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Help me not hate tubulars!

Old 10-13-19, 06:04 AM
  #76  
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Few more tips for the repair-inclined tubular rider:

- The importance of matching the old stitch holes cannot be over-emphasized! Doing this prevents one from inducing a twist into the tire casing. If a twist does get sewn into the casing, the only solution is to cut the seam and re-sew the portion(s) that were twisted.

- Base tape mounting procedure -
0) Cut enough base tape such that there is enough to cover the entire sewn seam, plus about 5-10cm for base tape overlap. You will have to cut a small hole in the center of the base tape, about 3-8cm from one of the ends of the tape, in order to allow passage of the valve stem.
1) Apply two coats of Yellow Barge adhesive to the base tape, allowing the adhesive to dry between coats. Application should be to one side of the base tape, not both. Use the brush from the can, or a soldering flux brush for application.
2) Invert the tire such that the valve stem and seam are on the outside diameter. This procedure is much easier when the tire is deflated.
3) Apply a single, thin coating of Yellow Barge to the tire, along the sewn seam of the tire. The key is a THIN coating, evenly-distributed on either side of the seam. Put the Yellow Barge on with a trowel and you risk softening the rubber in the tire - thereby allowing the diameter of the casing to expand in uneven fashion. This in turn leads to inconsistent tire diameter and a lumpy ride.
4) After drying, apply the base tape to the tire, starting at the valve stem. Make sure that the tape is centered about the seam. Press firmly to ensure good contact between the base tape and the casing.
5) Wait five minutes.
6) Invert the tire again, so that the valve stem and seam are in the normal positions (on the inside diameter.
7) Carefully stretch the tire onto a spare tubular rim or wheel, making sure that the base tape doesn't slip too much. This may require gentle use of nylon tire levers. The best results will occur when the rim surface is clean and clear shoe polish is used in place of the usual mastic.
8) Once the tire is mounted, inflate to 50-120psi.
9) Allow the adhesive to set for 24 hours.
10) Deflate the tire, then remove the tire from the rim.
11) Profit.
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Old 10-13-19, 07:35 AM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by Mr. Spadoni View Post
Okay, that makes sense. Mfg website suggested new tape, but since flats sometimes? happen away from home, bringing along tape for a tire change seemed a bit awkward.
Biggest problem with on-road re-taping is removing the old tape on the road. But there seems to be fear of rolling tires.

I think everyone who rides tubulars should install their tires WITHOUT glue or tape, inflate fully, align the tires on the rims, and go out for a 1-mile ride on gentle roads. Get to the point of confidence where you can zig-zag the bike at low to moderate speeds. Then decide about how direly life-threatening it is to ride home or back to the car on a spare tubular that is not fully re-glued.

IMO rolling the tire just isn't a big risk as long as you keep the forces (braking, sprinting, high-speed turning) down. Accelerate gently, brake early and gently, and turn like you are your own grandparent. Your carbon Pinarello will appreciate how you are mindful of its continued good health! It will not think you are a wimp.

If you are in Colorado descending from the Pass on Trail Ridge Road (highest-altitude road in North America, >12000 feet) into Grand Lake, CO (where you can get food and drink and a 30 minute rest) this might not work as stated, but it's also not clear our brakes are truly up to that task, anyway. But special riding takes special preparation.

Trail ridge is the highest continuously paved road. The road up Pike's Peak is higher, to >14000 feet, but its not continuously paved. But there's a snack shop at the top!
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Old 10-13-19, 01:06 PM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by Road Fan View Post
Biggest problem with on-road re-taping is removing the old tape on the road. But there seems to be fear of rolling tires.

I think everyone who rides tubulars should install their tires WITHOUT glue or tape, inflate fully, align the tires on the rims, and go out for a 1-mile ride on gentle roads. Get to the point of confidence where you can zig-zag the bike at low to moderate speeds. Then decide about how direly life-threatening it is to ride home or back to the car on a spare tubular that is not fully re-glued.

IMO rolling the tire just isn't a big risk as long as you keep the forces (braking, sprinting, high-speed turning) down. Accelerate gently, brake early and gently, and turn like you are your own grandparent. Your carbon Pinarello will appreciate how you are mindful of its continued good health! It will not think you are a wimp.

If you are in Colorado descending from the Pass on Trail Ridge Road (highest-altitude road in North America, >12000 feet) into Grand Lake, CO (where you can get food and drink and a 30 minute rest) this might not work as stated, but it's also not clear our brakes are truly up to that task, anyway. But special riding takes special preparation.

