Lenkearney

Don't know if this is the right place to ask this- or even how to ask. Has to do with pedaling...

When I have to get out of the saddle it feels like I burn my legs up. I have been taking a spinning class to try to build leg strength and stamina. I am getting better at getting out of the saddle, usually doing 50-60 rpm (in the spin class).

There are people in the class who can do 80-90 rpm out of the saddle- I cant get close to that. I have tried lowering and raising resistance - but I top out at 60 rpm. I am struggling to figure out how to increase my standing rpm, any suggestions?

Note- I am a heavy weight (205) , don't know if that is relevant.

Leb

Hondo Gravel

I always sit even when climbing. I will stand on the pedals to stretch while coasting. I guess it depends on riding style.

ThermionicScott 

~60 rpm feels best to me out of the saddle, too. I've tried 80+ out of the saddle in spin class, and it just feels too weird.

DrIsotope

I too pedal out of the saddle at ~60rpm. For me, that's just a comfortable cadence. Just because Tour pros do 90-100rpm out of the saddle for extended periods doesn't mean I need to.

canklecat

If you haven't already, try adding some squats and lunges to your workout. I've been doing that for a few months and it's helped overall leg strength without needing to fully extend my legs on the bike.

While standing on the pedals, I don't see much need for a cadence above around 60 rpm unless I'm sprinting. The only time I push faster when standing is sprinting across intersections, short steep hills, or for interval workouts, and even then usually for only about 10 seconds. At 60 years old that's about as much as I can do before my legs are quivering and I'm on the verge of compromising my balance -- not gonna risk that in traffic.

Right now I'm more focused on trying to stand longer at slower cadence. I'd like to manage a few minutes at a time at slower cadence but that's turned out to be a tougher challenge. It's easier on my hybrid with more upright bars and stance since more of my weight is over the pedals.

Can't say that standing to pedal has helped overall with my climbing. It just adds wind resistance unless there's a tailwind. I mostly do it to work different muscles and give the cramping muscles a brief break.

bruce19

I've tried spinning up while standing and find that it requires either different muscles or using them in a different way. I also find that I am using my arms more to suspend my body. I don't like the feeling. So, I'll spin at 50-60 rpm and stand for short bursts.

dcwldct

Is there a particular reason you want to stand more? You're almost always more efficient staying in the saddle and downshifting if you can't spin your current gear. Staying seated also allows you to "scrape the gum off your shoe" better and use the bottom end and upstroke of each pedal stroke to more effect. If you stand, you're generating high power, but it's intermittent as it's concentrated almost entirely on the down stroke.

u235

I stand on two conditions.
On consistent grades maybe 5-10% to maintain and switch it up and those are 55-60 rpm. For me to get any value or comfort of standing I have to actually be putting down a consistent large amount of power, effort, and torque. I can't stand at higher rpm just to do it if there is no resistance, it just feels awkward. I burn myself out and I am flapping around for no benefit.
The other time I stand is "sprinting" like crossing a road with traffic, leaving a red light etc.. If I spin out or stop accelerating during that short sprint, I am back to the flapping. I can do 90+ standing applying a lot of power but this is nothing more than burning energy and resources at a sprinting rate and my limit is my heart rate and breathing. I personally do not sprint often in the normal course of bike riding so I am not efficient at it either.

Back to the original question... Practice the same things people practice for sprinting and you will benefit.

rm -rf

When climbing:
I usually shift twice to a harder gear before standing, to lower my cadence when I stand up. I can only do the original gear for maybe 10 seconds before maxing out.

I suppose it's because it's not easy to limit the effort on each pedal stroke, and these hard efforts with a high cadence are just too much. Even more relevant: the original cadence along with standing up will boost the climbing speed, requiring proportionally more power. And I don't have any more power to contribute if I had to stand up due to the steep grade.

gregf83 

I think to climb while standing, particularly if you're heavy, requires you to keep you center of gravity as steady as possible. This means extending your legs rather than standing up and riding the pedal down with a stiff leg. I'm sure I'm explaining this poorly but the essential point is that your efficiency will go down if you're bouncing up and down. Also, the tendency most people have when standing is to put our more power which tires them out faster. Try backing off the pace a little.

