Anyone else baffled by Rivendell's photos?
#76
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What's the big deal about pushing a bike? Bicycle Quarterly recently did a big article on the Japanese passhunters, who often carried their bikes over otherwise-inaccessible mountain passes. Tons of people pushing or carrying bikes there, but nobody gets bent out of shape about it. They're just another one of the roots of mountain biking - less well-known than Gary Fisher repacking down Mt. Tam, but definitely legitimate. This is just another back-to-the-roots thing, like skiers who trade lifts and alpine gear to go skin up a mountain and do telemark turns down it, or car guys who install an unsynchro'd gearbox in an older car instead of buying the latest paddleshift dual clutch thing. It's human nature to do stuff like this.
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If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
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Because, one day, some elitist somewhere started calling everyone who did so "lazy," "weak," or "cheating," and thus started a trend of peer pressure against the idea of walking a bike up a hill.
Of course, reality was ignored, and those who live in areas without steep grades bought into the BS.
The same machismo nonsense is why some roadies deride C&V'ers who show up on lugged steel, or why in American football, some trainers still put their players' lives in jeopardy after an obvious concussion - a fear of being perceived as weak.
As we see, some folks (*cough* shelbyfv *cough*) still buy into this pile of horse manure.
-Kurt
Of course, reality was ignored, and those who live in areas without steep grades bought into the BS.
The same machismo nonsense is why some roadies deride C&V'ers who show up on lugged steel, or why in American football, some trainers still put their players' lives in jeopardy after an obvious concussion - a fear of being perceived as weak.
As we see, some folks (*cough* shelbyfv *cough*) still buy into this pile of horse manure.
-Kurt
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#81
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Because, one day, some elitist somewhere started calling everyone who did so "lazy," "weak," or "cheating," and thus started a trend of peer pressure against the idea of walking a bike up a hill.
Of course, reality was ignored, and those who live in areas without steep grades bought into the BS.
The same machismo nonsense is why some roadies deride C&V'ers who show up on lugged steel, or why in American football, some trainers still put their players' lives in jeopardy after an obvious concussion - a fear of being perceived as weak.
As we see, some folks (*cough* shelbyfv *cough*) still buy into this pile of horse manure.
-Kurt
Of course, reality was ignored, and those who live in areas without steep grades bought into the BS.
The same machismo nonsense is why some roadies deride C&V'ers who show up on lugged steel, or why in American football, some trainers still put their players' lives in jeopardy after an obvious concussion - a fear of being perceived as weak.
As we see, some folks (*cough* shelbyfv *cough*) still buy into this pile of horse manure.
-Kurt
Read any eroica thread. Count the hundreds of posts endlessly going on about gearing. Do you think a 22 up front and a 36 rear is macho? Harden the **** up is spinning at 5mph?
#82
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(...) I like what I like, you like what you like and it's perfect that way. I'm not right, I'm just me. I have bikes where I bend over, go fast and can't mount bags or racks. Love that. I have bikes where I sit up (North Roads, so comfortable) and schlep 5 bags of groceries. Love that. I don't presume the world cares what I think about Riv or Grant, I intersect with the polarizing Petersen inasmuch as I enjoy riding bikes with high-quality frames, stylish lugs and quality components that provide a performance level and an aesthetic I enjoy.
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waaait a minute...
long chain stays move the center of mass forward, not backward. The shorter the chainstays are, the more you unweight the front wheel, and have to muscle forward to prevent wheelies. That’s why hill-climb motorbike and drag bikes have extended swing arms.
I mean.... ...right?
long chain stays move the center of mass forward, not backward. The shorter the chainstays are, the more you unweight the front wheel, and have to muscle forward to prevent wheelies. That’s why hill-climb motorbike and drag bikes have extended swing arms.
I mean.... ...right?
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#84
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I get what you're saying, but that's not what I meant. The "box" I live in is Holland (or Europe, if you like), where pretty much everyone rides what Americans would call a Rivendell-style upright bike. Grant Petersen wouldn't get the time of day here. Which is exactly his point, I believe.
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#85
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Wow, some folks seem really defensive about walking up hills. To me it's just one of those things you can rag your riding buddies about and I've been on both ends of it. We have plenty of hills here and almost any organized ride will have a few walkers. I don't think I've ever heard anyone give them a negative comment. That said, learning to climb hills, even at a walking pace, is just part of riding. More about competence than machismo. If someone is walking hills regularly they might need to think about their gearing. BTW, I love steel and C&V and probably will never own a carbon bike.
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#86
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Because they duplicate the perfectly serviceable city bicycle that they destroyed in the early 1980's, only less adequately. Hybrids exist as manufacturers' responses to people who bought into the 1980s-90s MTB trend and realized that their fancy new active leisure machine was uncomfortable and slow when they used them around the neighborhood.
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The problem is when someone rags on another for choosing either option (or in the case for those who find themselves on terrain their gearing can't match, forced into pushing). Come to Miami where there aren't any hills. Watch every road cyclist talk out of his butt like the Rickenbacker Causeway made him an expert on conquering anything with a grade.
-Kurt
Last edited by cudak888; 05-23-20 at 06:10 PM.
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#88
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Just wanted to agree with this. I see so many people riding on the streets here bent over needlessly wide straight bars, struggling to make sense of all the gears they don't need and will never use, often with disk brakes even though they'll probably never go faster than 20mph. It really is idiotic. Of course all those gears and fancy brakes are going to need maintenance and the owners will have no idea how to do it, so I suppose that's more money for bike shops.
Waiting for sarah to get off work.
