Campagnolo 10spd Veloce Conversion
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Campagnolo 10spd Veloce Conversion
Hello,
I currently have campagnolo veloce 10 speed on my 90s Bianchi reparto corse. I was wondering if anyone had experience with the 10spd Veloce and have any recommendations on upgrading this groupset?
Thank you!
I currently have campagnolo veloce 10 speed on my 90s Bianchi reparto corse. I was wondering if anyone had experience with the 10spd Veloce and have any recommendations on upgrading this groupset?
Thank you!
#2
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Southern Cal
Posts: 153
Bikes: Masi Gran Crit, Bianchi Campione D' Italia 84, Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra, Ibis Ripley, Co Motion Tandem, Merlin Agilis, Ritchey Breakaway, Bianchi Infinito CV, Colnago Master
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked 129 Times
in
63 Posts
I’ve had several 10 speed Campy bikes, but only Record or Chorus. My understanding is that the only real difference from Record through Veloce is materials used in the component - which translates to weight savings?
What specifically are your trying to upgrade? Cassette? Shifters?
If it is going on a C&V, the question is whether the weight savings is really significant to justify the expense.
What specifically are your trying to upgrade? Cassette? Shifters?
If it is going on a C&V, the question is whether the weight savings is really significant to justify the expense.
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 528
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 237 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 83 Times
in
64 Posts
However, the only ones that you'd probably be able to notice is the shifter if you have a worn set of ergos, the rear brake, and maybe worse shifting with stamped chainrings.
#6
I never finish anyth
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Western KY
Posts: 1,122
Bikes: 2008 Merckx LXM, 2003 Giant XTC mtb, 2001 Lemond Alpe d'Huez, 1997 Lemond Zurich, 1989 Cannondale ST, 1988 Masi Nuovo Strada, 1983 Pinarello Turismo
Mentioned: 63 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 294 Post(s)
Liked 137 Times
in
86 Posts
This is correct. I have Veloce on my Merckx, and the shifters are ultrashift, which moves multiple cogs both up and down. I think they are pre-2014. The more recent Veloce shifters are one-cog-at-a-time shifters, most likely to lure riders to move up to higher-end groups that offer that functionality.
__________________
Dale, NL4T
Dale, NL4T
Likes For speedevil:
#7
aka Tom Reingold
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,691
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Mentioned: 510 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7287 Post(s)
Liked 2,362 Times
in
1,381 Posts
I have 10-speed Veloce on one of my bikes. I would not upgrade it. I love it as it is. The shifting is better than on any of my bikes. Do I have low standards?
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#8
Senior Member
I have used and serviced about every vintage of Ergopower shifters from early 8-speed to 11-speeds.
If your Veloce shifters are Ultrashift 10-speeds (multiple downshifts), then there is no upgrade. When new, the shifting will be as good as any mechanical shifting ever made, right up to current. The internals of these shifters are as good as any Ultrashift shifters (up to Record) with only minor differences in materials. The cartridge bearings on the central shaft in Record and Chorus have no discernable positive effect on shifting - as far as I can tell. I have multiple sets of Campagnolo 10-speed Ultrashift shifters (Record, Chorus, Centaur, Daytona, Veloce) and I can feel no performance difference between them.
These shifters are rebuildable so that with the replacement of $25 worth of parts, they are essentially new. I have 8-speed Ergopower shifters that have gone through 4 rebuilds over 20 years, and perform as well as new.
I see many cyclists with shifting problems. 90% of the time it is due to kinked cables, frayed cables jamming up the system, worn-out chains, etc.
With Ultrashift, replace the G-springs and spring carrier when needed. Replace the hoods every few years. Replace the shift cables and housing yearly. Replace your chain every 2 - 3,000 miles - max.
If your Veloce shifters are Ultrashift 10-speeds (multiple downshifts), then there is no upgrade. When new, the shifting will be as good as any mechanical shifting ever made, right up to current. The internals of these shifters are as good as any Ultrashift shifters (up to Record) with only minor differences in materials. The cartridge bearings on the central shaft in Record and Chorus have no discernable positive effect on shifting - as far as I can tell. I have multiple sets of Campagnolo 10-speed Ultrashift shifters (Record, Chorus, Centaur, Daytona, Veloce) and I can feel no performance difference between them.