I commute with a backpack which encourages me to keep my upper body steady so the pack is not bouncing all over the place.

ThermionicScott 

Just because sitting and spinning is more efficient, doesn't mean you should do it 100% of the time.

bobwysiwyg

One reason is glute preservation.

https://www.bicycling.com/training/d...g-build-glutes

caloso

Sprinting, even if only for a traffic light? Muscling over a short roller? Stretching your back? Changing things up on a long hill?

There are plenty of reasons to stand and mash even if it's not as metabolically efficient as sitting and spinning.

redlude97

I'm a heavier rider at 170-180lbs so standing is less efficient but I still use it quite a bit to mix up the muscle groups. I used to be like you where the second I stood up the legs started burning and the HR spiked. I trained myself a few years ago by standing for ~5 mins on flat terrain by picking the appropriate gearing to be around 60-70rpm and backing off the effort to keep power the same as seated. Also in a spin class the flywheel changes your spinning mechanics unless you ride fixed gear on the road, I don't find it translates well at all

wolfchild

I ride fixed gear so I have no choice but to stand up a lot, if I stayed in the saddle and didn't stand up I would never be able to climb hills or accelerate fast from the stop.

Carbonfiberboy 

Your RPM is fine. The best way to accustom your legs to standing is . . . stand more and for longer on training rides. A convenient way to do it is to stand on the flat until you just can't anymore. Sit for maybe 1/2 hour and do it again, etc. Getting the RPM and effort just right so that your foot naturally ticks over at the top is the thing. It helps me to rock the bike slightly and to concentrate on keeping the upstroke knee close to the top tube. One of the tricks is the timing of the rock. A resting stand will rock the bike away from the downstroke pedal just before the downstroke. A power or sprinting stand will rock the bike away during the downstroke. Experiment. IMO a spin bike teaches pretty much nothing about standing on the road with a freewheel bike. In fact it creates bad habits.

I read a fellow who had an operation which kept him from sitting on his saddle. He removed the saddle and seatpost and just stood, gradually increasing his ride length. After a couple months he could go on 50+ mile group rides.

There's a local 500' gain hill we frequently climb. When I can do the whole thing out of the saddle, I know I'm in top condition.

Lenkearney

wow- wasnt expecting this many responses, I appreciate you guys taking the time to answer. I also feel reassured I am not alone, as well as having several suggestions to work on - Much appreciated!! .

12strings

I'm going to disagree a bit with some, in that I think everyone who is seeking to improve at cycling should work on their weaknesses...for many, that is standing at a 80-90rpm cadence. Simply practice it, and you will improve, and it will help your core stability. (lack of core stability is what makes it feel weird to stand at 90rpm, but if you can do it, you can get in and out of the saddle on climbs without a huge cadence shift... Still some, but less.

I think you should keep trying at it...not because you will be doing it all the time, but because it widens your arsenal and strengthens your all-around cycling.

OldTryGuy

Standing at 80-90rpm ??? Way too fast for me for any distance. My SW FL flatland hill training into the wind pedaling is 40-60rpm in 53/12 for 1 to 3 mile uninterrupted distances.

BikeCalc.com - Cadence at all Speeds for any Gear and Wheel

12strings

I don't do it for a mile, but practice it for 30-60 seconds...track sprinters will do well above that out of the saddle.

SJM205

I've returned to cycling this Spring to rebuild my body after cancer. It's working great and is a true motivator, but I also faced a standing dilemma. I just could not stand in the pedals. Climbing even small rises in the granny gear were tough in the saddle. I've managed the stand through a few intersections on the last ride, and will practice on the flats, before needing to on the hills. Maybe it was just a mental block, or a balance thing?
Next up, having a drink while moving.

OldTryGuy

SMJ205, just another cancer surviving individual here. Matter of fact, after having my Gleason 10 Prostate Cancer treated in 2015, I have another biopsy next Monday because indications are that it is likely back.

My suggestion is to eat really healthy and get on your bike(s) as much as possible. While actually doing both for MANY YEARS prior to diagnosis sure didn't prevent my cancer or maybe prolong my life, they at least have allowed me to FEEL GOOD ABOUT MYSELF and that for me is Job #1.

