berlinonaut

As I assume that you are pointing at me (though I surely never wrote the Brompton would be "wondrous, amazing, unbeatable"): You obviously got something wrong. Mr. Remi wrote his opinion here in this thread that - paraphrased - Peter Boutakis would be a clueless idiot who would never achieve building a single bike and furthermore he would probably not even intend to do so but fooled his backers to get the money. Tough I do not agree with this opinion Joe Remi obviously has every right to have it as well as to publish it (within what is legal where he posts it). i do however see no value in repeating the very same argument over and over w/o adding any additional argument. And - judging from the history of this thread - I was not the only person with this opinion. Now, that the Helix has materialised Joe has proven to be wrong and seemed to be in kind of a reality shock for a couple of days. Until he discovered his new opinion: Peter has lied to the backers about the weight and a ti-bike that weights 11,x kg is nothing but a bad joke. Again I would not agree and again Joe has every right to have and publish his opinion. But as he again starts to repeat this opinion in the very same way every couple of posts over the last pages like a broken record I am again of the opinion that this repetitions do not add any value to this thread and it would be more interesting if he would tell something that he did not tell numerous times before in the very same way. That's all.

Regarding the Brompton: I own one and I like it. It has it's downsides along with it's upsides but overall for me it is a pretty solid package for my needs. That's why I own one. If something pops up that fits my needs better I might switch. This is why I am interested in the Helix in the first place. Time will tell but until now I does not seem a fully blown Brompton-replacement for my needs. Others may prefer other folders over the Brompton and there's nothing wrong with that. However: When someone makes false claims about i.e. the Brompton I might correct him in case I now better. Pretty simple.

The astonishing thing is that with all it's quirkyness over the course of the last 40 years nobody has managed to build a better compromise bike for those where the folding has relevance. Which is really strange but leads to the conclusion that Andrew Richie probably did something right. Still it is obviously not everybody's favorite bike and there's nothing wrong about that.

So if you manage to distinguish between opinions, false claims/alternative facts and the generic topic of netiquette/forum culture (like i.e. not to play the broken record game) you might be able to judge more reasonably as it seems you targeted into the wrong direction. Which you are still free to do - it's your opinion and it's said to be a free country after all.

Joe Remi

I'm not going to sit here and put up with this ridiculous treatise on every opinion I've ever had since March 2016, not the least of which because I couldn't begin to go over every comment and every adjustment to a previous comment. The fact that you seem to have done so is psychotic, and now I'm going to report it and let the moderators sort it out. My understanding is we're not supposed to post comments that are mostly just attacks on other posters.

Joe Remi

I don't agree with the premise that a Brompton is "1980s technology"; I pay good money for lugged steel bicycles with 9-speed cassettes, bar-end shifters and quill stems and don't consider it 1990s technology either.

Brompton has a perfectly good and fascinating steel frame which doesn't need updating. In the last 5 years the cranks, brakes, bars, levers, shifters and grips have all been improved, and you can get the whole schlamozzle in a 6-speed for around $1500. I think that's a raging deal in 2019.

BillyD

Photothatdodo

Hi Billy D -- I've been a lurker on this forum for about a year and didn't feel any need to dive in. While I agree that some of the arguments and antipathy in this discussion are a little overblown, as far as I know this is the only place on the internet to get updates on the Helix folding bike. True the discussion is full of rumor and speculation, but it is providing a public service and I would ask, on behalf of folding bike fans and those that are interested in the Helix, that you keep the forum open.

Thank you for your consideration and for providing the folding bike community a forum.

linberl

I find it interesting that Brompton comments are often of such intensity on both sides, and now the Helix comments demonstrate the same intensity. That's ONE way the two bikes are equal, lol. Bike Friday, Dahon, and other folding brand people are just so chill...... ;-)

tds101 

Actually, you never even came to mind. I usually see you discuss things, and your discussion of Brompton isn't one sided. You have moments, but I don't mind reading your posts. Relax,... LoL!

