Koyote

Um, you do realize that the charger gets left at home when riding the bike, right? And that you can own ten Di2 bikes and still only need one charger?

Sy Reene

For the same reason that your other bike also has a saddle, wheels and myriad other parts that come with a bike when sold as a complete bike?

WhyFi

You're not making a salient point, dude. That a small subset of users wouldn't benefit from the inclusion of an otherwise necessary component doesn't mean that it's no longer a necessary component.

noodle soup

Take it up with Shimano. They include one with every Di2 bike/groupset. It's not an option.

noodle soup

Can you imagine the outrage of a 1st time Di2 user, finding out that he has to buy a charger just to use his new bike?

Some people still complain that bikes are sold without pedals.

Koyote

This is a nonsensical comparison.

If I buy a second bike, it is indeed useful to for it to come with a saddle, two wheels, etc.

If I buy a second Di2 bike, I have no need for a second Di2 charger.

It's as simple as that.

Steve B.

Lets clarify this. They might include it with the bike when it has a Di2 component set. It’s a separate item to purchase when buying a stand-alone group.

Koyote

My Di2 bike was a custom build, and I did indeed pay a separate charge for the charger. I was not outraged.

Some shops (IRL and online) are now doing the same for groupsets - the charger is an option.

If I already have a charger, I have no need for a second one.

noodle soup

I've sold dozens of Di2 groupsets(purchased directly from Shimano) and they all include a charger.

a quick search of a few retailers that offer Di2 groupsets shows that they come with a charger as well.

https://www.coloradocyclist.com/shim...SABEgLhUfD_BwE

https://www.merlincycles.com/en-us/s...et-104917.html

https://www.bikebling.com/Shimano-Ul...shoppingengine

noodle soup

Nice anecdote. You win.

WhyFi

...unless it's a bike that's stored in a different location at home, or at the office, or at the second home, etc, etc.

Speaking of the pot calling the kettle black, you haven't addressed my point because you are unable to refute it.

noodle soup

His shop probably sold him the included charger(so they could get some beer money) because they figured he didn't know any better.

Koyote

I refer you to post #17 , which addresses your point and also noodle soup's points. I'm guessing that neither of you have taken the time to read it carefully, since neither of you have directly responded to it.

Some of you are arguing your opinions (every Di2 groupset/bike should include a charger), to which you are entitled -- opinions are neither provable nor disprovable. I'm not arguing with your opinions. I'm offering a logical argument. And so we are not really talking the same language.

noodle soup

I'm arguing that chargers are included with new bike/groupset purchases(FACT), and you are arguing that they shouldn't be included(your opinion).

Rides4Beer

Yes, but as an operating unit, a di2 equipped bike will not function without a charger.

My di2 bike (which hopefully will be ready today!!) is a custom build, and it's coming with a charger. Even if it weren't my first di2 bike, I would expect it to come with a charger.

Now if a shop, or online retailer wants to offer a discount for excluding the charger from a groupset, I could see that as an option, but by default it should always come with a charger.

Koyote

Then if you do choose to get the charger, you are paying for it by forgoing the discount.

So, please answer this directly: If you buy a second Di2 bike, would you prefer to pay for a second charger, or would you prefer to save the money and skip it, since you will already have a charger?

WhyFi

Incorrect. Most are arguing that new bikes *do* include chargers, not that they should. That your custom builder bilked you for a charger, for whatever reason, doesn't mean that a charger isn't standard for the vast majority of bikes being sold with Di2.

No, you're not offering a logical argument.

Sure, the cost of an included charger is factored in to the price of the bike. Sure, in theory, the price of the bike could be a little lower if it weren't include, but let's not pretend that production costs actually correlate with the a la carte price. The cost of a bike sans charger would absolutely not be $90-100 lower. The only reason that the a la carte price is that high is because Shimano know that they've got that user over a barrel. Second, you have to look at customer perception, which noodle soup has already brought up. Someone buying a high-spec bike is *not* going to be amused if they need to pay another $100 on top of the already lofty price of the bike.

As far as your Post #17 prediction... no. Let's look at cell phones, which are ubiquitous in a way that Di2 never, ever will be. Is an included charger the norm? Of course it it.

GeneO 

1. Bike can't operate without it.
2. It would probably cost you more buying it separate than bundled with the bike. There is probably no savings at all.
3. So you have a spare

Steve B.

You could likely find an equal number of vendors that allow it to be added as an option

https://www.texascyclesport.com/shim...ed-time-offer/

And as it should be.

Rides4Beer

Yes, it's part of the groupset, like any other part, of course you're paying for it. Just like if there is an option to buy a groupset without a crank, it will cost less.

I would prefer that it come with the charger, then in the event I should want to sell the bike, the charger would go with it.

I have multiple devices at home that theoretically could use the same charger, I still want each one to come with it's own charger, and they do.

Seattle Forrest

How much does it cost to buy a complete DA group? How much does it cost to buy each of those parts individually? When the charger is bundled with the group it's part of, it's a fraction of what it costs standalone at full retail. Di2 bikes do come with chargers, you might be able to work out a deal with the shop to trade it for a roll of bar tape though.

Of course there's value in having a spare. I just moved, I'm still not sure which box the charger is in. Sometimes I take my bike on trips, I'd keep a second charger in the car or a travel bag just to make sure I never go off into the boonies and wind up insane to shift.

What really pisses me off is that bikes come with saddles and seat posts. Do you know how easy it is to move those between bikes? Nobody with two bikes needs two saddles. We're all passing for something that nobody benefits from.

noodle soup

I just searched “Di2 Groupset” and these were the first 3 vendors to come up.

If you don’t want the charger included with new bike/groupset purchases, tell Shimano.

Seattle Forrest

My god, you're right! My phone, Bluetooth speaker, and lights all use the same charging cable, but they each came with one. Obviously Big Charger is strong arming Samsung, Garmin, and all the rest of them. This is terrible!

Ogsarg

The charger probably costs Shimano a few bucks. Including it all the time makes more sense than selling/stocking groupsets with and without.

bykemike 

It must be winter.

I bought this bike from a shop and I would expect it was traded without the charger. I believe the shop did me a good turn selling me a new charger and cord at 1/2 price...I'm happy, don't bust my bubble