(Vintage) pedals, toe clips, and straps?
02-13-20, 01:58 PM
#26
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I've struggled a bit with foot issues myself when using clips and straps.
Most of my lifetime miles were with campy SL quill pedals and traditional cycling shoes with cleats. I wore out a lot of pairs of shoes. Detto, Duegi, and Rivat were the main ones I remember. After some experimentation, clips were always Christophe steel, straps Binda regular. I don't like the laminated extras. I can accept Christophe straps as well. Alloy clips had a tendency to break an unfortunate times. Also BITD, I used at various points Lyotard CA45 and 23 pedals.
More recently, my PX10 was my main bike for about a year. That had Lyotard CA45 quill pedals. For clips, Christophe as always. Still made and still the best. I used VO straps, which I think are excellent. I normally do not like laminated straps but found these very comfortable, secure, and well made.
For a while I tried Chrome messenger shoes. They have a stiff shank and they improved comfort a lot in that regard, and I did quite a few 80-100 mile rides with them, but ultimately they were just too hot for the climate in CA. They're also unreasonably heavy. The PX10 is currently in stasis, and I'm still deciding myself what the next shoe will be. Pedals will be Lyotard 23.
Most of my lifetime miles were with campy SL quill pedals and traditional cycling shoes with cleats. I wore out a lot of pairs of shoes. Detto, Duegi, and Rivat were the main ones I remember. After some experimentation, clips were always Christophe steel, straps Binda regular. I don't like the laminated extras. I can accept Christophe straps as well. Alloy clips had a tendency to break an unfortunate times. Also BITD, I used at various points Lyotard CA45 and 23 pedals.
More recently, my PX10 was my main bike for about a year. That had Lyotard CA45 quill pedals. For clips, Christophe as always. Still made and still the best. I used VO straps, which I think are excellent. I normally do not like laminated straps but found these very comfortable, secure, and well made.
For a while I tried Chrome messenger shoes. They have a stiff shank and they improved comfort a lot in that regard, and I did quite a few 80-100 mile rides with them, but ultimately they were just too hot for the climate in CA. They're also unreasonably heavy. The PX10 is currently in stasis, and I'm still deciding myself what the next shoe will be. Pedals will be Lyotard 23.
Do these look enough like cycling shoes? Pretty much like what a shoe would have looked like when #23 was created. Also available in a woven top for hot weather. Quite a bit lighter than you might expect.
Personally have never found any tendency to pull out with the smooth soles. A leather pedal patch can always be glued on. Just a square of leather stuck to sole with barge cement. A regular quill pedal will indent a pair of grooves pretty quick. They will hold well enough and will release easy. Pedal patch will wear down if you walk a lot but so easy to glue another.
02-13-20, 02:43 PM
#27
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https://www.dsw.com/en/us/product/me...ctiveColor=965
Do these look enough like cycling shoes? Pretty much like what a shoe would have looked like when #23 was created. Also available in a woven top for hot weather. Quite a bit lighter than you might expect.
Personally have never found any tendency to pull out with the smooth soles. A leather pedal patch can always be glued on. Just a square of leather stuck to sole with barge cement. A regular quill pedal will indent a pair of grooves pretty quick. They will hold well enough and will release easy. Pedal patch will wear down if you walk a lot but so easy to glue another.
Do these look enough like cycling shoes? Pretty much like what a shoe would have looked like when #23 was created. Also available in a woven top for hot weather. Quite a bit lighter than you might expect.
Personally have never found any tendency to pull out with the smooth soles. A leather pedal patch can always be glued on. Just a square of leather stuck to sole with barge cement. A regular quill pedal will indent a pair of grooves pretty quick. They will hold well enough and will release easy. Pedal patch will wear down if you walk a lot but so easy to glue another.
Those posted shoes look pretty good, but I think they'd be too hot for me without getting a lot of holes punched in them. I had some traditional leather shoes, also Italian made, and they made very good cycling shoes. This was when I used to live in SF. My bike was my car then, and they got used a lot.
In the meantime I found these Prooü shoes that @non-fixie posted on another older thread about shoes (thanks!). There's some plain brown and black ones with no stripes also. They're kind of like a hybrid between the old Avocet touring shoes and a traditional lace up cycling shoe.
https://proou.com/boutique/cycling-s...exico-touring/
02-13-20, 02:59 PM
#28
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For commuting and running errands, I've got some Diadora shoes that I'm really fond of. They have rubber soles with shallow grooves to engage the pedal cage.