Trail ridge is the highest continuously paved road. The road up Pike's Peak is higher, to >14000 feet, but its not continuously paved. But there's a snack shop at the top!
My carbon Pinarello ? What is this carbon Pinarello of which you speak?
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Old 10-14-19, 07:16 AM
  #79  
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Double sided tape

Originally Posted by Mr. Spadoni View Post
My carbon Pinarello ? What is this carbon Pinarello of which you speak?
There are some amazingly sticky double sided tapes. They are good for a couple of changes and you just plonk the new tape over the remains over the old - as long as it is not raining. Much of the adhesive pulls off the rim when the old tub is removed.
If the terrain is flat I wouldn't bother changing the tape if it was raining. However on a steep descent on a tub and a change in the rain was necessary I would suggest a cruising speed would be the prudent course of action until you got home or on flat terrain again.
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Old 10-14-19, 07:27 AM
  #80  
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I won't be the one to change anyone's opinion on tubulars, I don't understand the need for them in any way. I guess it was once a weight savings, right? But now with all lightweight tubes and clinchers, or even tubeless setups, I think there isn't an advantage. I get the nostalgia for them, but I know more people that end up "stranded" and calling for a ride because of them over the years than any other setup. Anyway, I don't mean to bash it really, but I steer clear of them as much as possible.
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Old 10-14-19, 07:29 AM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by Mr. Spadoni View Post
My carbon Pinarello ? What is this carbon Pinarello of which you speak?
Maybe you are the exception.

Seriously, it was a metaphor for machismo in cycling. If it inspires you to go out and find a Pinarello, enjoy it!
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Old 10-14-19, 11:34 AM
  #82  
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No more spoke induced pin hole leaks


I had been plagued with inner tubes forming pinhole leaks from the unforgiving requirement to get the covering on the spokes right when installing tires. Eventually I circumvented the whole problem by getting mag wheels on ebay. I did not bother to compare their mass to that of spoke wheels but the claim is they are lighter by some insignificant amount which does not matter to me because I use my bike to commute and not to race. With no spokes going through the rim there is nothing to cause pinhole leaks in the inner tube and I have been free from these leaks for almost half a year. I will never go back to spoke wheels.
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Old 10-14-19, 11:59 AM
  #83  
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I gave up on the fuss and muss years ago. Unless you're an elite racer, you'll find that today's clinchers will serve you just as well, without the hassles of tubulars.
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Old 10-14-19, 12:01 PM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by Road Fan View Post
Is this a thing, or is it a worry? Are you saying that glueing a new tire onto a clean, degreased rim actually does not work as well as in Ye Olden Days when we had to light up a Gauloise to be able to mount a sew-up correctly, establishing the proper mindset before starting the work?


IMO, it is the reverse- modern glue (e.g. Vittoria Mastik) holds initially and re-tacks much better than the old stuff.

I just had a problem with a tire on the CX bike- way out in the wild, and had to put on the spare, which had pretty old & dirty not great glue on it.

Still I had to work at it to get the tire off when I got home. A bit of warming from the brake track helps.



My .02:

The idea that it's good to leave a lumpy dirty thick layer of old glue on the rim is stupid.

I use a carving gouge to remove the lumps, and a scrub pad to clean & even out after that (tire base tape too). This takes longer than a wire wheel,

but the debris ends up under the work area & not spread over the whole room.
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Old 10-14-19, 12:45 PM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by Road Fan View Post
Maybe you are the exception.

Seriously, it was a metaphor for machismo in cycling. If it inspires you to go out and find a Pinarello, enjoy it!
Ah, a metaphor! Thought that might be the direction you were headed. Any perhaps you are right. A Pinarello might be needed. But Based on the bikes you have listed on your profile, I am sure that You can guess what material will be used in the frame!
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Old 10-14-19, 02:56 PM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by Love2Ride View Post
I gave up on the fuss and muss years ago. Unless you're an elite racer, you'll find that today's clinchers will serve you just as well, without the hassles of tubulars.

Originally Posted by mechanicmatt View Post
I won't be the one to change anyone's opinion on tubulars, I don't understand the need for them in any way. I guess it was once a weight savings, right? But now with all lightweight tubes and clinchers, or even tubeless setups, I think there isn't an advantage. I get the nostalgia for them, but I know more people that end up "stranded" and calling for a ride because of them over the years than any other setup. Anyway, I don't mean to bash it really, but I steer clear of them as much as possible.
It's about the experience. This is C&V and tubulars are part of the package with old-timey nice bikes. At least as much as steel frames, toe clips, slotted cleats, downtube shifters, and exposed cables. They do give a very nice ride, but I'd bet none of the tubular fans in here use them for any perceived performance advantage. I understand why some people don't want to bother with them, but I don't understand the need for people to make strawman arguments against them.

