ricebowl

TheHen

Well, I guess there are varying perspectives on these folks. I'm not in favor of ANYONE breaking our laws. That said, I have never actually seen a motorist who can travel even one-half mile without breaking the law. The consequences of those scofflaw habits that nearly all motorists have is that the probability of an American suffering and injury at their hands is better than 50% over an average lifetime. So, this group of cyclists has a number of folks breaking the law; that makes them bad, but not as bad as the motorists because their potential to harm someone is not as great.

Perhaps those of you who think all would be well in motorist/cyclist interactions if only the cyclists wouldn't break the law should consider that most motorists: 1.) hate cyclists whether or not they are riding lawfully, and 2.) don't know the law in the first place. (Come on, how many of you have been harassed for legally taking the lane? How many have been buzzed? Right hooked? Left cross or door prize anyone? Passed around a blind corner? Brake check? If you haven't had these experiences, just wait. Your number will come up.

These rolling parties may not be helping matters much, but these are the same people who would have been cruising "the strip" when I was young. I think their current incarnation is a big improvement. It's not the end of the world for motorists to wait for a few bikes. I wait for motorists all the time without getting my knickers twisted.

milliron

cry me a river

'nother

I don't think anyone's asking for or expecting absolute perfection, from either cyclists or motorists. Everyone makes mistakes from time to time. There are scofflaws, both cyclists and motorists. That's all expected and to be tolerated as part of using the roads. We all get that from time to time, and while these minor transgressions can be irritating at the time, I don't get my knickers twisted over it in the large scope of things.


This group is well beyond such minor and infrequent infractions. It's not just motorists having to wait for a few (actually: a few hundred) bikes. It's motorists, residents, pedestrians, and other innocent bystanders having their neighborhoods and streets invaded by an unwelcome and unruly mob using illegal drugs, riding under the influence of a lot of alcohol, obscene language, and engaging in dangerous behaviors (to themselves and others). Apples and oranges to the interactions of one's daily commute.


There's no need for crying here. I'm certainly not; nor do I think the sky is falling. But you may want to think about how this group's behaviors actually end up affecting you as a cyclist whether you're a commuter or perhaps member of a large local bicycle racing club's Cat 4 squad, and whether you truly support this kind of behavior.

hooligancyclist

@'nother
I don't think about how their actions on a bicycle ride affect my life. I once did, then figured out I'd rather not think about it. I don't care what they are doing over there, even if it is as bad as you say it is. I don't think motorists will see them and judge me to be the same and then act out their frustrations, worrying about that does not gel with me. The phrase "(group x) giving (group y) a bad name" is not in my list of things to ponder, and I do not believe in it with so much conviction.
My guess is that you'll find some way to contradict me, as that is how you've been handling this thread. I don't care about that either. I just wanted to say all this, to type it all out so I can remember my priorities. These are my opinions and only that.
Have a good day.

frantik

lol.. "a few"... hundred.

It's not about the bikes.. it's about the party.. Having a party in the middle of the street, on a bike, in a car, on foot.. it's not a good idea.

The prinicples behind bike party seem better than critical mass, but it still snarls traffic just the same. People in the bay area are pretty tolerant of bike riders and i don't think bike party is bad for biking in general.. it just sucks when you get caught in the middle of it (like i have, twice)

my friend just called me to ***** about bike party cause she's leaving work in Palo Alto

'nother

I totally respect that, your honesty, and your desire to rise above the fray. I probably *shouldn't* think about those things, but it's hard not to. Thanks for posting this.

coldehammer

I went to a San Jose Bike Party event last year just to see what all the commotion was about. All I can say is that it's about 3x as big as SF's Critical Mass and much more unruly behavior. I was even shocked to see no police ******* to at least control some of the frustration and cross traffic. At least SF Critical Mass has motorcycled cops leading the group and blocking off intersections when needed to civilize the activity.

I will never go to a San Jose Bike Party again (most of them all think they are just cool) whereas the majority of Critical Mass attendees are demonstrating the cause for bike awareness and to share the lane.

WhyFi

If you think that public perception is not affected by the highly public actions of people that claim to represent a group, you're extremely naive; there's no shortage of group stereotypes in the short attention span theater of modern life. Also, there's a nice middle ground between the extremes (indifference and worrying) that you portray - promoting awareness (of the ramifications) among your peers. If discussions like these open the eyes of people that might otherwise join in, I'd say it's worthwhile.

bigbenaugust 

Huh... and I was thinking about going, too. Maybe not so much.

alxndr

For what it's worth, the East Bay Bike Party is much better behaved -- stopping at (almost) all lights, staying in the rightmost lane or giving cars room to pass on a one-lane road (almost) all the time, lights on (almost) all the bikes. There's a bit of on-the-bike drinking but in the few I've ridden in around Oakland and Berkeley, there haven't been any problems. No police escort but we rode past a couple cops each time and they just watched with bemused looks.

danvuquoc

I'm rather split on the subject on SJBP -- I've pretty much stopped going entirely.

