Cyclist Rear Ended at 55mph
09-07-19, 11:05 AM
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My point of the lawnchair was to illustrate speed differential between a cyclist and a motor vehicle on a high speed roadway. The bike is basically stopped as compared to a car moving at 55-70 mph. So in fact we ARE sitting in a lawn chair on the roadway, even if not riding a recumbent.
Also, a rear-view mirror is a lot more useful than a rear facing camera, although not nearly as illustrative after the fact. I doubt that car would have hit me. I would have bailed with about 2 seconds to spare. Been there, done that.
Also, a rear-view mirror is a lot more useful than a rear facing camera, although not nearly as illustrative after the fact. I doubt that car would have hit me. I would have bailed with about 2 seconds to spare. Been there, done that.
09-07-19, 11:27 AM
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My point of the lawnchair was to illustrate speed differential between a cyclist and a motor vehicle on a high speed roadway. The bike is basically stopped as compared to a car moving at 55-70 mph. So in fact we ARE sitting in a lawn chair on the roadway, even if not riding a recumbent….
… This accident was avoidable. The overtaking driver's responsibility was to not hit anything in front of them. End of Story.
The rider chose his line for his own reasons, flats, upcoming turns, whatever. The rider has a right to use the road and not get killed or maimed as a result.
The rider chose his line for his own reasons, flats, upcoming turns, whatever. The rider has a right to use the road and not get killed or maimed as a result.
Not to take sides, but the subject of position on the road is hotly debated..
In the “cycling community” there are two schools of thought about riding in traffic:As Far Right as Possible: close to the curb; or Take the Lane to be out there and visible to cars. Bike lanes encourage the former behavior, likely more tolerated by motorists.
Bike lanes are not that wide, but then cyclist is in the “door zone” in danger of opening doors from parked cars.
Bike lanes are not that wide, but then cyclist is in the “door zone” in danger of opening doors from parked cars.
Nah, just ride on the shoulder instead of out in traffic. 
Of course it helps to monitor cars approaching from behind on roads like this, no matter where you ride. But as a motorist, I would definitely not be expecting someone to be to the left of the rumble strip on a road with this wide of a shoulder. What was the bike rider thinking?...
Of course it helps to monitor cars approaching from behind on roads like this, no matter where you ride. But as a motorist, I would definitely not be expecting someone to be to the left of the rumble strip on a road with this wide of a shoulder. What was the bike rider thinking?...
09-07-19, 12:18 PM
#78
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09-07-19, 12:27 PM
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I used to bike that same road way back when it had no shoulder. I would bike from LSU at Baton Rouge to NOLA (80 miles) on it early Sunday morning with very light traffic. Still, hillbillies would buzz me on purpose. That is all part of the program. Until you get tired of it, then you have to figure out something else.
09-07-19, 12:37 PM
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Having been hit from behind by a vehicle not so far in the distant past that video brings back some unpleasant memories for me. Luckily the car was only going about half the speed.
For those of you who think that you could have avoided such as situation if you were monitoring the rearward traffic using a mirror, I highly doubt that. I was wearing a mirror at the time that I was hit. I saw the car coming up from behind me, but like every other car that has passed me in all of my riding up to that point, I expected it to move over. Sometimes they move over early. Sometimes they move over later. But they always move...until they don't. And by the time you realize it it's too late to react. You can't swerve to the right every time a car is about to pass you either. That's no way to ride a bike. A mirror helps you in other ways, so I continue to use it.
We trust that cars are going to move over to pass us, and almost all of the time they do. If this makes you uncomfortable, then you have to find ways to avoid being in that situation in the first place.
I've changed my riding habits since then. I'll take MUPs and trails, or even sidewalks, to minimize the interactions with cars on questionable roads.
For those of you who think that you could have avoided such as situation if you were monitoring the rearward traffic using a mirror, I highly doubt that. I was wearing a mirror at the time that I was hit. I saw the car coming up from behind me, but like every other car that has passed me in all of my riding up to that point, I expected it to move over. Sometimes they move over early. Sometimes they move over later. But they always move...until they don't. And by the time you realize it it's too late to react. You can't swerve to the right every time a car is about to pass you either. That's no way to ride a bike. A mirror helps you in other ways, so I continue to use it.
