Jimbo1983

Hi I hope it's ok to post this. My sister has picked up and is storing for me an old tandem. I only have one photo of it, and she's not in a position to take anymore currently, and I can't go pick it up yet. So I am trying to do some detective work to learn more about it while I wait.
I have had very little luck finding tandems online with the Mixte stiffener. The only information I have on the bike itself is that it was brought over from England some time ago, so possibly an English or Euro-built frame.
Also the way the top tube is stepped rather than sloping from the captain to the stoker must be a good identifier to someone who knows what they're looking at. I'm just aiming to have a little more knowledge on what I've gotten myself into project-wise (first tandem).



Thanks, apologies if this isn't the place.

MikeAndJean

I bought a 70s vintage Pogliaghi tandem frame on eBay for use as a beater. Except for the step on the top tube, it looks almost the same as your bike. That trick for compensating for the different seat tube heights was common with European frame builders in the 70s. We once rode a Bob Jackson that had a step on the top tube.

Jimbo1983

Oh thanks, that's a good place to start. They do look quite similar although I haven't seen any with the mixte stiffener yet.

MikeAndJean

This is the Pogliaghi I mentioned in my earlier message. Like your frame, the split diagonals on my frame don't run from the joints, as they should to be most effective. However, the attachments at the head tubes are very different. Also, my frame has more brazed-on cable stops.

Jimbo1983

Thanks for the photo, you're right that is quite similar. I'm hoping my sister will be able to go take some photos for me this weekend to help with the clues.
I was looking at some other european builders and Gitane looked like they used Mixte tubes, but they seemed to do two pairs rather than one long run.

Markeologist

That style of frame bracing on a tandem is referred to as twin laterals. Looks very English to me, also a repaint? Here is a Bob Jackson off the inter web.

[img]blob:https://www.bikeforums.net/f8ee62be-21ef-4dae-aa11-e1fc5ef03f8e[/img]

Jimbo1983

Another good suggestion, I found some good pictures of bob jacksons very similar. I am waiting to hear back from my sister.

MikeAndJean

Our Bob Jackson had that step but the split diagonals ran from the top of the head tube to the rear dropout rather than from the middle of the head tube to part way up the chain stays.



This photo was taken a long time ago (May of 1976) in Tuscany.

Jimbo1983

That is a great photo, I love seeing history like that.

Sister is hopefully going to get some photos this week.

Markeologist

A quick Google of Bob Jackson tandems and you will find images of tandems with a single set of twin laterals like your old one as well as two sets of twin laterals like the frame in question.

MikeAndJean

Really? All of the frames I could find had two sets of split diagonals (like our old Ritchey frames) but the diagonals seem to always run from lug to dropout rather than from mid tube.

Markeologist

My apologies....as my reply indicates, I thought you were referring to the single set of long twin laterals like your early B. Jackson running from head tube to rear dropouts as opposed to two sets of twin laterals (like our Ritcheys), one from head tube to rear bottom bracket, the other from captains seatpost to rear dropouts....I'm following you now, again, my apologies. Interestingly, none of the frames you posted have the single pair of twin laterals running from head tube to rear dropouts like your B. Jackson (the general line followed by what would be called a "Marathon" frame if it were one large tube as opposed to twin smaller tubes). As you know Pogs have very distinctive lugs at head tube, in particular the center lug that adjoins the twin laterals to the head tube. This mystery bike doesn't appear to have that distinctive wrap around lug seen on Pogs...I'm still leaning towards English.

MikeAndJean

Until I followed your sensible suggestion and searched for "Bob Jackson tandems" I had not realized how unusual our old tandem was with its single set of diagonals. It was much stiffer than the older Gitane it replaced. That Gitane would flex a lot when we stood. We called it our "articulating frame." The Bob Jackson was a big improvement but only lasted a few years until the forks broke at the dropout (I mean actually broke). An extra set of diagonals would have made that bike stiffer but it would have done nothing for those inadequate fork blades.

My bet is that the mystery bike is French. Gitane, Peugot and Follis all made tandems, with a variety of configurations, back in the 70s and 80s. My guess is that the mystery bike is a repainted tandem from one of those manufacturers. That rear derailleur looks like an old Huret long-arm derailleur from that era.

