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(Wheel Choice) bikepacking on gravel bikes

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(Wheel Choice) bikepacking on gravel bikes

Old 09-13-19, 01:24 PM
  #26  
Happy Feet
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No need to be rude.

It appears you have this all very well thought out and researched. Begs the question as to why you asked in the first place but no matter. I'm sure you're sure you'll buy a good wheelset.

That aside. The discussion may serve as a good vehicle for others who might be reading along and wondering what points to consider for their own wheel choice. With 25 replies there are 270 views.

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Old 09-13-19, 02:33 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
at this point I might just do the allroads to put a stop to the Reguritation of it can't be done.

Do you guys Happy feet /Marcus/mstateglfr want to make a friendly BF wager?

I'll do a 1200 mile loaded ride on the 20/24 spoke allroads. If I break a spoke I'll take a 3 month leave of silence on BF. If I don't break a spoke, then you 3 take a leave of silence from BF. or at least from the gravel section.

We will put our keyboards up for collateral to back our opinions.
What is your deal? Why are you challenging people who are simply responding tontuenquestions you posed?
If you dont like the responses, that isn't everyone's fault...especially when the responses are similar in nature. Perhaps theybare similar because the answers to your questions are good info.

Really not sure why you included me in your little bet- I never said you are doing anything wrong and I never said or even suggested the Mavic wheels are going to break.
My responses were general in nature for a reason- too many variables to give a difinutive response, yet you seem to have determined it was a definitive response. Odd.


As for your earlier dig at me with regards to speak sing money for compressionless brake housing, I appreciated the advice on the site and took it into account when making a decision. You seem to think that since it was about a $30 component, hesitating to spend money is a bad thing. First, I dont know why anyone wouldnt consider the cost of something when deciding what to buy. Even if price is 8th on the list of importance, it's a consideration because if itnwerent, then why ot spend even more money for the product? Second, my hesitation wasn't just money based- I would have to wait 4 days for the housing if I bought it so if it want a significant improvement over standard coil housing, i wouldnt have to wait.
You have a unique way of interpreting things to fit the argument you seem to want to have.


I dont want to take your bet because i dont think a spoke will break on this limited trip. I haven't said i think itll happen, i haven't suggested i think itll happen, and i would be surprised if it happens.
I simply asked what the upside of a low spoke wheelset is for bikepacking, and i provided a general setup that I would seek out. Doesnt seem aggressive to me, sorry if it seemed aggressive to you.
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Old 09-13-19, 04:17 PM
  #28  
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It isn't my place to tell the owners of Bikeforums.net how to run their business but I will offer that permitting argumentative, lecturing and condescending members and even culling moderators from those who are adept at it is the main reason why I have not become a paid member.

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Its to the point where having a reasonable conversation with anyone is an extreme rarity.


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Old 09-13-19, 06:40 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post

As for your earlier dig at me with regards to speak sing money for compressionless brake housing, I appreciated the advice on the site and took it into account when making a decision. You seem to think that since it was about a $30 component, hesitating to spend money is a bad thing. First, I dont know why anyone wouldnt consider the cost of something when deciding what to buy. Even if price is 8th on the list of importance, it's a consideration because if itnwerent, then why ot spend even more money for the product? Second, my hesitation wasn't just money based- I would have to wait 4 days for the housing if I bought it so if it want a significant improvement over standard coil housing, i wouldnt have to wait.
You have a unique way of interpreting things to fit the argument you seem to want to have.

odd that you never mentioned that "WAIT" in the other topic, you only mentioned MONEY!

It isn't my interpreting things, It is the dishonest way they are presented.

Like you and the other 2, Marcus and happy feet, already know where I stand on 32/36 spoke wheels. I am perfectly fine with 28 you all 3 know this to be true. We had a wheel discussion before and that is when marcus went on Ignore list.

So this thread was NOT about Mavic all road vs ___________ ( cantu or lightbicycle), It was enough to warrant being Related to the Mavic Allroad and how far can the 20/24 spokes be pushed.

YOU brought up MONEY in this thread, not me. I also called you out on honesty over it. You and I and everyone else knows that very few of us ever pay msrp on many items we talk about daily here on BF. You even brought up "what bike?" which is ABSOLUTELY and totally irrelevant!

Look I get it that you and I go round and round. Just ignore my threads? instead of Derailing them to be about MONEY, or what bike, in a wheel discussion.

