graywolf

OK,

Does anyone know where I could buy a full chaincase that will fit an English 3-Speed bicycle without removable seatstays?

I hear there are modern plastic ones that will work, but I have not found any with a google search.

roughrider504

I am no help, but do you want a full chaincase just for the looks? I have a vintage roadster with the chaincase and all the trimmings and I could tell you its a bit of a pain. The newer ones are probably more user friendly, but do you really need one? IMO, if you used a normal chainguard with the Raleigh sports or Raleigh clone design and the paint matched the frame, it would look really good! Maybe its just me though.

graywolf

Partially to protect the chain, partially to protect my pants, partially for the looks. Partially because I really want an old roadster, but am not in an area where I am likely to find one, and can not afford to buy one off ebay or from England. And one hundred percent because I want one.

Yes, I know they are fiddly, and a pain if you have a flat (notice that I knew the old ones require removable seat stays). I kind of thought that the Utility forum people would be the most likely to know of a source.

graywolf

Well, some of it seems to be using different terminology. "Chainglider" came up with this:
https://www.hebie.de/html/en/detail_schuetze.php?id=0350

It will not work on my 46 tooth chain ring unfortunately. I will continue trying to find something that will.

Allen

^^^
The Urbane Cyclist out of Toronto (and on the net) carries the Hebie Chainglider as does one of the posters in the Commuting section.

I haven't finished the bike that I'm mounting this one, but here is what they look like.


In the box


And apart

graywolf

Thanks, I will take a look over on the Commuting Forum. Unfortunately I do not think the Herbie will work with a 46 tooth chain ring. Also I could not find it listed on the https://ucycle.com site, but that is pretty common, very few bike shops list all of their inventory on their website.

K6-III

Apparantly Yellow Jersey is selling full chaincases for $50 here:

https://www.yellowjersey.org/mguard.html

Not sure if they will fit a Raleigh 3spd.

graywolf

Standard Roadster chanincase. They are too long, maybe could be adapted, but the major problem is that they require a removable seat tube.

I see Velo Orange has a half-chaincase on their site, pretty expensive though.
https://yhst-84224226242177.stores.yahoo.net/chpr.html

K6-III

Apparantly Hebie also makes this, model 355:


https://www.hebie.de/pdf/0355_E1_EN.pdf

BikeManDan

I currently have 38T and 44T Hebie Chaingliders in stock at https://www.bikefront.com

The chainring limitations are kind of a drag but unfortunately it is the nature of the beast. I went as far as changing my front chainring just so I could get a Chainglider to work.

Tujunga Kid

Graywolf, you can find a Raleigh chaincase right now on e-bay. They don't come up often. However, be aware that unless your Raleigh has the specific mounting point - a brazed-on screw hole on the r.h. chainstay - the case will be highly problematic. Alignment and tolerances are pretty critical here, so the jury-rigging potential will be limited. (I am currently learning this the hard way, even with the correct frame; hence my crusing this forum.)

PaulH

As far as I know, Raleighs did not use full chaincases. One found those on the heavier British roadsters. Consequently, it's going to be a tough search.

I've started to wonder how necessary a full chaincase really is - a good chainguard and front fenders stop most of the crud. For example, my bike has a standard chainguard that covers the chainwheel and top of the chain. I never touch the chain, and I still bet about 5,000 miles between replacements. It protects my clothing perfectly - I'll hop on the bike in a $2,000 suit without hesitation.

The Hebie chainglider is a modern device and much unlike what the roadsters had. If you want the roadster look, maybe you can adapt a case from Pashley, in England. Personally, I'd just get a Raleigh chainguard, restore the bike as a Raleigh, and look for a real roadster from China or India.

Paul

Tujunga Kid

The Raleigh DL-1 Roadster, the Superb and Sports, at least, definitely came with chaincases in their earlier days ('30s - '60s). The rh chainstay has a mounting point for the case. It seems that many Raleighs that made it to the States commonly came with a chainguard instead of a chaincase, although the mounting point redundantly remained for several more model-years.

There is a story out there about how US Customs taxed imported bikes based on weight, and deleting the chaincase made the bikes a little cheaper here. I have my doubts about this story, however.

I really like the look of a chaincased city bike, but in my current messing around with my '60 Sports (chaincase model), I have come to agree with PaulH: the full case isn't worth it.

Here's why:

1. It never rains in southern California. And anyway, the Sports is not my rain bike.

2. They're noisy. In my research, People always said the cases are noisy. I thought they meant it was tough to make sure the chain doesn't scrape along the case. Maybe that is part of it, but for me the real noise of the case comes from its intrinsic characteristic of amplifying sound, kind of like an acoustic guitar body. It's kind of a hum as you roll along, and I like my bikes quiet.

3. They make it tough to change out a tire or tube. An obvious puncture can easily be repaired without removal, but otherwise it can be a real hassle while out on the road.

4. Even though I really like the look, I feel a little like a poser Euro wannabe while riding around on it.

So I am going to transfer all the good parts back to my '70 Sports frame (with chainguard) and sell the '60.

It's been a good learning experience.

Mark McClure

coldfeet

With the wide variations of bicycle frames, drivetrains, sprocket variations etc
the only way I can see for a lot of people, is custom builds, by someone local.
If you accept the limit of a "top and front" cover, it becomes a little easier.
My own feeling is, that a full wrap around the front sprocket, to just under the
front edge, and carry the top back to as close to the rear hub as possible,
with a projection down the back of the chain to keep the water funneling off
the rear tire, you get most off the advantages of a full case. I still would like a
full case, can't see how to do it on say, a Big Dummy. It would be nice to have
an oil bath, for longevity, but maybe with a good enough "half" cover, one could
use an oil dripper, a' la Rohloff.

