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Federal Panel Seeks Mandatory Helmet Laws

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Federal Panel Seeks Mandatory Helmet Laws

Old 11-12-19, 03:44 PM
  #76  
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Here in Louisiana, the state has made wearing a helmet voluntary for motorcycle riders. I would not expect them to rule differently for bicyclists. However, I choose to not leave my garage w/o my helmet on.
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Old 11-12-19, 06:22 PM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by 63rickert
Well, it seems we agree about at least a couple of things. Wonders shall never cease. If you would be so good as to refer me to the model of your son's helmet that would be appreciated. Sincerely.
I'm going to not get into another thing with you about helmets as my faith in them extends only to a belief that I am marginally safer from severe brain injury wearing one than not. There's actually a fair amount of empirical proof of this, and I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on the engineering.

BUT I did get the name of the helmet and I really do hope it's a good fit for you at $60:
https://www.giro.com/p/bronte-mips-bike-helmet
You can even get it in plain white!

Wear it in good health, sir, and someday we two old coots can meet up on the bike path and argue about the time of day.
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Old 11-13-19, 10:35 AM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by foothillbilly
I'll admit to not reading the entire thread. Helmet-free riders are about 50% of the total here, and I live next to a recreational trail.

In any case, if mandatory helmet use comes here, I'll have a couple of nice bikes for sale cheap.
Here is a good example why dictates and regulations are bad. In this case this person says no more cycling for him if helmets become a law. That is just the opposite of what we need, we need more cyclist.
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Old 11-13-19, 10:38 AM
  #79  
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Back about 1990 give or take Bell made a helmet that had a hard lexan shell. I think the name of it was Tourlite. I wish they still made them. That was real protection.
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Old 11-13-19, 06:23 PM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by Stadjer
Still just another anti-cycling piece from the NYT.
I didn't think it was anti-cycling.
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Old 11-14-19, 05:22 AM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by rydabent
Back about 1990 give or take Bell made a helmet that had a hard lexan shell. I think the name of it was Tourlite. I wish they still made them. That was real protection.
What exactly is the benefit of a hard shell? It's just more efficient at transferring the energy to your brain. That's not a good thing.

No points for comparison to motorcycle helmets, totally different probabilities because of speed. You need to point to something a bicyclist is likely to encounter where a hard shell would provide better protection.

BTW, the fact that no one sells a hard shell bike helmet even though it looks stronger (marketing appeal) reflects that the science is so clear on this that anyone selling them would be liable for the inevitable brain injuries that would result.
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Old 11-14-19, 12:26 PM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by Arthur Peabody
I didn't think it was anti-cycling.
I'm always suspicious when the NYT writes about cycling because usually the message is not what it appears to be at first. I don't think it was fair and balanced on the helmet issue, and promoting helmets for urban cycling and even helmet laws is pro-cycling. It's what drivers and car lobbies do.
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Old 11-14-19, 04:20 PM
  #83  
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I guess the bottom line here is the fact many of us dont want some overbearing b'crat telling us what we have to do. This is supposed to be a free country. I ALWAYS wear my helmet, and those that dont really do make good organ donors.
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Old 11-14-19, 06:34 PM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by rydabent
I guess the bottom line here is the fact many of us dont want some overbearing b'crat telling us what we have to do. This is supposed to be a free country. I ALWAYS wear my helmet, and those that dont really do make good organ donors.
Bureaucrats can make recommendations, but only your elected officials can pass mandatory helmet laws.

When I was a young man and seat belt usage was becoming mandatory, the warning buzzer that would sound if you weren't buckled up was easily silenced by disconnecting the wires under the seat. Which we promptly did on all our cars because the government wasn't going to tell us what to do. Over the intervening decades, I somehow came to live with this gross imposition on my freedom.

I don't favor helmet laws either, but in the grander scheme of things I can't get all that excited about them. Especially since I don't see it as very likely that they'll actually be imposed in many jurisdictions.
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Old 11-14-19, 07:51 PM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
Snipped

As far as the shattering thing goes, yes, they shatter because they are dissipating the energy away from your head, just as the crumple zones in the car are dissipating the energy away from the passenger compartment. Bike helmets aren't designed to maximize their survival probabilities during a crash, they're designed to be sacrificed in order to increase the rider's chance of survival. Even if they appear intact after taking a blow, you should discard them as there may be microfractures that render them less effective.
Snipped.
Sorry but that is erroneous thinking. When a helmet breaks it's because the forces on the helmet have exceeded the helmet's foam capability. A shattered or otherwise broken helmet might be offering residual protection to the head via the broken pieces but impact absorption is virtually gone.