On one hand, I started cycling because of SJBP -- I've gone to about 8 or so events when I had time, and 15+ test rides that "feel" out the routes weeks ahead of time to figure out whats relatively safe to take a lane at night. I've met a lot of really awesome people there and tons of friends. The overwhelming majority of the people I see and meet are great people that follow rules, aren't there to cause issues, just good clean fun.

On the other hand, the Bike Party doesn't give me the workout it did when I was overweight out of shape and just starting to ride -- so I've started to stay away from it -- but I miss the highly social aspect. There are also quite a few completely unprepared riders. The ones with no helmets -- thats their choice. There are also many with absolutely no lighting and I think that's fairly dangerous. The sjbp website tries to promote lights a lot, and some small vendors even go out to rest stops along the route and sell lights. Even more cyclists are completely unprepared for any mechanical issues like a flat. And then you get to the issue of the drunk/stoned riders -- the loud and obnoxious ones. I get that they're trying to have fun too -- but I know that the small percentage of riders coming to the bike party are ruining it for many and giving the event a bad name and bad media.

For me -- personally -- the bad outweighs the good. I still go to random test rides to socialize a bit but that'll probably the extent of my participation for a long time.

webtwo

I think it's just a bunch of people on their bikes instead of in their cars or walking or crawling or whatever. Motorists are diverse too, with some obeying the rules of traffic, some playing ridiculously loud music, some yelling, some throwing trash and burning cigarette butts out of their windows (and all polluting the environment). You have to be able to accept the variety of human behavior in our society--if everyone behaved exactly the same, then life would be very boring.

When I drive I don't get upset because thousands of old folks are driving to the Post Office to buy a stamp and taking up too much space on the roads in the process.

These sorts of events make me happy that I live in California.

'nother

You may be missing the point.

I don't dispute that motorists (and pedestrians, and crawlers) can, as individuals, also engage in a variety of behaviors, some nice, some not—idiotic behavior is by no means limited to cyclists. That's not going to change, and indeed to live in modern society you simply have to put up with these things from time to time. But those are individual, isolated events. They don't organize themselves in the name of promoting driving, walking, crawling, or whatever. I'm not aware of a "San Jose Car Party" website or group which attempts to organize motorists on a specific route on a specific date at a specific time, while continually tolerating the ugly behaviors, all in the name of "auto advocacy".

Are you not able to make the distinction?



Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go to the Post Office as I am out of stamps.

murkey

really nice to see this thread, tbh. one of my reservations about getting into cycling was being associated with the groups that seem to enjoy inconveniencing others.

BSherbon

Bike party is NOT one of those groups that you mention - I have participated in many of the rides and HUGE efforts are made to minimize the impact as much as possible. If the fact that Bike Party exists is keeping you from getting into cycling then you are just looking for an excuse not to ride.

Some thoughts from someone who actively particpates in some bike party activities...
--------------------------------
IMPORTANT, I speak for myself only, I am not commenting on behalf of anyone else
--------------------------------

The title of this thread is inaccurate - Bike Party is not "anti-cycling", nor has it ever "planned" to disrupt traffic. To the contrary it is very pro-cycling and great efforts are made to minimize disruptions (this is not Critical Mass!).

1. Routes are such that any particular region of the South Bay is impacted just once, or maybe twice, in a calendar year.

2. There are volunteers spread throughought the ride who call out bad behavior, help those who need minor repairs, get folks to stop at red lights, keep cars from being 'enveloped' at intersections etc... I have volunteered for this before and it is a lot of work. Are the results perfect? Of course not. But the effort is made - this "planning to disrupt traffic' crap is nonsense.

3. Every effort is made to stay in the right lane and stop at traffic lights. During the most recent ride through Palo Alto we hit something like 7 red lights going through downtown, and yes, almost all riders stopped for each one.

Here are the rules we try to follow:
-------------------------------------------------------------------
How We Ride!
If you follow these eight rules, Bike Party will be safe and a positive place for riders, drivers, pedestrians, and the community

1. Stay in the Right Lane NEVER ride the sidewalk. NEVER ride against oncoming traffic.
2. Leave Nothing Behind
3. Stop at Red Lights.
4. Ride Straight, Ride Predictability.
5. Roll Past Conflict.
6. Leave No One Behind.
7. Ride Sober! It’s illegal and dangerous to ride a bicycle inebriated.
8. Communicate to Fellow Riders! (We need your help to remind those who aren’t following the rules!)
https://www.sjbikeparty.org/how-we-ride
-------------------------------------------------------------------

There are challanges, especially as the weather turns warmer and those not familier with "How We Ride" (or are familier but choose not to follow these rules) attach themselves to the ride - but these challanges are not ignored.