For riding my vintage bikes in appropriate shoes, I've got a variety of vintage Duegi and Detto shoes with plastic slotted cleats. Most were purchased when they were going out of style.
The pair shown below are an unknown brand with a leather sole and no cleats. I've got a pair of TA cleats that I've been meaning to have nailed on.
For a shoe that looks traditional but can be walked in, I have a pair of Carnac Carlits. These were in production 15 or 20 years ago...
The soles are a hard plastic, so not as nice as proper rubber soles. Still, a nice shoe!
Unfortunately, none of these are still in production. There is always a chance that you might find a pair on ebay or other such vendors of pre-owned goodies.
Steve in Peoria
For riding my vintage bikes in appropriate shoes, I've got a variety of vintage Duegi and Detto shoes with plastic slotted cleats. Most were purchased when they were going out of style.
The pair shown below are an unknown brand with a leather sole and no cleats. I've got a pair of TA cleats that I've been meaning to have nailed on.
For a shoe that looks traditional but can be walked in, I have a pair of Carnac Carlits. These were in production 15 or 20 years ago...
The soles are a hard plastic, so not as nice as proper rubber soles. Still, a nice shoe!
Unfortunately, none of these are still in production. There is always a chance that you might find a pair on ebay or other such vendors of pre-owned goodies.
Steve in Peoria
02-13-20, 04:53 PM
#29
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For those who are interested: Prooü have joined forces with Magliamo, a Belgian outfit who make replica wool jerseys.
I've met the Magliamo representative at several C&V events and asked him about it when the Prooü shoes appeared on his stand in Oudenaarde last year. Apparently Prooü had trouble keeping the business afloat with the traditional shoes. By joining Magliamo they gained better access to the C&V crowd, and together they have introduced a broader line of casual cycling shoes, which should appeal more to the "lifestyle consumer".
Like this "Prooü Celeste", which looks rather good IMO, and mrs non-fixie actually considered* buying:
* and she might have bought them, too, if she hadn't also stumbled upon HNB at the Faggin stand in Gaiole while I was talking to with their frame builder. The Faggin shoes are made by HNB. Turned out they hey had their own stand at the venue as well, and we spent some time there. Nice stuff! She likes the Urban 1, but I am trying to nudge her towards the City 1 in white:
I've met the Magliamo representative at several C&V events and asked him about it when the Prooü shoes appeared on his stand in Oudenaarde last year. Apparently Prooü had trouble keeping the business afloat with the traditional shoes. By joining Magliamo they gained better access to the C&V crowd, and together they have introduced a broader line of casual cycling shoes, which should appeal more to the "lifestyle consumer".
Like this "Prooü Celeste", which looks rather good IMO, and mrs non-fixie actually considered* buying:
* and she might have bought them, too, if she hadn't also stumbled upon HNB at the Faggin stand in Gaiole while I was talking to with their frame builder. The Faggin shoes are made by HNB. Turned out they hey had their own stand at the venue as well, and we spent some time there. Nice stuff! She likes the Urban 1, but I am trying to nudge her towards the City 1 in white:
02-13-20, 05:07 PM
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I used a set of lyotard platforms for a while, they started making a click which turned out to be the hole in the alloy end-plate wearing larger than the threaded bit of the steel housing that went though the hole. Every time the click started I would remove them and persuade the hole to close up again.
02-13-20, 05:51 PM
#31
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I have thought about that actually: both the use of ordinary traditional shoes, and gluing on an old school square leather patch. I bet that could work pretty well for Eroica. Should be reasonably easy to walk around on. I think I may have an old pair of dress shoes I could sacrifice. Hmm, then again, I'm not sure that would work with no. 23 pedals and their flat platform. Maybe. With quill pedals, should be great. My unique requirements at this point are shoes that work with campy quill pedals, and Lyotard no. 23 platforms.
Those posted shoes look pretty good, but I think they'd be too hot for me without getting a lot of holes punched in them. I had some traditional leather shoes, also Italian made, and they made very good cycling shoes. This was when I used to live in SF. My bike was my car then, and they got used a lot.