Our move down to Flatland SW FL put a crimp on my hill climbing rides and having not addressed the physical aspects of climbing for years was very evident when I tried to do some long standing pedaling. About 20 yards and I was ready to take to the saddle. TIME and EFFORT changed all of the issues that arose from not climbing to my current status of being able to go to Ga., ride the Six Gap Century 103 miles with 11,000' of climbing and be ready for more when finished. Take things slow, stay focused and enjoy your quest for hill top dominance.

canklecat

Two very different types of cycling.

Check out videos of top climbers in mountain stages. They rarely exceed 60 rpm. The goal is to relieve some muscles and work others, gain a small edge in acceleration and play mental games with opponents. On a climb it doesn't take much to accomplish these things.

Unless there's a tailwind or neutral wind, there isn't much point in standing to climb for long. With headwinds it just presents more frontal surface to slow us down. I only stand for a few seconds to get my feet spinning again, then sit and if necessary downshift to maintain my comfortable cadence. I naturally do 90 rpm like clockwork when seated, but that cadence is exhausting when standing to pedal.

Sprinting out of the saddle is faster RPMs for short distances/times, usually 10-30 seconds, tops.

I practice both because hills are my nemesis. We have lots of undulating routes, very few that are flat, with the usual mix of 1%-3% grades with short, steep bits of 6%-11% or so. That's where I always get dropped on fast group rides. So that's what I've been practicing more.

For me, the trick to shifting comfortably between sitting and standing to pedal was to approach it methodically. When I set out to ride, the primary goal that day or session was the transition between sitting and standing to pedal, back and forth on familiar routes, always sitting again the moment my legs felt even slightly tired. Over time I gained confidence and strength. After about 30 minutes of that exercise (with 15-30 minutes of warmup first), I'd finish with whatever ride I felt like doing that day.

But after watching many videos of pros, it was apparent there's no single or best way to do it. Sometimes they'd stand to pedal for fairly long distances, especially on climbs. Sometimes they'd stand to pedal only briefly to accelerate. Sometimes they'd switch back and forth constantly for a few strokes. I noticed that while Marco Pantani was revered as a strong climber, to me he didn't appear to be as strong as Alberto Contador who came a little later. In similar situations on highly contested climbs between only two or three competitors, Pantani was a wheelsucker who'd alternate frequently between sitting to pedal and occasionally standing for a few strokes, but he'd hang onto an opponent's wheel until the last possible moment. Contador could stand to pedal for ridiculously long distances and preferred to demoralize opponents by pulling ahead of them, making the climb seem effortless. But Contador was relaxed, rarely approaching anything like 80-90 rpm for those standing climbs. Same with Lance Armstrong, although his style was more muscular and assertive, but not at a sprinter's cadence.

The trick is to find the gearing and cadence that suits us for the conditions.

OldTryGuy

Another skill to learn when standing is the smooth shifting of gears to maintain the fluid application of energy. This has been made easier with brifters.

canklecat

Yup, but almost impossible to do safely with downtube shifters. In watching many older racing videos I've never seen a cyclist reach down to shift while standing on the pedals. They sat if only briefly to pedal a few strokes while shifting, then stood again if necessary. They're often so smooth and quick it's easy to overlook the shifting. But they also tended to shift less often and mash more at lower cadences.

Totally different approach with old school downtube shifters. Especially in the era of 5-7 speed freewheels/cassettes. Fewer options, more compromises. You could choose a bigger range of gears with awkward jumps between gears, or tighter spaced gears with nothing really suitable for climbing unless you're a superman. I tried my '89 Ironman for awhile with the stock 52/42 chain ring and 13-24 freewheel. Some climbs were horrible with that combo. I replaced the 42T ring with a 39. Much more civilized.

Brifters enabled a much smoother transition for sitting/standing while shifting. If I ever get serious about group rides I'll need to consider a newer road bike or upgrading my older bike to brifters. In watching other cyclists in my age and fitness range on fairly fast group rides, it's the smoother shifting on climbs that open gaps that I eventually can't close. I'm sitting to shift, standing again to catch up, then conserving energy for the next flat or downhill so I can sprint like mad to close the gap and get back into the draft. After 10-20 miles of that I'm cooked.