I get it you ride steel I ride carbon. I'll ride the wheel that I deem best suits my purpose, vs acceptable trade offs due to bang for the buck. Your experience with 20/24 or even 28 spoke wheels and bikepacking is? At this point I don't even know if you have ever even experienced a high end wheelset. If I remember you are taller, and a bigger guy Clydesdale rider >220 lbs? If that is true then you probably have not ridden light weight wheel sets ever. or maybe you have and that is why you don't like them? If people talked about experience with details instead of regurgitating he said/she said stuff to be scripture.

*pause* I just remembered Jay Petervary and his warbird self supported silk road race. What wheel did he use Industry nine? What, is that a 24 spoke wheel?

that Jay Petervary's Warroad on Industry nine wheels is the info I SEEK when I start a thread on is the 20/24 Allroad spoke count going to cause problems.

I guess If I am shopping for a Carbon gravel bike, and higher end wheels, I probably shouldn't go to wal-mart and ask the guy working in the bike isle.
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Old 09-13-19, 06:50 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
...Its to the point where having a reasonable conversation with anyone is an extreme rarity.


-Tim-
It's still possible though

A couple of years ago, after a particularly crazy incident with one (now banned) member, I decided that I would try to add content whenever possible and let the chips fall where they may. That's why I make threads about trip reports, gear reviews and bike builds I'm working on. Some times I get sucked personally into a debate but then I try to pull back and regroup if I can.

In this case, there is no magic "one" answer to the question - just how to think about the problem and what parts go into the risk reward equation. Those components: likelihood of failure, cost of failure, cost of mitigation, reward for risk... are all a sliding scale.

If someone is convinced the risk of failure is zero, as in this case, then there is no need for mitigation and the rewards (weight savings of a few spokes), even if small are a bonus (money being no object as stated). If the risk of failure goes up.. but the cost of that failure is low (as in an easy extrication and minimal loss of tour time), then the rewards may also win out. But if the risk of failure is uncertain, and the cost of failure is high (having to walk a bike many many kilometers to a trailhead or ending a long anticipated tour) then the cost of mitigation (higher spoke count) may become more attractive than the marginal gains from taking that risk (low spoke count).

It's pretty common to do this risk/reward consideration for touring components and bike packing is no different in that regard. The OP may think no one in the touring section has ever heard of bikepacking before but he is about 5 years behind the times. We've been talking about it for a while going back to the enthusiastic advocacy of user Max the Cyclist from my memory. In fact it was his reports that convinced me to buy my first bike packing bags.

This is my current touring bike https://www.norco.com/bike-archives/...e-disc-tiagra/ which, aside from the saddle bag which I prefer over the seat bag I also own, is basically a bike packing rig suitable for gravel. That was taken during an 850km trip. There it has 28c tires but now has 32's and could take 35's or a 650b wheelset if I want (for me money is a consideration). Currently waiting for my dropper post that will fit both this and my fat bike. Tent is in the HB bag, Sleeping bag, mat and clothes in the saddle bag, electronics tools pump and food in the frame bag and wallet/camera/snacks in the gas tank bag.


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Old 09-13-19, 07:11 PM
  #31  
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I asked what bike because I'm interested in what you plan to use and are riding. I know you dislike(d) your trek, so wasnt sure if you are using that or something else. I'm curious what people use for bikepacking. I'm glad I didnt ask what your packing setup is going to be- that might have offended you even more.

Yes, I brought up the cost of your suggested wheels because I was trying to understand the value in those wheels compared to others. This comparison is commonplace for most everyone. I certainly wasnt meaning to focus on the cost and dont think i did since its mentioned only a couple times alongside many other thoughts. But if you feel the focus was on cost, apologies for that.

I dont know what you are talking about as it pertains to honesty. Nothing I have posted has been dishonest. I googled the wheelset, went to magic's website, and commented based on the process i saw. I had no idea they are available for less. Many brands enforce MAP and many brands allow for lower prices- I simply didnt look into the pricing further since i didnt find it very important.
See- that isn't dishonesty. Ease up my man.
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Old 09-13-19, 08:25 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
I asked what bike because I'm interested in what you plan to use and are riding. I know you dislike(d) your trek, so wasnt sure if you are using that or something else. I'm curious what people use for bikepacking. I'm glad I didnt ask what your packing setup is going to be- that might have offended you even more.