We trust that cars are going to move over to pass us, and almost all of the time they do. If this makes you uncomfortable, then you have to find ways to avoid being in that situation in the first place.
I've changed my riding habits since then. I'll take MUPs and trails, or even sidewalks, to minimize the interactions with cars on questionable roads.
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09-07-19, 05:10 PM
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For those of you who think that you could have avoided such as situation if you were monitoring the rearward traffic using a mirror, I highly doubt that. I was wearing a mirror at the time that I was hit. I saw the car coming up from behind me, but like every other car that has passed me in all of my riding up to that point, I expected it to move over. Sometimes they move over early. Sometimes they move over later. But they always move...until they don't. And by the time you realize it it's too late to react. You can't swerve to the right every time a car is about to pass you either. That's no way to ride a bike. A mirror helps you in other ways, so I continue to use it.
09-07-19, 06:00 PM
#82
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I mean I don't get it really. Elon Musk's car is autonomously avoiding such crashes. This technology exists. And I assume it is not really that expensive. At least in the United States. It shouldn't be that hard to implement some kind of law to prevent cars without that technology to go into traffic. Think about the number of lives that can be saved just by this sole technology. Especially children.
09-07-19, 06:26 PM
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This is a fair point, especially in this case. The problem is the car moved from a "safe" passing line in the lane, to the shoulder edge exactly where the cyclist was at exactly the wrong time... in like 1 second. I agree this one would have been difficult to avoid. And rare. Even so, I still want to be able to see it in my mirror as it is developing so I can increase my chances of avoiding it.
Last edited by Unca_Sam; 09-07-19 at 06:55 PM.
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09-07-19, 07:59 PM
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I mean I don't get it really. Elon Musk's car is autonomously avoiding such crashes. This technology exists. And I assume it is not really that expensive. At least in the United States. It shouldn't be that hard to implement some kind of law to prevent cars without that technology to go into traffic. Think about the number of lives that can be saved just by this sole technology. Especially children.
09-07-19, 08:03 PM
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Right. Obviously the motorist was fully at fault. But so what? It's all about doing what we can to take full responsibility for our own safety and avoid being whacked.
09-07-19, 10:15 PM
#87
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I was also thinking that. But while a rumble strip will get their attention. Only a 10-ton concrete barrier. Will stop them from going completely over the rumble strip. Of course a 10-ton concrete barrier. Wouldn't be feasible on the road.
09-07-19, 10:33 PM
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Is a cyclist at the edge of the fog line really "in" the lane? As long as both cyclist and driver stay on their side of the line nothing bad will happen. Even so, I agree it would be prudent for a motorist to move left and/or slow down anyway. I know I would.
Right. Obviously the motorist was fully at fault. But so what? It's all about doing what we can to take full responsibility for our own safety and avoid being whacked.
Right. Obviously the motorist was fully at fault. But so what? It's all about doing what we can to take full responsibility for our own safety and avoid being whacked.
Defensive driving theory in a car, in this situation, advises you to make sure your back is fully supported by your seat to be ready for the impact. I know we don't have that luxury on a bike, but you have to trust that a following driver sees you and is leaving adequate space. The question here is how does one guarantee recognition and consideration from other road users?
One group says that you simply can't share this road, it's always dangerous. One group says that maximizing your visibility by being where overtaking traffic has to notice you and follow your lead makes you the safest. Neither can account for a distracted/impaired driver, though that driver is very likely to hit anything in front of them.
Last edited by Unca_Sam; 09-07-19 at 10:47 PM.
09-07-19, 11:06 PM
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Who am I kidding?! We can't afford that! Oh well, guess there's no answer to this problem.