These shifters are rebuildable so that with the replacement of $25 worth of parts, they are essentially new. I have 8-speed Ergopower shifters that have gone through 4 rebuilds over 20 years, and perform as well as new.
I see many cyclists with shifting problems. 90% of the time it is due to kinked cables, frayed cables jamming up the system, worn-out chains, etc.
With Ultrashift, replace the G-springs and spring carrier when needed. Replace the hoods every few years. Replace the shift cables and housing yearly. Replace your chain every 2 - 3,000 miles - max.
Likes For Dave Mayer:
#9
Junior Member
Thread Starter
I have used and serviced about every vintage of Ergopower shifters from early 8-speed to 11-speeds.
If your Veloce shifters are Ultrashift 10-speeds (multiple downshifts), then there is no upgrade. When new, the shifting will be as good as any mechanical shifting ever made, right up to current. The internals of these shifters are as good as any Ultrashift shifters (up to Record) with only minor differences in materials. The cartridge bearings on the central shaft in Record and Chorus have no discernable positive effect on shifting - as far as I can tell. I have multiple sets of Campagnolo 10-speed Ultrashift shifters (Record, Chorus, Centaur, Daytona, Veloce) and I can feel no performance difference between them.
These shifters are rebuildable so that with the replacement of $25 worth of parts, they are essentially new. I have 8-speed Ergopower shifters that have gone through 4 rebuilds over 20 years, and perform as well as new.
I see many cyclists with shifting problems. 90% of the time it is due to kinked cables, frayed cables jamming up the system, worn-out chains, etc.
With Ultrashift, replace the G-springs and spring carrier when needed. Replace the hoods every few years. Replace the shift cables and housing yearly. Replace your chain every 2 - 3,000 miles - max.
If your Veloce shifters are Ultrashift 10-speeds (multiple downshifts), then there is no upgrade. When new, the shifting will be as good as any mechanical shifting ever made, right up to current. The internals of these shifters are as good as any Ultrashift shifters (up to Record) with only minor differences in materials. The cartridge bearings on the central shaft in Record and Chorus have no discernable positive effect on shifting - as far as I can tell. I have multiple sets of Campagnolo 10-speed Ultrashift shifters (Record, Chorus, Centaur, Daytona, Veloce) and I can feel no performance difference between them.
These shifters are rebuildable so that with the replacement of $25 worth of parts, they are essentially new. I have 8-speed Ergopower shifters that have gone through 4 rebuilds over 20 years, and perform as well as new.
I see many cyclists with shifting problems. 90% of the time it is due to kinked cables, frayed cables jamming up the system, worn-out chains, etc.
With Ultrashift, replace the G-springs and spring carrier when needed. Replace the hoods every few years. Replace the shift cables and housing yearly. Replace your chain every 2 - 3,000 miles - max.
One thing that is kind of annoying is when if I shift from the small chainring to the big one too fast, the chain slips off the ring. Would this be because the limiters on the front derailleur aren’t properly tuned?
#10
Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 9,170
Bikes: Cheltenham-Pedersen racer, Boulder F/S Paris-Roubaix, Varsity racer, '52 Christophe, '62 Continental, '92 Merckx, '75 Limongi, '76 Presto, '72 Gitane SC, '71 Schwinn SS, etc.
Mentioned: 132 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1554 Post(s)
Liked 1,273 Times
in
845 Posts
Thank you for this awesome advice from your expertise! It is veloce with ultrashift, I love the way it feels but was wondering if there was better out there.
One thing that is kind of annoying is when if I shift from the small chainring to the big one too fast, the chain slips off the ring. Would this be because the limiters on the front derailleur aren’t properly tuned?
One thing that is kind of annoying is when if I shift from the small chainring to the big one too fast, the chain slips off the ring. Would this be because the limiters on the front derailleur aren’t properly tuned?
But first, verify that the lower edge of the outer cage plate is just a couple of millimeters above the tips of the big chainring's teeth.