4. Not all impact is negative... Each month there is a 'theme' (last month's was formal, so many were dressed up in their spare formal clothes ). As we go through various neighorhoods with our costumes/attire, music, fancy lights etc... many many families come out to cheer and watch - it is a great to see neighors talking and young kids laughing and clapping as we pass by. Smiles good

I can personally attest to how Bike Party has encouraged many to take up riding. Also good is how many people have fun and make friends on these rides. Given...

-- how boring many perceive the South Bay nightlife and 'disconnected' from the community many feel
-- the great efforts made to minimze bike party's impact
-- the postive results described above

...I submit that the very occassional inconvience as described by the thread OP (who, remember, lives in one of the most populous urban regions in the most populated state) is not the end of the world.

BSherbon

For those who are curious, here are some pictures of the most recent ride. As you can tell, the theme was "formal"

https://tian.greens.org/SanJose/BikeP...ide/index.html

murkey

i may have been unclear. for one, i _am_ into riding and do so as much as i can. i was thinking of when i moved to san francisco and had to wait half an hour to cross a street while critical mass went by. but i don't let others' actions prevent me from enjoying something (i got lumped in with hipsters instead, yayy). anyway, my goal is to move as quickly as possible while staying safe and out of the way, so i didn't really see the point of large, loud, slow-moving group rides that block traffic (actually, everything but the blocking traffic is fine with me!). i enjoyed reading this thread because, well, sometimes it's just nice to see that other people are concerned about the same issues.

if your party advocates safety and following the rules to a reasonable degree, that's great.

east bay in the houuuuse! *googles east bay bike party* maybe i'll see you at the next one, it looks super fun!

evolve

It is interesting how many bicyclists criticize other bicyclists, for riding technique, type of bike, clothing, seriousness, etc. etc. I guess that's another topic for another day, or for the FGSS forums

I attended the said Bike Party and had a great time with about 2000 (?) other people. Met many DIVERSE riders and had awesome conversations before and during the ride.

I bike commute often, occasionally ride my road bike in full kit, and am getting into mountain riding: but the Bike Party is the most fun that I have on a bike!

Some of the previous posters are correct, many riders are VERY under prepared (NO tools, lights, air in the tires, etc.) So, being that I carry all of the above, I try to help them out, and teach them a thing or two while doing it. Most are very grateful, and see that a little preparedness will make the party more enjoyable.

MOST of the riders are very YOUNG! As in teenagers (with
teenage attitude). I am happy they are 'partying' on their bikes, rather than behind a wheel, or out causing trouble. Most are there to have fun, but (percentage wise) I see them doing the same stupid things that some teenagers do at any High School football game or any other 'youth' event.

I am glad the kids are out on a bike, and maybe in their futures they will ride on days other than the monthly bike party.

Until then, BIKE PAAARTY! Every 3rd Friday of the Month, 8pm. Join us!

bhkyte

Disruptions to traffic expected. We need to stop this sort of thing.

Yes, stop everyday car usage!!

Traffic delays expected every day are the norm.

frantik

i have personally been caught in the middle of bike party and, despite the effort, there is simply no way a group of 2000+ people having a mobile party on city streets is not going to have an impact.

The vast majority of the riders at Bike Party are in violation of vehicle code by riding their bikes at night without proper lighting... considering this is a always a night event, proper lighting should be REQUIRED for participation. But the bike party rules don't even mention anything about that.

Simply claiming that you are trying not to have an impact doesn't change the reality..

BSherbon

^^^ Everything any of us does has an impact, if that was the sole criteria for deciding what can be done than no one would every do anything (and the world would be a much more boring place!). As far as what is "required"... rides take place on PUBLIC roads, neither you nor I have the authority to require anything from anybody as a condition of using a public road (even if it is stupid to ride at night without any lights IMO)

frantik

yes obviously they can't require anything, though they should at least put it in their list of rules. the first time i found out about bike party when i was on 10th street in a dark stretch of road and all of the sudden the road was filled with bikes. i had to put on my brights to see what was going on because so few people had lights

alxndr

IIRC there's something legally hairy about requiring anything on a ride, makes whoever's doing the requiring legally responsible for injuries or something.

bjorke

SO? Ever try to drive to SF on a night when there's a ball game?

AT&T Park: 4000 parking spaces, considerable overflow
Candlestick: 8000 auto spaces, 300 buses, 200 limousines, 300 motorhomes
Coliseum: "over 10,000 spaces"

Stadium proposed just blocks from the upcoming Bike Party ride: the plans call for simply appropriating the parking and commute space of the companies nearby, such as Intel, Great America, and Rivermark shopping center.