Edit: I regret my part in shifting the discussion from your initial point. You saw that this collision with this driver was a result of inattentive driving and proposed something as a potential solution. I'd propose, in addition, that instances of distracted driving should have penalties as severe as dui/ovi. If you're as likely to cause a collision or damage property, and you are if you're distracted, it's the same as choosing to operate while impaired. It doesn't change that this driver displays no awareness of the cyclist.
Last edited by Unca_Sam; 09-07-19 at 11:25 PM.
09-08-19, 12:48 AM
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I've been thinking this for years as a defensive driver. I'm sure we've all picked up bad habits since we were gun shy student drivers. Maybe it doesn't have to involve a 10 minute test, but a random requirement to submit to temporary installation of a dashcam for a limited time span. Long enough to forget it's being recorded. Could software review the video and spit out a score so a human doesn't have to watch in real time?
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09-08-19, 12:48 AM
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perhaps if the curriculum were not a list of rules to follow but instead a list of penalties for breaking them
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09-08-19, 12:55 AM
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It is a stretch to say that that cyclist was 'in the lane'. They weren't even in the RH tire track. That driver absolutely was attempting a close pass and it went VERY badly on them (and on the cyclist!). Do you routinely drive at 55mph 4" from the fog stripe? Why are we speculating? What does the driver say? We should know.
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09-08-19, 01:02 AM
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The rumble strip isn't there to keep them from hitting cyclists riding on the gravel shoulder. It is to warn a driver that they are about to drop from the pavement at speed and possibly lose control. A buzz to the wise is sufficient. But if they choose not to heed the warning that's on them. Odds are they won't hit anything more important than a rattlesnake even if they roll over completely.
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09-08-19, 03:43 AM
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09-08-19, 03:57 AM
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...Also, a rear-view mirror is a lot more useful than a rear facing camera, although not nearly as illustrative after the fact. I doubt that car would have hit me.
I would have bailed with about 2 seconds to spare. Been there, done that.
I would have bailed with about 2 seconds to spare. Been there, done that.
Perhaps, @JoeyBike
Having been hit from behind by a vehicle not so far in the distant past that video brings back some unpleasant memories for me. Luckily the car was only going about half the speed.
For those of you who think that you could have avoided such as situation if you were monitoring the rearward traffic using a mirror, I highly doubt that. I was wearing a mirror at the time that I was hit. I saw the car coming up from behind me, but like every other car that has passed me in all of my riding up to that point, I expected it to move over.
Sometimes they move over early. Sometimes they move over later. But they always move...until they don't. And by the time you realize it it's too late to react. You can't swerve to the right every time a car is about to pass you either. That's no way to ride a bike. A mirror helps you in other ways, so I continue to use it.
We trust that cars are going to move over to pass us, and almost all of the time they do. If this makes you uncomfortable, then you have to find ways to avoid being in that situation in the first place.
I've changed my riding habits since then. I'll take MUPs and trails, or even sidewalks, to minimize the interactions with cars on questionable roads.
For those of you who think that you could have avoided such as situation if you were monitoring the rearward traffic using a mirror, I highly doubt that. I was wearing a mirror at the time that I was hit. I saw the car coming up from behind me, but like every other car that has passed me in all of my riding up to that point, I expected it to move over.
Sometimes they move over early. Sometimes they move over later. But they always move...until they don't. And by the time you realize it it's too late to react. You can't swerve to the right every time a car is about to pass you either. That's no way to ride a bike. A mirror helps you in other ways, so I continue to use it.
We trust that cars are going to move over to pass us, and almost all of the time they do. If this makes you uncomfortable, then you have to find ways to avoid being in that situation in the first place.
I've changed my riding habits since then. I'll take MUPs and trails, or even sidewalks, to minimize the interactions with cars on questionable roads.
…When I was hit from behind, it was on a wide, low-volume, well-lit residential road at about 9 PM in June, by a “distracted driver.” The route was so calm that I was not closely monitoring my rearward view. In fact, though perhaps I could have ditched the bike,
I’m glad I didn’t see it coming if I was going to get hit anyways.