Yes, I brought up the cost of your suggested wheels because I was trying to understand the value in those wheels compared to others. This comparison is commonplace for most everyone. I certainly wasnt meaning to focus on the cost and dont think i did since its mentioned only a couple times alongside many other thoughts. But if you feel the focus was on cost, apologies for that.

I dont know what you are talking about as it pertains to honesty. Nothing I have posted has been dishonest. I googled the wheelset, went to magic's website, and commented based on the process i saw. I had no idea they are available for less. Many brands enforce MAP and many brands allow for lower prices- I simply didnt look into the pricing further since i didnt find it very important.
See- that isn't dishonesty. Ease up my man.
I sold the Trek. I absolutely wouldn't want to do multiple long days on it. It was a great grocery getter though. however TO do it over again...I'd pick different.

value is hard to apply. As your value in something is going to vastly differ than my value in something. My value in the Mavic wheels is durability. As in in 3 different mavic wheelsets I have not had any issues outside of trying to mount tubless mtb tires on the Crossroads TIGHT (can't blame the wheel though). I've ridden 2 of them in multiple rain storms. the MTB wheels set, not so much. but it has seen multiple creeks.

However their is value in looks, I happen to love the look of the Zicral spokes.
There is value to me in the threads nipples, with a solid rim bed.
without a load there is even value in low spoke count. less spokes cutting through the air.
there is value in straight pull.

Option 1 Mavic as for Money value $900 ish bucks. 1610 gram It's a bit high..... con 20/24 maybe even with a load I am under there weight limit. I think 264
option 3 lightbicycle in 28 spoke, carbon, solid rim bed, 2 mm asymetrical, straightpull CL DT swiss 240 hubs with brass nipples "Weight: 1445.44g+/-25 total: USD 1016.80" weight limit 275
Cons are delivery time, and solid rim bed means using magnet and string. Uhgg but I don't have to order them solid beds. So mavic gets the win with the Easiest solid rim bed spoke/nipple replacement. well until the Nipple threads corrode to the rim?
option 4 Cantu Rebel $1,600 28 spoke , a 2.6mm asymmetrical (more even spoke tension) and hand built, supposedly the lightbicycle are hand built too, but by whom???? John has no complaints on his wheels. He also has 30 mm width with 22 internal vs 29 with 22IW lightbicycle for hook less snake bite, beefier for very low tubeless psi. That also has value in my opinion. depends on how low a person rides and how often they smack a rim. Weight: 1545



just for laughs I'll throw in a 4th option. DT Swiss ER1600 32 spline $421 (msrp is like just under $800 maybe?) almost 1800 gram, machine built DT swiss 350 hubs 20 mm internal. not an option at all really.

As for the bike, value comes to play again. and I am going against reason. Revolt advanced. the value is in the 0, but I don't like the color. yet the argument is ultegra vs 105. the zero has carbon wheels, but at 1630 gram they are heavier than the mavics. they are straight pull with DT internals. comparing msrp $3,650 vs $2,450 add $1000 wheels and it is $3450 for 105 vs $3650 ultegra. You know what, sometimes it really is about color.

and my 3 week window just turned into a 2 week window. So maybe I'll buy a new MTb instead now, finish out the year with some weekend car camping with a cabin tent/ double stack queen air mattress. and a freaking grill with a cooler. and do the Gravel bike in the spring. because I am kind of curious if Giant won't drop a Revolt Advanced Pro GRX to go with their pro force build.


Feel free to point out the flaws in my choice on setup too. Because it was going to be the Giant toughroad front rack. I was just going to run Quad ortlieb gravel panniers. For simplicity of packing. along with the idea that it might be fun to camp out for a few days and just ride with no panniers leaving them at camp. a little heavier but not much I think a set is 25 liters. so 50 liter total space. bullet proof 100% water proof. no frame pack rubbing legs. catches a bit more wind but whatever. running smaller panniers in the rear leaves more heel space to for shorter chain stays. It also allows me to spread the weight.
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Old 09-13-19, 09:01 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post