What gets me is when a helmet shatters or breaks very early like almost as soon as the impact occurs. I had a helmet that had a large piece break off the side when the helmet fell from the handlebar of a parked bicycle. I was really surprised about that and it got me to questioning nd looking for data on just how much protection a helmet really offers. I figure it's better than none but in some helmets that protection isn't much greater.

Cheers
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Old 11-14-19, 07:54 PM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by rydabent
I guess the bottom line here is the fact many of us dont want some overbearing b'crat telling us what we have to do. This is supposed to be a free country. I ALWAYS wear my helmet, and those that dont really do make good organ donors.
What I find interesting about the helmet debate is when an accident occurs, the bicyclist is killed because of massive internal injuries yet never hit his or her head and the media coverage says the bicyclist wasn't wearing a helmet.

Cheers
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Old 11-14-19, 07:57 PM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
What exactly is the benefit of a hard shell? It's just more efficient at transferring the energy to your brain. That's not a good thing.

No points for comparison to motorcycle helmets, totally different probabilities because of speed. You need to point to something a bicyclist is likely to encounter where a hard shell would provide better protection.

BTW, the fact that no one sells a hard shell bike helmet even though it looks stronger (marketing appeal) reflects that the science is so clear on this that anyone selling them would be liable for the inevitable brain injuries that would result.
The benefit of a hard shell helmet is that it also offers protection from punctures and it offers a LOT more protection if the head slides along asphalt. The inner foam of the hard-shell helmet is designed to absorb the impact. Also, the heard-shell causes the impact to be spread over a wider area of the helmet thereby reducing point loading of the impact.

Cheers
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Old 11-14-19, 08:00 PM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by rydabent
Back about 1990 give or take Bell made a helmet that had a hard lexan shell. I think the name of it was Tourlite. I wish they still made them. That was real protection.
Yes, in the late 1980s there were a number of good hard-shell helmets from different manufacturers. I too had a Tourlite. I also had a Vetta. It think manufacturers stopped making hard-shell helmets because it was a lot easier to make a helmet with a thin plastic coating. All that plastic coating is mostly for is to protect the foam from UV exposure.

Cheers
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Old 11-14-19, 08:49 PM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by Miele Man
Yes, in the late 1980s there were a number of good hard-shell helmets from different manufacturers. I too had a Tourlite. I also had a Vetta. It think manufacturers stopped making hard-shell helmets because it was a lot easier to make a helmet with a thin plastic coating. All that plastic coating is mostly for is to protect the foam from UV exposure.

Cheers
That's wrong. There's very little difference between the thin plastic and the hard shell in terms of slide protection and structural support. The foam is the impact absorber, and going with the thinner shell allows the foam to be thicker without putting a big heavy monstrosity on your head. It's true that in the event that the top of your head encounters a sharp object that the hard shell would provide more protection, but that's a fairly low probability event.

If you're flying down mountains at 40-55 mph, a hard shell might make sense, but for regular road riding, it's just not practical to make them wearable and safe.
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Old 11-14-19, 09:05 PM
  #90  
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FWIW, the early Bell bicycle helmets, including the Tourlite, didn’t have a Lexan shell.

However, the Tourlite remains popular among people who have fond memories of wearing goat hair shirts.

-mr. bill
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Old 11-15-19, 07:59 AM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by mr_bill
FWIW, the early Bell bicycle helmets, including the Tourlite, didn’t have a Lexan shell.

However, the Tourlite remains popular among people who have fond memories of wearing goat hair shirts.

-mr. bill
TBH, I don't think I ever wore a helmet until about 1992, when my first kid was born. By coincidence, my one and only over the handlebars experience occurred about a week before he was born, and his mother talked me into having to wear one at all times at that point.

I cannot relate at all to getting nostalgic for a model of helmet, and don't believe for a second that the ones in the 1980s were somehow better than today's.
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Old 01-28-20, 09:44 AM
  #92  
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Another unelected group of people trying to be dictators.
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Old 01-28-20, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by rydabent
Another unelected group of people trying to be dictators.

A comment as insightful as a cat coughing up a hairball.
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Old 01-28-20, 11:48 AM
  #94  
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The problem with helmet laws is like seatbelt laws. Police often go out of their way to enforce them in situations where it just doesn't make any difference. In fact, there are situations where seatbelts may cause more harm than help (whiplash, entrapment, etc).