In the meantime I found these Prooü shoes that @non-fixie posted on another older thread about shoes (thanks!). There's some plain brown and black ones with no stripes also. They're kind of like a hybrid between the old Avocet touring shoes and a traditional lace up cycling shoe.
https://proou.com/boutique/cycling-s...exico-touring/
Those posted shoes look pretty good, but I think they'd be too hot for me without getting a lot of holes punched in them. I had some traditional leather shoes, also Italian made, and they made very good cycling shoes. This was when I used to live in SF. My bike was my car then, and they got used a lot.
In the meantime I found these Prooü shoes that @non-fixie posted on another older thread about shoes (thanks!). There's some plain brown and black ones with no stripes also. They're kind of like a hybrid between the old Avocet touring shoes and a traditional lace up cycling shoe.
https://proou.com/boutique/cycling-s...exico-touring/
02-13-20, 06:00 PM
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bikemig-
Lyotard "Marcel Berthet" pedals work really well. They are especially good with cycle touring shoes having the molded in groove on the sole. They work badly with 70s deep cleat racing shoes as the cleat depth allows foot pullout. The Berthets were designed during the era of nail-on cleats and are a perfect fit for foot support and cleat depth and retention with the TA Jacques Anquetil nail-on cleats on my really old Detto Pietros. Christophe clips and matching straps (white, blue, black, red and tan) and end buttons are still available from Velo Heaven in the UK.
Lyotard "Marcel Berthet" pedals work really well. They are especially good with cycle touring shoes having the molded in groove on the sole. They work badly with 70s deep cleat racing shoes as the cleat depth allows foot pullout. The Berthets were designed during the era of nail-on cleats and are a perfect fit for foot support and cleat depth and retention with the TA Jacques Anquetil nail-on cleats on my really old Detto Pietros. Christophe clips and matching straps (white, blue, black, red and tan) and end buttons are still available from Velo Heaven in the UK.
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02-13-20, 09:42 PM
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My regular commuter setup: Lyotard "Berthet" 23 pedals, (rusty) Balilla clips, ALE straps and Avocet 30 shoes. They all work great together, but I do find the pedals feel a bit narrow when I'm wearing regular tennis shoes. I wear size 11 (45ish) shoes, and the outer edge of my non-cycling shoes do extend a bit past the pedal platforms. Not an issue with narrower, hard-soled cycling shoes.
Last edited by gaucho777; 02-14-20 at 12:49 AM.
02-13-20, 11:23 PM
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I don't know how many of us are still left, but mark me down as another cyclist who still rides with traditional pedals, clips and straps. I did give clipless a good try, but I had foot pain from three different sets of pedals. The pain went away and never came back once I switched back. I'm convinced.
I do need a bit more support at the outside edge these days as my little piggies go to sleep if the ride is over 30 miles with a non-quill pedal. However, I decided to give these a try recently as they look a bit wider at the rear:
So far, my little toes have stayed awake for an entire almost-50-mile ride, so it's lookin' good.
I've been expanding my pedal choices in these past couple years and in addition to the Suntour pair above, I've added Barelli Supremes:
Barelli B-25s:
Of course, I still rely upon the indestructible Campy Record pedals for the remainder of the stable. SL, Record, Record pista and Super Record:
Shoes are a whole 'nother story. Next post
DD
I do need a bit more support at the outside edge these days as my little piggies go to sleep if the ride is over 30 miles with a non-quill pedal. However, I decided to give these a try recently as they look a bit wider at the rear:
So far, my little toes have stayed awake for an entire almost-50-mile ride, so it's lookin' good.
I've been expanding my pedal choices in these past couple years and in addition to the Suntour pair above, I've added Barelli Supremes:
Barelli B-25s:
Of course, I still rely upon the indestructible Campy Record pedals for the remainder of the stable. SL, Record, Record pista and Super Record:
Shoes are a whole 'nother story. Next post
DD
Last edited by Drillium Dude; 02-13-20 at 11:43 PM.
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02-14-20, 12:30 AM
#35
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I don't remember the Barelli model names, but I would be wary of the ones with sealed cartridge bearings. I have heard a few reports of those snapping at the sharp transition from the larger-diameter part of the axle to the smaller part that goes through the bearing.