If someone is convinced the risk of failure is zero, as in this case, then there is no need for mitigation and the rewards (weight savings of a few spokes), even if small are a bonus (money being no object as stated). If the risk of failure goes up.. but the cost of that failure is low (as in an easy extrication and minimal loss of tour time), then the rewards may also win out. But if the risk of failure is uncertain, and the cost of failure is high (having to walk a bike many many kilometers to a trailhead or ending a long anticipated tour) then the cost of mitigation (higher spoke count) may become more attractive than the marginal gains from taking that risk (low spoke count).

there is a risk in everything. and you never did ask if there was a plan. So before you go on and on about ending a tour, loss of tour time, blah blah..... just know that it is all part of an unplanned adventure. a general idea but nothing is set in stone, and neither are destinations. just 100% freedom to go left or right or straight at intersections and just ride and explore. which was the original intent. and then I calculated distance and was like oh hey Katy trail. sounds like fun. but who knows. I've friends in northern IN, North IL. south IN... I can't say that being anywhere around Mississippi river or Missouri river is very exciting. with Kansas city, Omaha, Des Moines, St Louis, New Orleans all being at the top of my Midwest cities to avoid!

but this is what happens when you JUDGE versus ask questions.

and then the ironic part of your rant about low spoke count (directed at me) was to another guy that just had built a low spoke count light weight wheel with the intention of hitting some serious back country gravel. Probably way more rougher gravel than I would ever hit across Indiana.
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Old 09-13-19, 11:14 PM
  #34  
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You certainly seem to have a personal grudge against me but that's your problem not mine. We can't help if you keep moving the "goal" post because this is all apparently just theoretical musings for you. For the rest of us, most of what we contribute on bike forums is based on what we have actually done and have spent real money on. It sounds now like you intend to do neither. I can't tell any more. Car camping.. buying a bike to prove a point to random strangers.. ?

To refresh memory, this was the question: My question is how much wheel is needed for bikepacking or light touring on gravel? All of my feedback has been on the factors to consider in answering that question. Although you asked the original question, my responses are directed towards the topic in a general sense as you seem to have your mind already made up and this is an open discussion forum where others may be following along with similar questions, considerations or ideas. Feedback seems to suggest it is helpful. Feel free to ignore what I say and do as you wish. I hope you find some happiness in whatever you do.


Try to have a good day.

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Old 09-14-19, 07:15 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post

To refresh memory, this was the question: My question is how much wheel is needed for bikepacking or light touring on gravel?
I got that answer with Jay Petervary

24 spokes on I9.35 was enough. tested and proven. Then again Jay isn't fat. and the silk road isn't exactly Indiana gravel smooth either. IN gravel roads would be glass compared to what he put the 24 spoke wheels through.
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Old 09-14-19, 08:04 AM
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Cool, great. Looking forward to seeing your build and reading your trip report.

Btw. Do you mean this Jay Petervary and this Silk Road race? Because, and I may be wrong, but I just counted his spokes in one of the pictures and its 32H.

https://bikepacking.com/plog/jay-pet...mountain-race/


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Old 09-14-19, 08:45 AM
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then maybe he didn't use the i9.35 there.
Regardless , not all gravel is equal, and not all needs are the same. but how do you know what someones needs are without ASKING? you don't, you didn't, and you didn't care to ask.

here let me help you out where your help is needed.

https://www.bikeforums.net/touring/1...kepacking.html
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Old 09-14-19, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
It isn't my place to tell the owners of Bikeforums.net how to run their business but I will offer that permitting argumentative, lecturing and condescending members and even culling moderators from those who are adept at it is the main reason why I have not become a paid member.

I try not to condemn people or groups but will condemn behavior and ideology. I don't hate any man, nor wish anyone ill - on the contrary, I hope that those who exhibit such behavior recognize the fact and change. The good news is that behavior can change. I'm proof, though I still have a long way to go.

Its to the point where having a reasonable conversation with anyone is an extreme rarity.


-Tim-
The small, volunteer staff of moderators does not condone argumentative, lecturing and condescending posts.

We are not staffed to read every post on Bike Forums, and rely on members to alert us to inappropriate posts via the "Report" button.

We then collectively decide what action to take, if any.
In some cases posts fall into a "grey" area, and we have to make a judgement call between removing/ editing posts, and not interfering in legitimate debate.
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Old 09-14-19, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Metievil
Regardless , not all gravel is equal, and not all needs are the same. but how do you know what someones needs are without ASKING? you don't, you didn't, and you didn't care to ask.
You were the one who asked about spoke count and people tried to reply in good faith, asking for clarification but were shot down, and it turns out you know far more than anyone else about the subject so I have no more questions in that regard. You have it sorted.