And personal anecdote FWIW - I've had to walk home or get a ride because of broken bones, broken cranks, broken chains, and failed clincher repairs - not once because of a sew-up issue.
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Old 10-14-19, 03:17 PM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by DiabloScott View Post
It's about the experience. This is C&V and tubulars are part of the package with old-timey nice bikes. At least as much as steel frames, toe clips, slotted cleats, downtube shifters, and exposed cables. They do give a very nice ride, but I'd bet none of the tubular fans in here use them for any perceived performance advantage. I understand why some people don't want to bother with them, but I don't understand the need for people to make strawman arguments against them.

And personal anecdote FWIW - I've had to walk home or get a ride because of broken bones, broken cranks, broken chains, and failed clincher repairs - not once because of a sew-up issue.
absolutely +1. It’s like an “ethos.”

I have 5 C&V bikes (clinchers and tubulars) and one modern carbon. I ride them all and whichever one I am on is my favorite. But I will say my two tubular rides are the most special feeling.

Sometimes I think we start tubular threads just to hear ourselves. Me included.
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Old 10-14-19, 03:21 PM
  #88  
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One may have the super duper of classic lightweights but unless you're riding on tubulars, you won't get the soul of the frame and maker.
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Old 10-14-19, 05:15 PM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by mechanicmatt View Post
I won't be the one to change anyone's opinion on tubulars, I don't understand the need for them in any way. I guess it was once a weight savings, right? But now with all lightweight tubes and clinchers, or even tubeless setups, I think there isn't an advantage. I get the nostalgia for them, but I know more people that end up "stranded" and calling for a ride because of them over the years than any other setup. Anyway, I don't mean to bash it really, but I steer clear of them as much as possible.
I've ridden some of the best clincher tires out there and they might be much better than the stuff we rode in the 80's and 90's, but I still haven't ridden any that could match the plushness (And in the case of the Vittoria Corsa G's I have on my bikes, speed) of a good tubular tire set. That's what personally got me into tubulars these past few years and I'm not looking back.
Now I'm really curious how a fine set of silk cased tubulars would ride like. Maybe I'll save that for an ultimate C&V grail bike that might still come to me in the future.
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Old 10-14-19, 05:50 PM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by mechanicmatt View Post
I get the nostalgia for them, but I know more people that end up "stranded" and calling for a ride because of them over the years than any other setup.
Proper Prior Planning Precludes Piss-Poor Performance.

Tubs or clinchers, if you've prepared you don't get "stranded".

Top
(who rides both and never walked home of called for a ride).
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Old 10-14-19, 07:14 PM
  #91  
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'Thought I'd chime in with news that, over the past weekend, I was given three pairs of Mavic Reflex SUP tubular rims. They came to me from a dear friend who's son's raced in the early 90's. One set is brand new, never laced. The other two sets are built up and in great condition. I may find new homes for some, but at least one set will see action next summer. So, what's not to like about tubulars.....one man's junk is another's dream.

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Old 10-14-19, 09:04 PM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by mechanicmatt View Post
I won't be the one to change anyone's opinion on tubulars, I don't understand the need for them in any way. I guess it was once a weight savings, right? But now with all lightweight tubes and clinchers, or even tubeless setups, I think there isn't an advantage. I get the nostalgia for them, but I know more people that end up "stranded" and calling for a ride because of them over the years than any other setup. Anyway, I don't mean to bash it really, but I steer clear of them as much as possible.

I'm guessing that road tubeless will overtake this top spot before long.
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Old 10-14-19, 09:55 PM
  #93  
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You can't hate this look! Clinchers might only look this cool with nos Velox that has the green graphics. And if there are globs of glue under the Tubulars of Concourse bikes, I'll be very sad.


