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Campagnolo needs a wide range drive train group

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Campagnolo needs a wide range drive train group

Old 10-19-19, 08:26 AM
  #26  
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I have the 2020 chorus 12 with 48/32 chainrings and 11-34 cassette. It works great for climbing the very steep hills in Colorado. To get any lower gearing, you'd have to buy an after market 46/30 crank. Even that wouldn't gain much.

When I was in my 50's I used a 50/39/28 Campy 10 speed in the mountains, but only used a 12-25 cassette. My new gearing is lower than the 28/29 that I could have used, back then.

FWIW, I'm 66 years old with two replaced knees, but weighing under 140 helps on the climbs.
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Old 10-19-19, 05:07 PM
  #27  
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Not that I have the money to spend, but I'd like to see Campagnolo produce a high end touring group. They might not sell a ton but if it was done in a high end fashion and priced accordingly, there are those who would pay the entry fee and Campy can make some profit in a new (old) segment. The same folks who have custom made frames and wear high end clothing would be there target customers.
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Old 10-19-19, 05:52 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by honcho View Post
Not that I have the money to spend, but I'd like to see Campagnolo produce a high end touring group. They might not sell a ton but if it was done in a high end fashion and priced accordingly, there are those who would pay the entry fee and Campy can make some profit in a new (old) segment. The same folks who have custom made frames and wear high end clothing would be there target customers.
Campy builds what people will buy. The new Chorus 12 offers low gearing that is lower than any triple group they made in the past (30/29) and it's priced lower than last year's chorus. Chorus shifters function identically to the top level record or super record, but use aluminum brake levers to cut costs a bit. The carbon crank lacks a fancy clear coat finish to save a few bucks.

If you just want to spend money and score points at the coffee shop, but a super record group, but use a chorus rear derailleur and 11-34 cassette. If you need the lowest gear ratio, only chorus offers the 48/32 crank.
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Old 10-19-19, 06:08 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by honcho View Post
Not that I have the money to spend, but I'd like to see Campagnolo produce a high end touring group.
So even the people that would like to see said group wouldnít pay for it? I assure thatís not motivation to create a touring group.

Originally Posted by DaveSSS View Post

If you just want to spend money and score points at the coffee shop, but a super record group, but use a chorus rear derailleur and 11-34 cassette.
Actually, Super Record functions superlatively over any other group out there. Spending money and coffee shops have nothing to do with it.
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Old 10-19-19, 06:40 PM
  #30  
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Don't mix function, need and money together. Many people buy Campagnolo because it's Campagnolo. They don't need Super Record, rather, they want Super Record and have the money to spend. My suggestion for a high zoot Campy touring group is for them to go after people who have the money and want the "best" in history, appearance, function. It's not just about putting together low enough gear ratios. I'm suggesting they build the gruppo equivalent of Leica cameras. Leica makes excellent cameras and lenses, but sold as much as jewelry and fashion accessories as photographic tools. Same as shooting sports where folks buy big bucks shotguns when a Remington 870 provides the same functionality for much less money.

Now, the bean counters at Campy World HQ probably know what they're doing by not making such a touring group but I can dream can't I?

Last edited by honcho; 10-19-19 at 06:49 PM.
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Old 10-19-19, 06:47 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Leinster View Post
Do SRAM and Huret partially share the 3+2 wins between them? Since SRAM took over the whole Sachs-Huret manufacturing operations and all.
I can't think of a reason to credit SRAM with wins prior to their existence.
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Old 10-19-19, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by honcho View Post

Now, the bean counters at Campy World HQ probably know what they're doing by not making such a touring group but I can dream can't I?
Why don't you use a big Shimano cassette (and chain) with a predominately Campy group and call it a touring group?

