wraps around the bars, and it takes the force of a rapid deceleration. You may sprain your thumb when taking a big hit, but your hands will not come off the bars.

Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
I have taken a course in bicycling...it called life. I know as much as any mountain biker about braking and I know more than the average road cyclist knows about braking.
Your words have made it clear: you're a confidently self-taught cyclist who has developed a bad cycling habit, and you refuse to heed the advice of experts. See Dunning-Kruger effect.
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Old 09-04-19, 09:52 AM
  #141  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
No I won't. A helmet is not a drop bar.

Sorry, but no one elected you the bicycle police. Cyclocommute has ridden many years successfully as is well documented in the touring sub forum. You?

Stop trying to win the internet in every thread with your absolutism. It's tedious.
it doesn't matter if it is a helmet, a drop bar, a coke, or a pepsi....

to quote you
Trying to suggest they are wrong because they don't do what another might is misguided at best.
even applies to fasting also. but you all love to tell me I am wrong because I don't do it your way.


as far as the drop bar conversation goes. it isn't about my way, their way, your way,

it is about physics, anatomy, etc....
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Old 09-04-19, 10:00 AM
  #142  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
People arguing about proper set up for drops etc... tend to miss a point. Bicycles are very personal machines. If a person spends more time on the hoods they will want that position maximized. In the drops.. ditto. If they are happy great! Trying to suggest they are wrong because they don't do what another might is misguided at best.
I agree in as far as that individual is concerned. When that individual then turns around and says "you don't need XYZ equipment, it isn't useful" while they themselves are using it wrong... Then I will disagree. Drop bars have many benefits when set up in a certain way. They can obviously be set up in many other ways (including completely upside down as Craigslist shows us) but using many of these "alternative" configurations tends to compromise the intended benefits. While an individual is certainly free to set up their bike as they wish and for their circumstances, don't do that and then tell me how bad it is.

Again, this thread would be far more useful to discus drop bar setup so that the drops are NOT an illusion and all positions on a drop bar are useful.
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Old 09-04-19, 10:03 AM
  #143  
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Originally Posted by DynoD500_SR20-d View Post
for most of us riders who want to fit in?
Trying to fit in is an illusion. Be yourself and be comfortable with who you are. You'll have less stress.
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Old 09-04-19, 10:34 AM
  #144  
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Originally Posted by rayooo View Post
Whenever I get the urge to "go really fast" (fast for me that is....relatively speaking for sure!) I use the Drops. At any speed above 20 mph or so, I can feel the drag difference between drops and when on the hoods.
That's the biggest difference for me too. When I need to go hard/fast (like when I'm taking a pull), I use the drops. I go a km/h or two faster for the same power output.
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Old 09-04-19, 11:35 AM
  #145  
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Pardon me for butting in, but if there are only drops and flats, where do these fit? I choose not to use drops, in large part because I like to admire the scenery on my rides and not have a permanent neck cramp. Also the belly fat thing.

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Old 09-04-19, 12:07 PM
  #146  
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When I read about how non secure hoods are I have to wonder if the poster has seen or used modern versions. They are ergonomically designed for hood riding so differently than older generations of brake lever it's day and night. You can have a very secure grip on them and still easily use the brakes.

Looking at older drop bars, with the levers half way down the hooks it's easy to see how those would not feel secure.

In order to make old school levers reachable in the drops you have to position them that way and thus compromise the hood position. Modern design addresses that issue.

As to safety. How many old school drop bar roadies will poo poo aerobars and say you can rest your grip by leaning on the flats with their forearms. Super safe
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Old 09-04-19, 12:11 PM
  #147  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
You can have a very secure grip on them and still easily use the brakes.
Please post a picture of the very secure grip while also using the brakes.
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Old 09-04-19, 12:20 PM
  #148  
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A bicycle is a highly personal machine. It has to fit your body perfectly for your comfort and long term enjoyment. And to achieve such state of affairs requires time and effort. For most of us, there was no "perfect" bike from the get go. Back in the day, we had to make changes and add other items to make our rides more comfortable and enjoyable. Today, there are countless different models and frame sizes/shapes to choose from. That is great because now you can at least find a rather more fitting canvas to work on.

So when people argue about "which setup is the best", i am sorry but it is just babble. "Whatever floats your boat" should be the normal thing to say.
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Old 09-04-19, 12:24 PM
  #149  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Hello. What's this thread about?
OP said that drop bars are merely an illusion, which had me doubting my sanity. I ran downstairs to check my bikes, and they have drop bars as far as I can tell. If I'm hallucinating, at least I'm consistent.
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Old 09-04-19, 12:28 PM
  #150  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
You can have a very secure grip on them and still easily use the brakes.
That hasn't been my experience, at least not for the ease of security and braking that I want when I'm fifteen minutes into a steep twisty mountainous double-track descent.

Looking at older drop bars, with the levers half way down the hooks it's easy to see how those would not feel secure.
I actually find that the narrowness of old-school non-aero brake levers makes it easier to get a secure hold. Very little grip force is required to be locked in.

The pivot position does make effective braking from the hoods difficult, though. From the hoods, you have to push the lever down more than pull it toward you.

In order to make old school levers reachable in the drops you have to position them that way and thus compromise the hood position.
That's actually more a consequence of the drop bar design than the hood design. Mount modern brifters on a Maes-bend bar, and you'll have to set them pretty low to put the levers low as well.

But I also think it's easy to exaggerate the issue. All of my vintage bikes have their non-aero hoods significantly higher than where Merckx would have stuck them, but I can still use them effectively in the hooks.
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