Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Help dating a Carlton?

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Help dating a Carlton?

Old 11-04-19, 08:03 PM
  #1  
Cibi42
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 42
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Help dating a Carlton?

hi all, over the weekend i came across a n+3 bike. Itís not a top of the line and is on the upper edge of too big for me, but couldnít resist it the chrome lugs and the victor seat cluster.
After a little bit of reading online it looks like itís a Carlton Criterium from around 1970 with all OEM parts, including the saddle. Having steel components, itís actually not quite as heavy as i was expecting, still not a fancy reynolds tubing, and should clean ip quite nicely. Itís not a fancy Italian stallion but should be a fun project.

Now, any clue on how to read these numbers, canít make it match anything i find online...?
Thanks for your help!







Cibi42 is offline  
Old 11-04-19, 08:17 PM
  #2  
Cougrrcj 
Over forty victim of Fate
 
Cougrrcj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 3,090

Bikes: A few...

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 319 Post(s)
Liked 26 Times in 19 Posts
You're on your own! I had a hard enough time dating on my own... especially being a no-car geek on a bike in high school...












.


In all seriousness, I'm sure one of the English bike guys will be along shortly....

Enjoy the ride!




.
__________________
'75 Fuji S-10S bought new, 52k+ miles and still going!
'84 Univega Gran Tourismo
'84 Univega Viva Sport
'86 Miyata 710
'90 Schwinn Woodlands
Huffy MTB - for trips to corner store
MTB of questionable lineage aka 'Mutt Trail Bike'
Cougrrcj is offline  
Old 11-04-19, 09:51 PM
  #3  
bulgie
Senior Member
 
bulgie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 86
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 34 Times in 20 Posts
Unfortunately there is info on how to date them in the range of '39 to '67 and the later range of '73 to '81
But the space in between is a bit of a mystery.

Quoting from a website that doesn't exist anymore, but you can see it here via the Wayback Machine: Dating Carltons
"From 1968 to 1972 two numbering systems were used. The majority of models had simple numbers, up to seven digits, sometimes with leading zeros, stamped on the left rear dropout, at the top of the seat tube to the rear or under the bottom bracket. I do not have sufficient data to analyse these numbers and relate them to specific years."

Please do post here any info you can find -- good luck!
bulgie is offline  
Old 11-04-19, 10:42 PM
  #4  
Cibi42
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 42
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Well, it looks like itís going to take a but more digging... thanks for the replies, iíll keep looking around.

I found an almost identical twin (slightly different crankset) online on retrobike forum Carlton Criterium | Retrobike that describes the bike as a 1970 but iím not sure how they came up with that date.

iíll go through the catalogues, it seems like there are quite a few online, and work by elimination.

even if i canít identify a precise date, i should be able to get a ball park, and either way it will satisfying to clean it up and bring it back to some glory.
Cibi42 is offline  
Old 11-04-19, 11:24 PM
  #5  
juvela
Senior Member
 
juvela's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 8,562
Mentioned: 245 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1773 Post(s)
Liked 105 Times in 94 Posts
-----

Dating -

this model of Juy Prestige shift lever launched in 1970; for the most part we did not see it on bicycles until 1971

the Juy Prestige rear mech model 637 also launched 1969-70

you may find a date marking on its backside such as this -



the cycle's Weinmann brake calipers may exhibit a date mark on the backside of the caliper arms in the form of a clockface, altough suspect they are a bit early for this type of marking



these saddles sometimes have a date mark stamped into the underside of the cantle

the cycle's wheel rims do not show up very well in the photos. if by chance they are Rigida SUPERCHROMIX they may have a date stamped inside of a small diamond symbol as here -



lastly, there may be a marking in the centre section of the bottom bracket spindle

hope this helps you a bit...

---

usage note -

before riding PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE lower the stem -

"DANGER Will Robinson!"

-----

Last edited by juvela; 11-04-19 at 11:29 PM. Reason: addition
juvela is offline  
Old 11-05-19, 12:37 AM
  #6  
bulgie
Senior Member
 
bulgie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 86
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 34 Times in 20 Posts
Originally Posted by Cibi42 View Post
I found an almost identical twin (slightly different crankset) online on retrobike forum Carlton Criterium | Retrobike that describes the bike as a 1970 but iím not sure how they came up with that date.

iíll go through the catalogues, (snip)
I have a scan of the 1970 Carlton catalog here, not very high-res unfortunately. I can see that the Criterium model had a Williams crank, the same one as on the retrobike forum. Williams chainrings also have a date code stamped in them, so that can help dating a bike.

You different crank could mean an earlier or later model year, or just a running change -- as we know happens -- real world bikes don't always match the catalog spec. Or your bike could have had the crank swapped by a previous owner.

I know, I'm not helping! Good luck.
bulgie is offline  
Old 11-05-19, 12:55 AM
  #7  
juvela
Senior Member
 
juvela's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 8,562
Mentioned: 245 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1773 Post(s)
Liked 105 Times in 94 Posts
-----

Williams chainset specification in 1970 catalogue -

one can often catch them using illustrations from an earlier year in their materials - perhaps under time pressure to get the publication to the printer.

subject cycle's chainset is Verot model 52:


Presently thinking 1971 for a birthdate of the cycle.

-----
juvela is offline  
Old 11-05-19, 06:16 AM
  #8  
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 24,240

Bikes: http://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 625 Post(s)
Liked 311 Times in 231 Posts
Just dropping in to say how nice it looks given that it's not on the top of the pecking order.

With no derailer hanger and those slack angles, this thing could be converted into a IGH path racer with a 1940's look - even though the base bike is from the 1960's.

-Kurt
__________________
cudak888 is offline  
Old 11-05-19, 01:41 PM
  #9  
Cibi42
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 42
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Brilliant! thanks for all these cues, I'll check when I come home. I'll let you know what I find.
The William crank catalogue looks really nice (they look very old fashion but quite cute in that) and useful, thanks.

"before riding PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE lower the stem -" Yep, the guy who had it before was a tall fellow and raised the stem far past scary level, you can even see the slot. Luckily I don't think he rode it too much...

Bulgie, the catalogue doesn't seem to load at the moment but I'll try again later (and thanks for loading all these up, it's been an invaluable resource, and a pleasure to peruse).

Kurt, it would be lovely, but as it looks like it has all OEM parts I'm feeling like they should stay there. At least for the moment ;-)
Cibi42 is offline  
Likes For Cibi42:
Old 11-05-19, 02:57 PM
  #10  
Road Fan
Senior Member
 
Road Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 14,447

Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8

Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 894 Post(s)
Liked 45 Times in 41 Posts
I would expect that Carlton to have a very nice ride quality. The chainstays are quite long, the seat tube is rather laid back, and the fork has a lot of curvature. I would certainly take it out for a bunch of familiarization rides after overhauling the bearings that need it, and not do much weight-weenying or hot-rodding before you have a sense of how the original rides.
Road Fan is offline  
Likes For Road Fan:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.