No, I made a general statement, and reguardless of what you're saying, unless rules have been broken, all of us are entitled to an opinion. If someone has an issue with it, it's something that a moderator would need to make a judgement call on. As for the slander accusations, that's ANOTHER moderator issue. But, bullying a forum member? Nope,...unacceptable. And if you, or anyone else has an issue with another forum member, attacking them isn't the way to display "netiquette". I personally got in trouble for overreacting in the past, but I should have known better, due to the fact that I used to be a forum moderator. So, if you have an issue with someone, stop trying to tear them apart, and contact a moderator. Otherwiset some have no basis for complaints against that individual. Some need to take appropriate action, and not insult others.

As to being a "broken record", and "alternative facts",...this is the internet,...EVERYONE is allowed to be as repetitive, redundant, off base as they choose to be. But, Joe has had his "opinions", and has backed them up in the past. He's apologized, and been an adult about it when he's made mistakes.

Joe Remi

What about Tern?? 😂

tds101 

EXACTLY!!! LOL!!! Instead of discussion, it's all defensive, and full of fanboi'ism. Unacceptable,... People need to talk, not preach.

tds101 

Such an eevl man!!!

linberl

"and other folding brand people"........you tryin' to start an argument, huh? put yer dukes up mister!

Double0757

Joe Remi

Well it's pretty, I'll say that. I'll be interested to see how those dials work when someone has done it a couple dozen times. They look fiddly on first viewing - and presuming he hasn't done it a lot - but I suppose the flippers on Bromptons are that way, too. There's no catch for the steering mast when folded?

Raxel

Brompton is almost entirely 1980s tech (primitive pusher system, quill type handlepost, separate pentaclip, primitive hinge lock etc). It doesn't matter people want to buy them or not. It's still an old tech.

It is made of cheap and heavy material (hi tensile steel, not even chro-mo), lacks quick release hinge system, has lousy external cable management, does not support proper derailleur solution etc... Most of them are addressed by other folders (and helix) over years.

Being made in UK is never an advantage, unless you are a British citizen want to support local industry.

Burke is VERY low volume product (does anyone have one?), made in full titanium by Lynskey.
And most Bike Fridays are full custom BTO bikes unlike Brompton, and much lighter ln general.

Tyrell bikes are EXCEPTIONALLY well made (in Japan, no less), with hydroformed tubes, invisible welding lines and very expensive Kadowaki powder coat painting (which alone costs like $500, if done separately. I know a number of Brompton owners who let their frame powdercoated at Kadowaki). And they are still cheaper than Brompton.

He did NOT prove he can keep making Helix bikes and make profit (which I still don't believe).

Joe Remi

Raxel, your premise is that all tech has to be "new" or it's "old". I think it's a flawed way to look at bicycles, as I expressed when I told you about the (expensive) lugged steel bikes I buy. I have a "modern" titanium Seven with STI shifters, but IMO it's just different, not an improvement over the steel stuff with quill stems and bar-end shifters. Which is how I feel about Bromptons, I like the way they work. The fold is unimprovable and I don't need a 10-speed cassette and derailleur mucking about back there. The 6-speed IGH with pusher is great.

Joe Remi

For the record - as anyone who has read this thread knows - I obviously doubted Helix would happen, while stating I hoped I was wrong. Pointing out to someone who was happy to be wrong that they were wrong is STUPID.

Gibsonsean

So how about that Helix then...

Joe Remi

Fiddly 😁

Lalato

That real world fold/unfold video does make the bike look fiddly and a little troublesome to fold... but that could just be the owner's unfamiliarity with this particular folding mechanism. I've never seen anything quite like it (not good or bad... just different) on a folding bike.

Looking forward to the next video and/or review.

Joe Remi

Yeah, it's hard to say. I'm sure my first few times folding/unfolding a Brompton looked about like that.

Jipe

The video is very interesting !

It show the folding with plastic, slow and hard to operate locking mechanism (fork, stem/handlebar, locking of the folded front wheel). The rear triangle locking seems much better and better than the one of the Brompton.

I show that Helix rolls on its front wheel only, not both wheels.

It show the weight of 11.38kg without any accessory.

And the folded size of about 80x60x30cm without saddle and seatpost , maybe 90x70 with the saddle+seatpost, much bigger than a Brompton, similar to a Birdy.

The pentaclip offer a lot of saddle position adjustments, more than what the strange ugly potentially dangerous Helix seatpost offer, it is not a standard quill (changed recently), Brompton hinge are faster to operate than Helix locking mechanism and have proven to be reliable even with several daily fold/unfold which isn't case for Dahon hinge system for instance.