The "victim" of that pedal measured the diameter where it broke and it's kinda small, obviously too small for this one fella. Of course we don't know its full service life; maybe it was in a crash? Still, this is not the only one I heard of breaking. I remember at the time, I measured the diameter of a TA pedal, with a needle bearing at this end (near the crank). It had a sharp-corner transition like the Barelli, but was a much larger diameter there. Sorry I don't remember the numbers but the difference was significant, with TA something like 50% larger IIRC. Look how small the fatigue-cracked part is -- the darker, crescent moon shape. The rest snapped all at once.
Too bad, because the Barellis sure are beautiful (if you like that kinda thing!) and exotic. They were considered an "upgrade" from Campy in some quarters. Those who have gone many miles on Barellis with cartridge bearings are welcome to report their experience, but the failures I've heard about are too many for me. I'm heavy, and I've had a pedal snap on me -- in traffic -- putting me on the pavement pretty quickly. The car driver behind me was awake enough to hit the brakes or I might not be telling the story. That colors my willingness to ride that style of Barelli.
The one I snapped in traffic broke at the thread where it goes in the crank -- it was a Schwinn/Ashtabula crank on my klunker. Those have 1/2" threads, versus 9/16" on any proper enthusiast's bike (or 14 mm if French, which is close enough). So, mine broke from a different cause, but same effect: FDGB.
Barellis with the cup-and-cone bearing like a Campy are safe. The critical diameter is larger, and most importantly, the curved "cone" of the ball race is a practically perfect shape for maximizing fatigue life.
BTW Phil Wood CHP pedals are another one I won't ride, seen too many of them snapped off. Same deal, sharp transition due to a cartridge bearing. Same deal also with people reporting they rode them for decades and tens of thousands of miles, so YMM literally V. Do you feel lucky?
Oh and don't count on being able to spot the fatigue crack in time, even if you inspect closely. I bet that Barelli crack was not visible to the human eye before it snapped, nor was my Schwinn's. Advanced techniques like magnaflux or dye-penetrant might have caught it, but who does that?
Mark B in Seattle
The "victim" of that pedal measured the diameter where it broke and it's kinda small, obviously too small for this one fella. Of course we don't know its full service life; maybe it was in a crash? Still, this is not the only one I heard of breaking. I remember at the time, I measured the diameter of a TA pedal, with a needle bearing at this end (near the crank). It had a sharp-corner transition like the Barelli, but was a much larger diameter there. Sorry I don't remember the numbers but the difference was significant, with TA something like 50% larger IIRC. Look how small the fatigue-cracked part is -- the darker, crescent moon shape. The rest snapped all at once.
Too bad, because the Barellis sure are beautiful (if you like that kinda thing!) and exotic. They were considered an "upgrade" from Campy in some quarters. Those who have gone many miles on Barellis with cartridge bearings are welcome to report their experience, but the failures I've heard about are too many for me. I'm heavy, and I've had a pedal snap on me -- in traffic -- putting me on the pavement pretty quickly. The car driver behind me was awake enough to hit the brakes or I might not be telling the story. That colors my willingness to ride that style of Barelli.
The one I snapped in traffic broke at the thread where it goes in the crank -- it was a Schwinn/Ashtabula crank on my klunker. Those have 1/2" threads, versus 9/16" on any proper enthusiast's bike (or 14 mm if French, which is close enough). So, mine broke from a different cause, but same effect: FDGB.
Barellis with the cup-and-cone bearing like a Campy are safe. The critical diameter is larger, and most importantly, the curved "cone" of the ball race is a practically perfect shape for maximizing fatigue life.
BTW Phil Wood CHP pedals are another one I won't ride, seen too many of them snapped off. Same deal, sharp transition due to a cartridge bearing. Same deal also with people reporting they rode them for decades and tens of thousands of miles, so YMM literally V. Do you feel lucky?
Oh and don't count on being able to spot the fatigue crack in time, even if you inspect closely. I bet that Barelli crack was not visible to the human eye before it snapped, nor was my Schwinn's. Advanced techniques like magnaflux or dye-penetrant might have caught it, but who does that?
Mark B in Seattle
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02-14-20, 11:45 AM
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Dang, Drillium Dude , just the pedals along with the fragments of chainstays and crank arms in your pix qualifies as bike porn in my book. Even the patina on the Casati.