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So do y'all think Riv is a Lifestyle Brand, like Rapha? If so, my townie could check many boxes: 531 frame, chrome Nervex Pro lugs, 8-speed internal gears, longish wheelbase, 35c tires, fenders, North Road Bars, wide sprung Brooks saddle, cork grips, bell, lights, can be pedaled in any shoes with or without SPDs, basket, racks...and it commutes to work with my work stuff in the basket, brings home 4 grocery bags in canvas shopping panniers, gets locked up on city streets while I'm doing my errands, occasionally goes to cool paces like this just for the fun of riding this very enjoyable utility bike built for functionality, comfort and aesthetics.
Maybe I'm actually living the Lifestyle(TM), because I posted a picture of myself riding it home with groceries on Instagram 2 weekends ago and promptly received two inquiries from companies offering "collabs" with their product lines - one clothes, one men's watches.
Maybe I'm actually living the Lifestyle(TM), because I posted a picture of myself riding it home with groceries on Instagram 2 weekends ago and promptly received two inquiries from companies offering "collabs" with their product lines - one clothes, one men's watches.
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#90
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Yes. And so is Velo-Orange. And Rene Herse/Compass. And any single framebuilder out there.
Whether they're marketing like so or not, they're selling very niche, high-priced products to individuals - or groups of people - who are looking to experience cycling in an extremely specific manner.
No matter how many euphemisms or perceptions one puts upon a "lifestyle" brand, that is what a lifestyle brand does.
-Kurt
Whether they're marketing like so or not, they're selling very niche, high-priced products to individuals - or groups of people - who are looking to experience cycling in an extremely specific manner.
No matter how many euphemisms or perceptions one puts upon a "lifestyle" brand, that is what a lifestyle brand does.
-Kurt
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#92
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Yes. And so is Velo-Orange. And Rene Herse/Compass. And any single framebuilder out there.
Whether they're marketing like so or not, they're selling very niche, high-priced products to individuals - or groups of people - who are looking to experience cycling in an extremely specific manner.
No matter how many euphemisms or perceptions one puts upon a "lifestyle" brand, that is what a lifestyle brand does.
-Kurt
Whether they're marketing like so or not, they're selling very niche, high-priced products to individuals - or groups of people - who are looking to experience cycling in an extremely specific manner.
No matter how many euphemisms or perceptions one puts upon a "lifestyle" brand, that is what a lifestyle brand does.
-Kurt
Any good frame builder or bicycle company does not by any means cater to the same sort of people who are out seeking to support and show off the vision of a "lifestyle brand," such as we see with Rivendell.
#93
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'Eh, that's not quite how most people would explain what a lifestyle brand is about. Advertising and brand image are important parts of the equation, and typically people who are attracted to brands for their philosophy as well as products are doing so consistently, hence creating a "lifestyle" around those brands.
Any good frame builder or bicycle company does not by any means cater to the same sort of people who are out seeking to support and show off the vision of a "lifestyle brand," such as we see with Rivendell.
Any good frame builder or bicycle company does not by any means cater to the same sort of people who are out seeking to support and show off the vision of a "lifestyle brand," such as we see with Rivendell.
Grant's just got the OP and others pissed off because he's gone more mainstream.
-Kurt
#94
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There's nothing wrong with gearing that makes it possible to climb up one of these hills, nor does one have to apologize for pushing their rig up either.
The problem is when someone rags on another for choosing either option. Come to Miami where there aren't any hills. Watch every road cyclist talk out of his butt like he knows everything.
-Kurt
The problem is when someone rags on another for choosing either option. Come to Miami where there aren't any hills. Watch every road cyclist talk out of his butt like he knows everything.
-Kurt
*except that one old lady who rode by me asking "are you ok dear?" but she was really just concerned not ragging on me.
#95
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I'd maintain the other points, though. Super-reclined fits are cumbersome for steep climbing, and a forward posture on a bike with super-long chainstays poses rear traction issues.
The hill-climb motorcycles you're referencing do use the huge rear-center to keep the weight forward. Although obviously the particular geometry isn't a good analogy to any style of bicycle; they're targeted at astronomically steeper hills than it's feasible to ride a bicycle up (which puts the bike at an angle that would otherwise put the rider's weight extremely rearward to the degree that they'd basically flip over backwards), and they're also not constrained to pedalable postures.
And Q-factor is the width between peddles, it’s affected by chain stays being placed further apart, but not by how long they are. In fact a longer chain stay let’s you put the wide tire further away from the BB, and can improve the Q factor making it narrower.
Last edited by HTupolev; 05-23-20 at 05:45 PM.
#96
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I never understood that one.
Maybe a double downtube on larger frames.
Maybe a double downtube on larger frames.
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-Gregory
Last edited by Kilroy1988; 05-24-20 at 11:07 AM.
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We are all wannabe Grant Petersons.
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I'd argue that he's not gone more mainstream. We've all been in mainstream bike shops lately and you don't see what he's offering, at least not $3k hybrids. An that's okay, as this is a discussion forum, I was just adding my observations of Riv which nearly a hundred posters have loosely acknowledged.
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Kurt, as the OP I can assure you I'm not pissed off, nor was this a troll. I genuinely can't understand the oddity of what they transformed into. Maybe I miss their original vintage aesthetic, which I see as slowing dying everywhere and less available to purchase without going custom/ hand built. Guess that's part of being a retrogrouch.
I'd argue that he's not gone more mainstream. We've all been in mainstream bike shops lately and you don't see what he's offering, at least not $3k hybrids. An that's okay, as this is a discussion forum, I was just adding my observations of Riv which nearly a hundred posters have loosely acknowledged.
I'd argue that he's not gone more mainstream. We've all been in mainstream bike shops lately and you don't see what he's offering, at least not $3k hybrids. An that's okay, as this is a discussion forum, I was just adding my observations of Riv which nearly a hundred posters have loosely acknowledged.
-Kurt