Last edited by pickettt; 10-19-19 at 09:33 PM.
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Old 10-19-19, 09:54 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
I can't think of a reason to credit SRAM with wins prior to their existence.
Then credit Huret with wins on gear built with their old designs in their old factories under a different name.
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Old 10-19-19, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Leinster View Post
Then credit Huret with wins on gear built with their old designs in their old factories under a different name.
Not sure I follow at this point. Which years do you have in mind?
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Old 10-20-19, 06:07 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by pickettt View Post
Why don't you use a big Shimano cassette (and chain) with a predominately Campy group and call it a touring group?
You didn't get that it's not about making something work by mixing and matching. It's about a complete high end Campy group for touring / trekking made by Italian (Romanian) elves at their bling best for people people who want what they want and have money to spend. Whether or not a perfectly suitable working setup can be made from their current catalog is irrelevant.
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Old 10-20-19, 07:31 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by pickettt View Post
Why don't you use a big Shimano cassette (and chain) with a predominately Campy group and call it a touring group?
Campy is quickly moving all groups to 12 speed and they have no RDs with the wrap capacity to use anything larger than a 34T cog.
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Old 10-20-19, 07:39 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by honcho View Post
You didn't get that it's not about making something work by mixing and matching. It's about a complete high end Campy group for touring / trekking made by Italian (Romanian) elves at their bling best for people people who want what they want and have money to spend. Whether or not a perfectly suitable working setup can be made from their current catalog is irrelevant.
Okay, then the short answer is, "No, you can't have it."


Originally Posted by DaveSSS View Post
Campy is quickly moving all groups to 12 speed and they have no RDs with the wrap capacity to use anything larger than a 34T cog.
Understood, but one could stay with 11 speed (personally, I'm not a fan of 12)...and a 34T is a pretty big cog. How low are touring bikes typically geared?

Last edited by pickettt; 10-20-19 at 07:43 AM.
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Old 10-20-19, 08:05 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by pickettt View Post
Okay, then the short answer is, "No, you can't have it."



Understood, but one could stay with 11 speed (personally, I'm not a fan of 12)...and a 34T is a pretty big cog. How low are touring bikes typically geared?
You want sub-1:1, ideally 20 gear inches (or a bit lower) if you're fully bagged. Which is why triples were/are great things--they give massive range that is actually useful, although with lots of overlap--and doubles just cannot match it....the closest with a road BB and a double you can get is a 48/32 or 46/30 double and either a big Shimano cassette (the 11/34 would probably get you down to 24 gear inches?) or a Road-Link.
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Old 10-20-19, 09:11 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Leinster View Post
Then credit Huret with wins on gear built with their old designs in their old factories under a different name.
And Sachs!
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Old 10-20-19, 11:36 AM
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Mountain bikes now go down to about 18 inches with a 34T single chain ring and a 50T large sprocket. The problem is the huge jumps between the sprockets that go from 10-50 with 12 speeds. On the road, it would feel like you're always in the wrong gear because the right one if in-between two sprockets.

Even shimano's 11-34 11 speed cassette has big jumps of 11-13-15-17...

Last edited by DaveSSS; 10-20-19 at 12:47 PM.
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Old 10-20-19, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by rebel1916 View Post
I feel like if this was actually something you were reeeeeaaaaallllly interested in, you would have picked up a Mirage triple or something.

You mean if what he really wanted was to score a full gruppo of 11 speed Athena Triple with a 12/32, he would have bought a used 1997 Mirage 8-speed triple with a 13/24 8 speed?