Matrix ISO after a bit of Citristrip.
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Old 10-15-19, 05:06 AM
  #94  
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Tubular is still the best option

On my bikes I use clinchers, tubeless and tubular tires.........my tubular set up is still my favorite. I use Tufo tires and install on wheels with tape.......it's super easy and takes me about 15-20 minutes to change.... now that I have the system down. Then I pre-load the Tufo tire with the white Tufo sealant. I've had many punctures over the years with only one large puncture not sealing immediately so I put in the Tufo extreme sealant that I always carry with me on rides and it got me home for another 20 miles until I could change out that tire.
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Old 10-15-19, 11:19 AM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by Steve Whitlatch View Post
I actually had my first flat with a tubular a few weeks ago. A good size gash that ruined the tire. I switched out tires and was on my way much faster than with a clincher and if it had been a clincher, I do not think I would have been able to ride on at all.
with tubulars, as noted, you just swap tires.
With clinchers, you should/need to check the tire for whatever caused the flat and make sure it's not still stuck in the tire. This is certainly adds a bit of time to the process, and sometimes it can take a while to figure out where the hole in the tube is located and where the pointy object came through the tire.

Of course, some days it's tough to just get the old tubular off of the rim!

If you still have the flatted tubular, it would be a good chance to practice the techniques for patching one. If nothing else, it might confirm any hunch that it's too much trouble to be worthwhile.

Personally, I do fix flats if the tire isn't too worn. Having a proper Velox tubular patch kit, complete with thread, needle, thimble, and thin patches, certainly helps.


Steve in Peoria
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Old 10-15-19, 11:49 AM
  #96  
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So I may have missed if there's an answer to this somewhere in the ~100 posts, but.... between the Effeto Mariposa and Tufo tapes, which one is more likely to stay on the rim, rather than on the tire, when you remove it in the event of a flat? Or if they both stay on the tire, is either one amenable to being peeled off and re-stuck to the rim, for at least enough stick to get you home?
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Old 10-15-19, 12:01 PM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by mechanicmatt View Post
I won't be the one to change anyone's opinion on tubulars, I don't understand the need for them in any way. I guess it was once a weight savings, right? But now with all lightweight tubes and clinchers, or even tubeless setups, I think there isn't an advantage. I get the nostalgia for them, but I know more people that end up "stranded" and calling for a ride because of them over the years than any other setup. Anyway, I don't mean to bash it really, but I steer clear of them as much as possible.
Originally Posted by woodcraft View Post
I'm guessing that road tubeless will overtake this top spot before long.
I concur....for those people who don't take tubes with them.

I don't get road tubeless at all, ride not as good and heavier then clinchers or tubular (which still have an overall weight advantage when you include rims) ride is not as good and from all the posts i have seen in mechanics install and set up is a lot more painful then tubulars.
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Old 10-15-19, 01:37 PM
  #98  
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Originally Posted by madpogue View Post
So I may have missed if there's an answer to this somewhere in the ~100 posts, but.... between the Effeto Mariposa and Tufo tapes, which one is more likely to stay on the rim, rather than on the tire, when you remove it in the event of a flat? Or if they both stay on the tire, is either one amenable to being peeled off and re-stuck to the rim, for at least enough stick to get you home?
Neither and no.
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Old 10-15-19, 07:21 PM
  #99  
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Originally Posted by steelbikeguy View Post
with tubulars, as noted, you just swap tires.
With clinchers, you should/need to check the tire for whatever caused the flat and make sure it's not still stuck in the tire. This is certainly adds a bit of time to the process, and sometimes it can take a while to figure out where the hole in the tube is located and where the pointy object came through the tire.

Of course, some days it's tough to just get the old tubular off of the rim!

If you still have the flatted tubular, it would be a good chance to practice the techniques for patching one. If nothing else, it might confirm any hunch that it's too much trouble to be worthwhile.

Personally, I do fix flats if the tire isn't too worn. Having a proper Velox tubular patch kit, complete with thread, needle, thimble, and thin patches, certainly helps.


Steve in Peoria
I thought about practicing on it but I would need time to waste. The casing is compromised in a bad place so I would never ride this tire again. Perhaps It will be a fun cold winters night project ? I think it would be a real pain in the you know what though. LOL
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Old 10-15-19, 07:42 PM
  #100  
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Originally Posted by Steve Whitlatch View Post
I thought about practicing on it but I would need time to waste. The casing is compromised in a bad place so I would never ride this tire again. Perhaps It will be a fun cold winters night project ? I think it would be a real pain in the you know what though. LOL
Maybe we can find some time to waste on Saturday?
If you bring the tire, I can bring the patch kit. I've got an extra chunk of the "thread" used for sewing it back up that I can let you practice with.
Like gluing the tire onto the rim, patching a tire seems fairly daunting until you can try it once or twice.

Steve in Peoria
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