You now seem to suggest we should ask about what type of gravel you will ride on but it also seems you have covered every possible angle there as well - and then some. I haven't bothered to ask you questions about that because you've given lots of information and clearly have it all figured out and therefore have kept my comments to the subject in a general sense and not about your specific case. I figured you were going with Jay Petervary and his whatever wheelset on that.


Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
...I'll do a 1200 mile loaded ride on the 20/24 spoke allroads...
Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
...Depends on how much gravel I want to hit across IN/ IL... It might just become a fast ride... 1200 miles max unless I cut it short. so 800 ish on the short side... Midwest ride. so plenty of water/food available. I am leaving it open ended... So I thought why not ride to the Katy trail, but ride to it also...
Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
well maybe I won't end up there... I have about 3 week window. so I'll be spending 3 weeks on the saddle.
Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
...and my 3 week window just turned into a 2 week window. So maybe I'll buy a new MTb instead now, finish out the year with some weekend car camping with a cabin tent/ double stack queen air mattress. and a freaking grill with a cooler. and do the Gravel bike in the spring.
Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
... just know that it is all part of an unplanned adventure. a general idea but nothing is set in stone, and neither are destinations. just 100% freedom to go left or right or straight at intersections and just ride and explore. which was the original intent. and then I calculated distance and was like oh hey Katy trail. sounds like fun. but who knows. I've friends in northern IN, North IL. south IN... I can't say that being anywhere around Mississippi river or Missouri river is very exciting. with Kansas city, Omaha, Des Moines, St Louis, New Orleans all being at the top of my Midwest cities to avoid!
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Old 09-14-19, 08:59 PM
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Just figured I would clarify where the Katy is, in case the OP doesnt realize. It runs between KC and STL, which are 2 of the cities specifically mentioned as wanting to avoid and runs alongside the Missouri River which is also specifically stated as a river to avoid.

You needn't ride thru either of the cities, sure, but the trail(and arterial ones) connect to those cities and you ride along the Missouri River.


Riding the KATY sounds like about the worst trip you could choose, based on your comments. Also, New Orleans isn't in the midwest.



Sounds like holding off until the spring is a good idea since you dont have a bike, dont have new wheels for said bike, lost 1/3 of your expected ride time, don't know where you will ride, and dislike the location you mentioned wanting to ride to.
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Old 09-15-19, 01:36 AM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Just figured I would clarify where the Katy is, in case the OP doesnt realize. It runs between KC and STL, which are 2 of the cities specifically mentioned as wanting to avoid and runs alongside the Missouri River which is also specifically stated as a river to avoid.

You needn't ride thru either of the cities, sure, but the trail(and arterial ones) connect to those cities and you ride along the Missouri River.


Riding the KATY sounds like about the worst trip you could choose, based on your comments. Also, New Orleans isn't in the midwest.



Sounds like holding off until the spring is a good idea since you dont have a bike, dont have new wheels for said bike, lost 1/3 of your expected ride time, don't know where you will ride, and dislike the location (FALSE) you mentioned wanting to ride to.
Machens to Clinton, and I can hit Machens via crossing the Clark bridge (which is a dang cool bridge!) I also happen to know where Ferguson MO is. I also know where Gary IN is. etc.... Obviously my reasons for avoiding certain areas went over your head. At this point I am going to assume that you all are intelligent. Thus the continuous misconstruing of reality, and your false picture painting with words, has to be intentional. The "location" is great, the Cities suck. Crime etc.. but I am sure changing cities to location was intentional.
As a State MO has a lot to offer, as does Kansas. Kansas City, St Louis on the other hand are terrible.

You all need to make less assumptions about me. Or at least learn a bit more before taking your jabs at me. I don't think that fits your agenda though.

If All I was going to do was ride the KATY trail then I'd ride one of a few capable bicycles. I do have multiple bikes. Heck I could even CC tour on my Supersix EVO, but Sep.Oct is my favorite time of the year. Warm dry air, colder nights. Usually clear skies. perfect tent weather.
Based on total weight, 20/24 spoke Allroads would do the Job. It isn't a permanent bikepacking bike. while I do buy what I want to buy. Carbon bicycles etc... I don't just Buy one wheelset for one ride then put them in storage. the Allroads moved to the top of the list because In my opinion they make the most reasonable choice for a solid rim bed wheel. While not the lightest, they are light enough.