My wife's bike has that 1997 Mirage triple setup and it is still a fine performer, and she has an Athena 11 triple - adjustment is tweakier, but it works as well as a 10 speed 50/34 and 12/30 2x10 mainly Chorus, which is what I have on my Mondonico ELOS.
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Old 10-20-19, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
You want sub-1:1, ideally 20 gear inches (or a bit lower) if you're fully bagged. Which is why triples were/are great things--they give massive range that is actually useful, although with lots of overlap--and doubles just cannot match it....the closest with a road BB and a double you can get is a 48/32 or 46/30 double and either a big Shimano cassette (the 11/34 would probably get you down to 24 gear inches?) or a Road-Link.
Maybe with the increasing popularity of gravel racing, Campy will jump on that bandwagon soon. 46/30 might not be low enough for the OP but it would be a big step in the right direction. Especially since they are only making 11-X cassettes now...
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Old 10-20-19, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
Maybe with the increasing popularity of gravel racing, Campy will jump on that bandwagon soon. 46/30 might not be low enough for the OP but it would be a big step in the right direction. Especially since they are only making 11-X cassettes now...
We'll see. Even conservative Shimano has finally offered sub-compacts and even 1X....after years of ignoring the existence of both and leaving it to Wolftooth for 1X retrofitting, and leaving sub-compacts to IRD/Praxis/Sugino.

Shimano beating Campag to market on that space makes them a day late and a dollar short.
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Old 10-21-19, 09:53 AM
  #44  
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Campy's bike parts business is a legacy line. They would be fine selling no bike parts at all.

The day no one understands why Campy is the way they are and everyone rejoices in the iron heel of Shimano, that's the day Campy should close up shop. It's coming.
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Old 10-21-19, 01:57 PM
  #45  
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Campy sells all the product they can make. They've beaten the competition to 10, 11 and 12 speed and never made their hubs obsolete, like the competition. With 10 speed, it took 4 years for shimano to catch up. Now shimano will lag at least 2 years before they catch up with 12 speed.

There's info out already about the compatibility of campy and sram 12. The sram axs chain isn't supposed to work with campy 12, but it does. I've used the axs chain on both of my chorus 12 equipped bikes. Others have mixed campy and sram 12 cassettes with no problem. Campy hubs can even be converted to a sram XDR driver, to use with sram 12 cassettes.

Just because you don't see campy parts on prebuilt bikes at your LBS doesn't mean a thing. It's been that way for over 20 years.
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Old 10-21-19, 03:28 PM
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I totally respect a company sticking to their passion and their niche, and it seems campyís is road racing components..

I wish them well, but I have little use for their stuff.
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Old 10-21-19, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by alcjphil View Post
I feel your pain. Lucky for me that I live a 30 minute drive from probably the best Campagnolo distributor in North America. As a result, Campagnolo equipped bikes are pretty common here and lots of shops are able and willing to be helpful.
Marinoni? I just ordered a Piuma Ti. Canít wait to see it!
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Old 10-21-19, 08:40 PM
  #48  
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I want to build a full Shimano gravel bike 2x11 including the Ultegra RX shadow RD.

I want Campagnolo 11 speed Ergo shifters though. Is this possible? I am perfectly fine with mechanical discs for this plan.
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Old 10-22-19, 07:26 AM
  #49  
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J-tek makes cable pull adapters that might work with campy 11 shifters and the shimano RD, but with all the different models of shimano RDs, it also might not work. Google j-tek shifters.

You can still buy 11 speed ultra-shift levers, but none are in current production, since they are now all 12 speed. Only the lower level models are 11 speed and they don't work the same as ultra-shift.
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Old 10-22-19, 06:00 PM
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Thanks for the response.

So I quickly browsed the jtek website and didn't find anything about what I'm hoping for.

Here is my current (untested) logic.

The internet says with 11 speed, you can run Campy or Shimano cassettes. Shouldn't this mean that Campy and Shimano have the same pull ratios?

Like I mentioned earlier, this would be for a dedicated gravel bike that will be exposed to some very fast washboards (whether my butt likes it or not). I definitely want the clutch to keep chain slap down.

I currently like the idea of an 11-34 on a 2x11 system but could see a change in the future to 1x and using the left side for a dropper post.

This pretty much eliminates anything Campy except possibly the shifters and front derailleur.

Fun fact, my old skool gravel bike is 1x and has a Campy road crank. Every time I do something absurd with it, I like to laugh that it's probably the only Campy part that has ever been there.
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