I once read a comment that one should practice doing "bunny hops" so at least you could jump a curb if present on your right.
Obviously that’s the ultimate use of a mirror, and now I monitor rearwards more frequently. So hopefully being aware of the situation behind, even when not in immediate danger, allows the rider to avoid a dangerous situation, even by pulling off the road. And other than my accident, I’ve never had the need to bail out.
I’m glad I didn’t see it coming if I was going to get hit anyways.
I once read a comment that one should practice doing "bunny hops" so at least you could jump a curb if present on your right.
Obviously that’s the ultimate use of a mirror, and now I monitor rearwards more frequently. So hopefully being aware of the situation behind, even when not in immediate danger, allows the rider to avoid a dangerous situation, even by pulling off the road. And other than my accident, I’ve never had the need to bail out.
Thanks to @JW Fas for posting this video. I have posted about learning safety either by experience or vicariously, and this is the best training video I have seen about “bailing out.”…
I’m an ardent mirror advocate. Many naysayers disparage the use of the mirror for the rare event as depicted above, just to avoid a rear end collision. IMO a mirror is more frequently used, and more valuable to monitor and anticipate road hazards:
So as a bailout training video, I have to consider how I would react to a quickly upcomimg car, and make the decision to bail, especially with an inhospitable shoulder.
I’m an ardent mirror advocate. Many naysayers disparage the use of the mirror for the rare event as depicted above, just to avoid a rear end collision. IMO a mirror is more frequently used, and more valuable to monitor and anticipate road hazards:
So as a bailout training video, I have to consider how I would react to a quickly upcomimg car, and make the decision to bail, especially with an inhospitable shoulder.
Last edited by Jim from Boston; 09-08-19 at 05:29 AM.
09-08-19, 05:42 AM
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This is a fair point, especially in this case. The problem is the car moved from a "safe" passing line in the lane, to the shoulder edge exactly where the cyclist was at exactly the wrong time... in like 1 second. I agree this one would have been difficult to avoid. And rare. Even so, I still want to be able to see it in my mirror as it is developing so I can increase my chances of avoiding it.
09-08-19, 05:54 AM
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The death penalty is thought to be a deterrent against heinous crimes, though states with a death penalty have no reduction in capital crimes. Enforcement and punishment is not a substitute for prevention.
Last edited by Unca_Sam; 09-08-19 at 06:00 AM.
09-08-19, 06:48 AM
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Yeah, so your super narrow, super high pressure "racing bike tire" isn't gonna do well on a rough shoulder... YOU are not gonna do well when an idiot driver comes along... and they do.
09-08-19, 09:20 AM
#99
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This thread reminded me of the movie Emperor of the North with Lee Marvin, Ernest Borgnine and Keith Caradine.
If cyclists could drag around something that would bounce around, cars would keep a safe distance or get body damage. The sound of something banging under them would make them slow down.
If cyclists could drag around something that would bounce around, cars would keep a safe distance or get body damage. The sound of something banging under them would make them slow down.
09-08-19, 11:08 AM
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I mean I don't get it really. Elon Musk's car is autonomously avoiding such crashes. This technology exists. And I assume it is not really that expensive. At least in the United States. It shouldn't be that hard to implement some kind of law to prevent cars without that technology to go into traffic. Think about the number of lives that can be saved just by this sole technology. Especially children.
What makes you think that technology exists for cars to always avoid colliding with non-stationary objects on any and every road that motor vehicles and bicycles are permitted?
Why do you assume it would not really be that expensive to install this fantastic and yet to be developed hardware and software on every motor vehicle in the United States ? What is your definition of expensive? How much do you currently spend on your motor vehicles and how much more are you willing to spend on a a so-called "Elon Musk car" based on an empty promise to allegedly "save the children"?
What makes you think it shouldn't be that hard to implement some kind of law to prevent cars without that technology to go into traffic? Who is going to "implement" such a law?
"Think about it" indeed rather than just whatever pipe dream comes to mind about the number of lives that can be saved just by this "sole technology" that exists in your daydreams.