On a few occasions, I've deemed that the helmet was actually more dangerous to wear than to remove, generally due to overheating in low risk areas.

I would like to see greater helmet use, but would also like to see more people actually out on the bikes.
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Old 01-28-20, 11:57 AM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by Flip Flop Rider
...why not mandatory helmets for skateboarders, or children playing outside in general
Why not require motorists to wear helmets? I bet there are WAY more head injuries in car accidents annually, than on bikes (per capita).
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Old 01-28-20, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
...cat coughing up a hairball.
Every couple of months my cat coughs up another hairball, just like her previous ones. Gotta wonder why, you would think once would be enough.
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Old 01-28-20, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
A comment as insightful as a cat coughing up a hairball.
I think @rydabent genuinely forgets that he has already posted in this thread.
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Old 01-28-20, 02:46 PM
  #98  
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Originally Posted by Riveting
Why not require motorists to wear helmets? I bet there are WAY more head injuries in car accidents annually, than on bikes (per capita).
join the car helmet revolution. You are right about head injuries, the ones suffered in cars far outstrip those suffered by cyclists. Spleen injuries is a different matter.

Note that helmet laws should also be considered for people that use showers. Also much more common to get a head injury in a shower than on a bicycle.
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Old 01-29-20, 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK
The problem with helmet laws is like seatbelt laws. Police often go out of their way to enforce them in situations where it just doesn't make any difference. In fact, there are situations where seatbelts may cause more harm than help (whiplash, entrapment, etc).

On a few occasions, I've deemed that the helmet was actually more dangerous to wear than to remove, generally due to overheating in low risk areas.
I don't think that's a fair comparison. Allthough a seatbelt prevents people from beeing slung out of the car and landing safely on that truck full of hay that happened to pass by, in allmost all crashes it does a good job at limiting injury. The bicycle helmet is more like 'this is the only thing I can think of that makes me a bit less vulnerable, so I'll wear it.'

I would like to see greater helmet use, but would also like to see more people actually out on the bikes.
Which could make cycling a lot safer. I'm not going to tell people in a much more unsafe cycling environment than I'm in to ride helmetfree. But for the sake of cycling, I believe everybody should keep in mind there's no such thing as a bicycle helmet, it's a traffic helmet or a sports helmet. The percieved need to wear one doesn't come from the bicycle itself.

Originally Posted by livedarklions
A comment as insightful as a cat coughing up a hairball.
Not really. In general the trend of moving decision making to panels, committee's, boards and councils is a democratic issue.

Last edited by Stadjer; 01-29-20 at 05:43 AM.
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Old 01-29-20, 06:02 AM
  #100  
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Originally Posted by Stadjer
I don't think that's a fair comparison. Allthough a seatbelt prevents people from beeing slung out of the car and landing safely on that truck full of hay that happened to pass by, in allmost all crashes it does a good job at limiting injury. The bicycle helmet is more like 'this is the only thing I can think of that makes me a bit less vulnerable, so I'll wear it.'


Which could make cycling a lot safer. I'm not going to tell people in a much more unsafe cycling environment than I'm in to ride helmetfree. But for the sake of cycling, I believe everybody should keep in mind there's no such thing as a bicycle helmet, it's a traffic helmet or a sports helmet. The percieved need to wear one doesn't come from the bicycle itself.
As far as bike helmets... if the issue is bike vs car accidents, then there is less of a chance of injury in a park or on a bike path. Of course, there are single bike accidents, or bike/bike or bike/pedestrian accidents. However, I don't think I've ever hit my head, even with a couple of low-speed flops.

It is rare that I have overheating issues with a bike helmet, but perhaps related to low speed (less ventilation), and working hard (cargo/hills/etc). I think once I felt the issue with a heavy cargo load, even in the early spring. And, another time on a day that hit > 100°F.

Nonetheless, I agree, for most riding the helmets are a good idea, at least within the parameters they were designed to protect from.

As far as seatbelts. They certainly are life-saving on the freeways. Yet, one has to also realize there are injuries associated with seatbelt use.

https://chiropractorofstlouis.com/bl...hiplash-injury

Noted elsewhere, banging into a steering wheel, dash, windshield, or being ejected from the car may be worse.

There seems to be a point around 10 to 20 MPH where the whiplash injuries are worse than unrestrained injuries.

Even at faster speeds, one frequently reduces speed considerably before collision, so one might be driving at 40 MPH, but impact at 10 MPH.
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