Markeologist

Its that step down that makes it look English to me...don't recall seeing that on French tandems...I did a quick Google of Gitane, Peugeot and Follis tandems followed up by Le Juene and Motobecane, and I didn't see a step down on any of them. Mystery frame doesn't look too recent though it has braze ons...check of threads could confirm if it is French....it will probably end up being Japanese!

Many years ago I rode a lovely Gitane tandem, not an intro model but higher end with 531 tubing, double mens with one set of twin laterals running from head tube to rear hub. I have a weak spot for French bikes and tried to buy it but guy wouldn't even consider it (I wouldn't have either).

Jimbo1983

Your suggestions are all great and it's been fun trying to sleuth through the image search results. I found another one to look at, Orbit. They made/make tandems and some pictures of some of their older ones look very similar, even where the split brace joins on above the rear dropout. It should be easy for my sister to confirm, they all seem to have orbit stamped into the seat stay caps. I'm having trouble uploading and sharing images for some reason right now.

Jimbo1983

I received a few more pictures. Nothing on the seat-stay caps, head badge is missing so still hard to identify. Cranks look like stronglight, stem and bars ambrosio, some shimano stuff on there, it's got all sorts of bits

MikeAndJean

You're going to need a new chain. What fun.

Jimbo1983

Yep there's going to be a lot to do, but I am looking forward to it Hopefully nothing is too rusted or seized to come apart for cleaning/polishing.

MikeAndJean

I have resurrected bikes in far worse condition than yours. The expensive tandem-specific parts (i.e., the crankset and the frame itself) look to be intact. Everything else is easy to replace. Used but usable bike parts from the 70s and 80s are cheap and easy to come by. The result will be what I call a "Frankencycle" because it will have been resurrected from the parts of old discarded bikes. The Pogliaghi I showed in earlier postings is an example. After buying the frame on eBay for $350, I assembled the rest of the bike from old parts and a few cheap purchases (the careful eye will note the mismatched crankset). However, I would not recommend trying to make your tandem into a modern bike by adding index shifters, disk brakes, and all of the other improvements you will want some day. That can get very expensive. Put this bike together quickly and decide if you and your partner like tandem riding. The investment required for a modern tandem is easier to accept once you understand how much fun you will have riding together.

Markeologist

Unique lugs at head tube, can't place but looks like a Nervex fork crown...Stronglight cranks...maybe French (Mike you had suggested French)??? Not a Follis; however, as they have dual plate crowns (like Ritchey came to build on early Mtn Bikes)....not Gitane, nor do I think Motobecane. Before you start buying parts, check your threads!

Jimbo1983

Thanks both of you for the helpful replies. My plans are to pretty much take it all apart, clean/grease everything, and only replace what's necessary. So I'll keep the bar-end shifters etc. I hope the wheels are ok, spokes look a little corroded but hard to tell without a close inspection. I don't know if they are 27 inch or 700 either. New saddles, bar tap, cables and housing, chains etc. Hopefully chainrings are ok as I imagine old stronglight ones could be hard to find.
Good call on checking the threads, I'm hoping the BB's will come out ok and be fine with a clean and re-grease.

I'm still combing the internet looking at tandem headtubes trying to find one with rivet holes the same distance apart as the ones in the photo.

Jimbo1983

Well it's been ages but I finally got it home and started the tear-down. Most of the parts will be a bit of a red herring with regards to ID I think, as there is a bit of everything;
Stronglight cranksets and bb, English threaded.
Miche pedals
Ambrosio bars and stems
Shimano front derailleur
Suntour rear derailleur
Seatposts are Strong, 26.4mm
Brakes Shimano STX cantis, with Weinmann levers
Suntour shifters.

The wheels are going to be a problem I think, one has a 27inch rim and the other is a 700c. Replacing them I think would be expensive and from what I have seen online you can't just chuck a normal road wheel on. They look like they have a lot of surface corrosion and I worry they won't take our weight, plus the mismatched size is a bit annoying.

Anyway, I have removed everything from the frame. Going to get threads chased, and a new headset as the old one literally fell out. Almost like the wrong size was fitted. I checked with a spare one I have and it would have to be pressed in so I don't know what happened there.
Here are some photos of the lugs etc on the frame. Looks like there is routing for a rear drum brake too although I forgot to get a photo. No serial that I can find. Should be a fun project, and I still plan on the goal of getting it going cheaply to see if we like it, and if we do spending a bit more on it, if not selling it.