If I was buying the Bombtrack Beyond 1. then yeah it is a 30 pound bike. I'll probably Run a heavier 32 spoke wheel.

and on a world apart from your bicycle world...... On a Carbon gravel bike (1,100 gram frame) that will mostly ride smooth gravel, and then multi day trip once a year. I am not investing in a heavy wheelset. I don't expect you, or a handful of others to understand this.

Scrolling through the Post Gravel ride pictures.... most of it I could do on a 28, but I'd probably pick the Bon Jon 35. Which is another reason for wanting a solid rim bed tubeless wheel. Swapping tires becomes a lot lot easier as does cleaning up old dried up sealant. and time I want I could just throw on 42 resolutes. or a 38G'one, or a 40 MSO


Bottom line , I ain't you. So stop thinking you know what best for me.
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Old 09-15-19, 04:55 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
Bottom line , I ain't you. So stop thinking you know what best for me.
This is a real weird point to get to in a thread you started asking for advice.
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Old 09-15-19, 05:17 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by DanBell View Post
This is a real weird point to get to in a thread you started asking for advice.
and he is way off target now off on some lecture tangent.

When the gauntlet was throw down on the Point of 20/24 spoke wheels. They admitted that I PROBABLY WOULDN'T BREAK A SPOKE.
So why continue the Lecturing? what's next advice on frame color, Or skin-walls vs black tires?

Did I ask for advice on Katy trail? NO

how to get there? NO

what season to do it in? NO
etc....
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Old 09-15-19, 06:12 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
It isn't my place to tell the owners of Bikeforums.net how to run their business but I will offer that permitting argumentative, lecturing and condescending members and even culling moderators from those who are adept at it is the main reason why I have not become a paid member.

I try not to condemn people or groups but will condemn behavior and ideology. I don't hate any man, nor wish anyone ill - on the contrary, I hope that those who exhibit such behavior recognize the fact and change. The good news is that behavior can change. I'm proof, though I still have a long way to go.

Its to the point where having a reasonable conversation with anyone is an extreme rarity.


-Tim-
What's amusing is how people are so quick to judge (WWJD) yet don't understand the dynamics of being back stage. I've approached you before on this topic to explain to help you with this. I've even offered you a chance to come and volunteer like the rest of the staff so you can contribute in areas that you feel we are lacking.

As I said before, perhaps this place is not for you.

There are indeed other forums that might satisfy your needs.

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Please dont outsmart the censor. That is a very expensive censor and every time one of you guys outsmart it it makes someone at the home office feel bad. We dont wanna do that. So dont cleverly disguise bad words.

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Old 09-15-19, 07:09 AM
  #45  
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What's amusing is how people are so quick to judge (WWJD) ...
Probably respond with a probing question, whose answer is so obvious, it would not even require a response.

But I digress, I don't think moderators can prevent people from arguing, just call out personal attacks when they see them. I simply blame the people arguing, and avoid contentious threads entirely, it's not worth ruining my day over.
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Old 09-15-19, 07:56 AM
  #46  
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yes, arguing isn't against the rules as long as it's civil, i.e., no insults. Of course, most people can't keep it civil in a long back and forth argument. And some people consider disagreement to be uncivil. It's a fine line, but we really just police insults. It would be nice if people would just have their say and not restate it over and over in new posts, but that's not against the rules.

As far as the OP goes, I grew up in an era where 32 spoke wheels were the province of radical weight-weenies, so I'm a little too biased to participate in this discussion. However, I ride with someone who has Mavic wheels, and there is always something wrong with them. Getting parts can be an adventure. I like j-bend spokes and hubs that come from companies that support their parts a bit better than Mavic does.
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Old 09-15-19, 09:10 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
To refresh memory, this was the question: My question is how much wheel is needed for bikepacking or light touring on gravel? All of my feedback has been on the factors to consider in answering that question. Although you asked the original question, my responses are directed towards the topic in a general sense as you seem to have your mind already made up and this is an open discussion forum where others may be following along with similar questions, considerations or ideas. Feedback seems to suggest it is helpful. Feel free to ignore what I say and do as you wish. I hope you find some happiness in whatever you do.