Now, who cares of old or new technology, what is important is the bike performances in any aspect (ride, fold, size, weight, utility, comfort...) and Brompton is the best in fold, size and utility, has very good riding and the superlight version weight less than Helix. The main weak points of the Brompton are its transmission (limited total range of 302%, too big spacing of about 25% between gears) but it is possible to mount an Alfine 11 or Rohloff Speedhub) and comfort due to high pressure, relatively narrow tires and poor rear suspension (but Helix has no suspension at all and also uses high pressure, relatively narrow tires).

Note hat titanium is also an "old" technology that appeared about 30 years ago for bike frames, didn't evolve at all (same alloy as 25-30 years ago) and is replaced since about 20 years by carbon and recently by... new stainless steel like Columbus XCR and Reynolds 953.!

The video show that the release of the Brompton hinge is quicker than the mechanism used by Helix ! Internal gear hub is better for a utility bike than external derailleur system becaus they are cleaner, last longer and need less maintenance.
You forgot the titanium fork and rear triangle of the superlight !

Indeed, Burke is handmade but is 3 times more expensive.
No, several BF models (there are and were a lot of BF models !) are as heavy and much bigger folded. BF also uses old technology !


Tyrell bikes are EXCEPTIONALLY well made (in Japan, no less), with hydroformed tubes, invisible welding lines and very expensive Kadowaki powder coat painting (which alone costs like $500, if done separately. I know a number of Brompton owners who let their frame powdercoated at Kadowaki). And they are still cheaper than Brompton.[/QUOTE]
You wrote "Being made in UK is never an advantage, unless you are a British citizen want to support local industry" why is it then important for Tyrell to be mad ein Japan ? Only the Ive is comparble to the Brompton, the others are more expensive (some very expensive).

Actually, the only unique selling proposition of Helix is its price but as you say, the production of a few first samples doesn't prove that Helix at its current price is a viable business.

Now, last point: why do I/we speak so much of the Brompton ? It is just because there is no other equivalent folder on the market ! The only two I could consider is the Tyrell Ive but it is too small for people of 1.80m or more and the Burke which isn't available in Europe and that I never could test (I have some doubts about its comfort).

MrFlamey

Even though that video was in Korean, it somehow seemed to show the folding better than the 10 minute video Peter posted a while ago on the backer portal

I don't think it looked fiddly or slow to fold. It looked absolutely fine. The guy demonstrating the fold was showing how the locks work, not trying his hardest to unfold and fold the bike quickly, and with that in mind, I don't think it will take much more work than my existing bike. All the latches and things make it look safer and less creaky than my bike too, although I'll not know until I eventually get to ride one.

harlond

Well, my perspective is I'm not the one defending the guy that's three years behind and two pounds over what he promised because it's kickstarter. I'm comfortable with that.

Joe Remi

That's true. Without being able to understand the language, I think I misunderstood how much time he was spending on instruction rather than simply unfolding and folding his bike. Hopefully he'll post another vid showing how quick it can be done.

linberl

I don't know about anyone else, but I come here to read about and view videos on the Helix. I think the bike can be judged on its own merits rather than in comparison to other bikes that arent' the same size or technology. Maybe other bikes are reference points, but I'm getting bogged down in long passionate diatribes about why other bikes are superior -- maybe that should be left for threads about those bikes?
I am curious about the mechanisms on the Helix, as I mentioned, I am concerned about the "fiddly" locking caps which don't appear to provide much leverage. What actually happens when you are "pumping" up and down on the locking parts - and is it something that can wear out? Is it easily replaced then? How much maintenance on the Helix is more or less proprietary and will Helix be providing parts for those who choose to work on their own bikes? Yeah, I'm looking past the initial suprises and disappointments of what didn't happen and thinking about what it is. In some ways I think this could be a pretty cool bike for my adult son who lives in a studio apartment, rides hundreds of miles each week, and travels by train. He's 6 feet tall and I know there's no way I'd ever get him to ride a 16" wheeled bike (too young and self-conscious about looking clown-like) and he also likes doing some moderate off-road riding. A 24" folder could fit his needs nicely...and maybe be a gateway drug to folding bikes, lol.