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02-14-20, 12:19 PM
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I had heard stories about some Barellis snapping axles, but nothing specific - nor any photographic evidence - until your post bulgie . How common was this failure, anyway? Was there ever a recall? Maybe a bad batch of axles? It's too bad because they're beautifully made and spin smooth as butter!
AFAIK, both pairs I currently have run sealed bearings, so they probably have the same pedal spindle. One pair was NOS and the other had so little wear I would call them new, too. I will continue to use the one pair mounted on the Colnago because (1) the bike sees light use today and (2) I recently mounted my sitting-in-a-box-forever Campy alloy freewheel - which I will use exclusively for flat ground. Not planning to put this drivetrain through any crazy climbing stresses.
I had not heard the Phil CHPs had a similar problem. I admit to having considered finding a pair of those; in recent years I've been going back to my roots and riding for 20+ miles in street clothes/shoes. That's why I got the Barelli platforms, and was thinking maybe a pair of Phils, too. Might have to reconsider.
DD
AFAIK, both pairs I currently have run sealed bearings, so they probably have the same pedal spindle. One pair was NOS and the other had so little wear I would call them new, too. I will continue to use the one pair mounted on the Colnago because (1) the bike sees light use today and (2) I recently mounted my sitting-in-a-box-forever Campy alloy freewheel - which I will use exclusively for flat ground. Not planning to put this drivetrain through any crazy climbing stresses.
I had not heard the Phil CHPs had a similar problem. I admit to having considered finding a pair of those; in recent years I've been going back to my roots and riding for 20+ miles in street clothes/shoes. That's why I got the Barelli platforms, and was thinking maybe a pair of Phils, too. Might have to reconsider.
DD
02-14-20, 01:54 PM
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Another vote for XP-11's. I was looking for a pair of pedals to replace the plastic craptastic pedals the PO had on my 520, they didn't even have mounting holes for clips! I was checking the Ebay and I found a pair of SP-11 for under than 20 bucks!
They're a little beat up, but so am I 👍
They're a little beat up, but so am I 👍
02-14-20, 02:37 PM
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BTW Phil Wood CHP pedals are another one I won't ride, seen too many of them snapped off. Same deal, sharp transition due to a cartridge bearing. Same deal also with people reporting they rode them for decades and tens of thousands of miles, so YMM literally V. Do you feel lucky?
02-14-20, 02:44 PM
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I don't know how many of us are still left, but mark me down as another cyclist who still rides with traditional pedals, clips and straps. I did give clipless a good try, but I had foot pain from three different sets of pedals. The pain went away and never came back once I switched back. I'm convinced.
I do need a bit more support at the outside edge these days as my little piggies go to sleep if the ride is over 30 miles with a non-quill pedal. However, I decided to give these a try recently as they look a bit wider at the rear:
So far, my little toes have stayed awake for an entire almost-50-mile ride, so it's lookin' good.
I've been expanding my pedal choices in these past couple years and in addition to the Suntour pair above, I've added Barelli Supremes:
snip . . .
Shoes are a whole 'nother story. Next post
DD
I do need a bit more support at the outside edge these days as my little piggies go to sleep if the ride is over 30 miles with a non-quill pedal. However, I decided to give these a try recently as they look a bit wider at the rear:
So far, my little toes have stayed awake for an entire almost-50-mile ride, so it's lookin' good.
I've been expanding my pedal choices in these past couple years and in addition to the Suntour pair above, I've added Barelli Supremes:
snip . . .
Shoes are a whole 'nother story. Next post
DD
Suntour pedals are sweet.
02-14-20, 04:35 PM
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02-14-20, 04:48 PM
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10-04-20, 11:15 PM
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10-05-20, 02:26 PM
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^^^^^ WOW!
WOW!
10-05-20, 03:34 PM
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I run Dura Ace SPD-7400’s. I bought them as new take-offs in the late 80’s for $10 when everyone was going to Look clipless. I used them with cleats for years and then went to a touring shoe without a cleat. I bought an extra set of pedals 10+ years ago but the originals just haven’t worn out. Re-grease and ride. Christophe leather straps.
Tried Specialized Sonoma shoes for a few years without cleats, but they were not stiff enough. I using Specialized Elite Touring shoes that work quite well.
John
Tried Specialized Sonoma shoes for a few years without cleats, but they were not stiff enough. I using Specialized Elite Touring shoes that work quite well.
John