Try to have a good day.
I've certainly found your posts on this thread helpful an interesting to read. Thanks for taking the time.
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Old 09-15-19, 09:19 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
As far as the OP goes, I grew up in an era where 32 spoke wheels were the province of radical weight-weenies, so I'm a little too biased to participate in this discussion. However, I ride with someone who has Mavic wheels, and there is always something wrong with them. Getting parts can be an adventure. I like j-bend spokes and hubs that come from companies that support their parts a bit better than Mavic does.
My Mavic experience might be bias too? With the majority of my positive experience being on the 2005 era ksyrium elites.
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Old 09-15-19, 09:28 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
It's still possible though

A couple of years ago, after a particularly crazy incident with one (now banned) member, I decided that I would try to add content whenever possible and let the chips fall where they may. That's why I make threads about trip reports, gear reviews and bike builds I'm working on. Some times I get sucked personally into a debate but then I try to pull back and regroup if I can.

In this case, there is no magic "one" answer to the question - just how to think about the problem and what parts go into the risk reward equation. Those components: likelihood of failure, cost of failure, cost of mitigation, reward for risk... are all a sliding scale.

If someone is convinced the risk of failure is zero, as in this case, then there is no need for mitigation and the rewards (weight savings of a few spokes), even if small are a bonus (money being no object as stated). If the risk of failure goes up.. but the cost of that failure is low (as in an easy extrication and minimal loss of tour time), then the rewards may also win out. But if the risk of failure is uncertain, and the cost of failure is high (having to walk a bike many many kilometers to a trailhead or ending a long anticipated tour) then the cost of mitigation (higher spoke count) may become more attractive than the marginal gains from taking that risk (low spoke count).

It's pretty common to do this risk/reward consideration for touring components and bike packing is no different in that regard. The OP may think no one in the touring section has ever heard of bikepacking before but he is about 5 years behind the times. We've been talking about it for a while going back to the enthusiastic advocacy of user Max the Cyclist from my memory. In fact it was his reports that convinced me to buy my first bike packing bags.

This is my current touring bike https://www.norco.com/bike-archives/...e-disc-tiagra/ which, aside from the saddle bag which I prefer over the seat bag I also own, is basically a bike packing rig suitable for gravel. That was taken during an 850km trip. There it has 28c tires but now has 32's and could take 35's or a 650b wheelset if I want (for me money is a consideration). Currently waiting for my dropper post that will fit both this and my fat bike. Tent is in the HB bag, Sleeping bag, mat and clothes in the saddle bag, electronics tools pump and food in the frame bag and wallet/camera/snacks in the gas tank bag.

What is that rack you have on the rear of bike. Looks like a basic rack that you cut down to support that large seatbag.
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Old 09-15-19, 10:03 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Siu Blue Wind View Post
What's amusing is how people are so quick to judge (WWJD) yet don't understand the dynamics of being back stage. I've approached you before on this topic to explain to help you with this. I've even offered you a chance to come and volunteer like the rest of the staff so you can contribute in areas that you feel we are lacking.

As I said before, perhaps this place is not for you.

There are indeed other forums that might satisfy your needs.


I am a moderator on another forum and I understand what the moderator team's intentions are. The reality is that internet forums are a dying breed, users are moving on to the more popular social media platforms, plain and simple. On the various social media platforms one's ideas and comments are becoming so sanitized that you can hardly have a real conversation without most of it getting deleted.

Sure Bike Forums has a code of conduct that must be followed for the most part. But more often than not I see posts that are close to crossing the line are left as-is. Which to me is a good thing. Over moderating is far worse than under moderating when it comes to discussion forums. I also think suggesting to others that they just simply leave Bike Forums if they aren't happy isn't helpful. The feedback you get from your moderation, or lack thereof, should be welcomed regardless of how it is presented or whom it is from( @TimothyH ). If everyone had the same viewpoint and/or level of knowledge this forum wouldn't exist at all.

All I can do is offer up this advice.

If you see problems in a thread you can:
  1. Report the post. The moderators rely on reported posts for the majority of their duties.
  2. Ignore it and keep reading. It's not that hard to just move along.
  3. Join in the discussion and try to turn the conversation away from the drama. Usually doesn't work but it's better than getting mad about it.
  4. Turn off your phone or computer and go for a bike ride or do the bike maintenance you keep putting off . Best solution if you ask me.
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