On a separate note, I saw a derailleur equipped bike sold by Topeak, it had a top
and front chain cover. I wonder if they plan to sell it separately?

graywolf

Nice to see a few more comments here. I am currently on hold with the bicycles, as my SS only covers one hobby at a time, so I kind of rotate; but I have not given up hope.

A comment for those who do not know, you can not easily fit an English style full chaincase on most hockey stick chainguard English bikes because the full chaincase has to go inside the seat stay. The bikes that came fitted with them had removable seat stays for that reason. In the end, probably the best thing to do is find a 50's Roadster that already has a full chaincase and restore it; as you can see from my sig line that is really what I want anyway.

As for noise, I seem to remember that they hum and boom and rattle a bit .

NormanF

You could probably cut out a portion so it can clamp onto rather than need to go inside the seat stay. Installing a full chaincase on a Roadster that doesn't have a removable seat stay requires some work but in the end its the only way to make a Roadster look completely authentic. On other bicycles its just not worth the trouble involved.

graywolf

Since Norman brought the thread to the top again, I thought that I would comment that I still have not gotten a chaincase but am still wanting one. I had decided that a modern one is not appropriate for my vintage look though. I notice that Yellow Jersey is now showing one for 26 inch bicycles as well as the one for the 28" full roadster. I believe that with some chopping and homemade brackets I could fit one to my light roadster (sports).

For some interesting information. I recently found out that due to the US government wanting England to get the dollars to pay back their war loans that there was no import duties on English bicycles in the 1945-1955 years, so the idea that the chaincase made the bikes have higher duties is a false one, besides that a DL-1 with the chaincase is only 41 pounds anyway, well below the supposed 50 pound limit. Sheldon was not always correct.

NormanF

I won a vintage Rudge/Whitworth full chaincase off eBay yesterday. Its intended for my 28" full Pashley Guvnor - made over into a Roadster. I've been looking long and hard for a case like this and the ones Yellow Jersey offers as their site notes, range from decrepit to barely acceptable. I think Raleigh stopped fitting them after the late 1940s as a cost-cutting measure and that's why its rare to find a DL-1 in this country after that period outfitted with anything but a hockey stick chainguard. If the Rudge doesn't fit, I will gladly offer to resell it for the price I paid for it.

graywolf

No, Raleigh had them on the DL-1 in England up until near the end of production. However, I imagine the DL-1 was only kept in production as long as it was because the British government was still buying them. I also imagine that the reason the chaincases were hardly ever seen here in the USA was because the bike shops did not order the bikes with them figuring their customers would not know the difference anyway and they were cheaper with the hockey stick. I have no idea when the Sports quit being available with the chaincase in England, probably in the early sixties, as they were no longer being sold as transportation.

The Raleigh chaincase was not really an oilbath one like the Sunbeam had their purpose was merely to keep the chain clean. The Sunbeam's was intended to run with oil in it. Strange the things you find out reading old books.

I have watched a few of those chaincases on eBay, however I am not willing to pay the kind of money they usually go for. The last I was tracking went for $72 plus shipping, and it was missing a part or two. I hope you did better than that. BTW, the current Pashley chaincase is supposedly plastic.

NormanF

The vintage one is steel. Its black and will come with all the necessary fittings. It came to over $100 because I had the foresight to make it high enough to beat a last minute bid. They are common in Europe but its very hard to get ahold of one here.

NormanF

I received the Rudge-Whitworth chaincase today. Luckily, it fit my Pashley Guvnor with shaving away the back end and the dust hole cover. A hole had to be drilled in the chainstay to hold it in place. It looks very good and the few scratches on it covered nicely with satin black touchup paint. The full chaincase is metal and lent itself to filing here and there to make it fit the bike. I'm quite pleased with it.

NormanF

The roadster full chaincase does NOT require a removable seat tube. Installation of one is fairly simple and straightforward: unscrew the back section and remove the bottom curved section, use a flat bladed screwdriver to remove the dust cover plate on the front and and shove the end onto the rear wheel and the front end on to the bottom bracket spindle. Depending on the bike, you may need to drill a hole in the chainstay to screw in the bottom support arm to hold the chaincase in place. Screw the back support arm to the chainstay at the end as well with an adaptor plate. Then you drop in the chain holding the bike vertical on a stand and fasten the link on the installed chainring. Check to see the chain and rear wheel move freely. Screw back on the bottom curved section removed when the full chaincase was first installed. Then reinstall the dust cover plate on the front to hide the chainring and chain. Presto, your chain should now be completely concealed in the full chaincase!

graywolf

That is interesting, Norman. Is the R-W chaincase the same as the Raleigh one? The only bike I ever worked on that had a full CC was a 50's sport, the seatpost was bolted to the rear dropout and had to be taken loose to remove the CC. How about some photos?.

NormanF

I'll have a photo posted as soon as the bike is built up.

Lou Guru

What timing! I was looking into chaincases because I want to fit one on my Raleigh Superbe, and I find this thread with posts that are really recent! I just acquired it the other day, and it looks ghastly. The light looks like it could be from a '60s model (because the button to turn it on is on the bottom), and someone repainted it in some metallic blue w/ black trimmings. (Were Superbes ever available in Blue?) There is a chainguard, which looks pretty small. I actually used to have Raleigh Superbe that I **stup1dly** scrapped after having an accident with it. I was in school then, and couldn't afford the repairs/restoration, but now I can (sorta) since I'm done school -but I figured I'll tackle one thing at a time.

On a different note, I'm thinking of getting a Chinese Flying Pigeon as well. I like how it looks, and it goes cheaper than a vintage Raleigh. Are they interchangeable w/ Raleighs in terms of parts (considering it's based on a DL-1)? Or are they poor fits, with poor quality? Any (unbiased) comments?