Also verify that the outer cage plate is nearly parallel to the outer chainring.
Observe whether the derailer cage is bent/damaged.
Observe whether the big chainring turns straight, i.e. no side-to-side wobble.
Now, shift to the tallest gear (big chainring and smallest rear cog), then observe what clearance exists between the outer cage plate and the chain. This clearance should be near-zero IF the chainring turns without any significant side-to-side warpage/wobble.
So there should also be no chain rubbing against the front derailer cage following an upshift to the tallest gear.
You will then want to tighten the outer-most (hi-limit) screw so that upshifting to the large ring doesn't create any excess of the chain clearance there, but still no rubbing of the chain against the outer cage plate.
Then shift up and down a few times to verify robust shifting AND chain control.
Lastly, the cable tension may need attention after re-setting the limit screw, but unlikely here if shifting seems quick and reliable.
Also lubricate the cable where it passes under the bottom bracket shell.
Last edited by dddd; 11-17-19 at 02:26 PM.
#11
Senior Member
No, very high standards, IMO. I have a set of Veloce aluminum levers that ratchet MANY steps on the left shifter, and can shift up or dump nearly the entire 10 speed width.
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 2,409
Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1103 Post(s)
Liked 1,823 Times
in
878 Posts
Thank you for this awesome advice from your expertise! It is veloce with ultrashift, I love the way it feels but was wondering if there was better out there.
One thing that is kind of annoying is when if I shift from the small chainring to the big one too fast, the chain slips off the ring. Would this be because the limiters on the front derailleur aren’t properly tuned?
One thing that is kind of annoying is when if I shift from the small chainring to the big one too fast, the chain slips off the ring. Would this be because the limiters on the front derailleur aren’t properly tuned?
https://k-edge.com/shop/chain-catche...chain-catcher/
DOG FANG - Deda Elementi - Componenti per biciclette
#13
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Install one of the two products below and it won't happen again. It's the 16 tooth difference and narrow chain that makes it happen, especially on double downshifts.
https://k-edge.com/shop/chain-catche...chain-catcher/
DOG FANG - Deda Elementi - Componenti per biciclette
https://k-edge.com/shop/chain-catche...chain-catcher/
DOG FANG - Deda Elementi - Componenti per biciclette
#14
Junior Member
Thread Starter
To the OP, you are probably correct about that.
But first, verify that the lower edge of the outer cage plate is just a couple of millimeters above the tips of the big chainring's teeth.
Also verify that the outer cage plate is nearly parallel to the outer chainring.
Observe whether the derailer cage is bent/damaged.
Observe whether the big chainring turns straight, i.e. no side-to-side wobble.
Now, shift to the tallest gear (big chainring and smallest rear cog), then observe what clearance exists between the outer cage plate and the chain. This clearance should be near-zero IF the chainring turns without any significant side-to-side warpage/wobble.
So there should also be no chain rubbing against the front derailer cage following an upshift to the tallest gear.
You will then want to tighten the outer-most (hi-limit) screw so that upshifting to the large ring doesn't create any excess of the chain clearance there, but still no rubbing of the chain against the outer cage plate.
Then shift up and down a few times to verify robust shifting AND chain control.
Lastly, the cable tension may need attention after re-setting the limit screw, but unlikely here if shifting seems quick and reliable.
Also lubricate the cable where it passes under the bottom bracket shell.
But first, verify that the lower edge of the outer cage plate is just a couple of millimeters above the tips of the big chainring's teeth.
Also verify that the outer cage plate is nearly parallel to the outer chainring.
Observe whether the derailer cage is bent/damaged.
Observe whether the big chainring turns straight, i.e. no side-to-side wobble.
Now, shift to the tallest gear (big chainring and smallest rear cog), then observe what clearance exists between the outer cage plate and the chain. This clearance should be near-zero IF the chainring turns without any significant side-to-side warpage/wobble.
So there should also be no chain rubbing against the front derailer cage following an upshift to the tallest gear.
You will then want to tighten the outer-most (hi-limit) screw so that upshifting to the large ring doesn't create any excess of the chain clearance there, but still no rubbing of the chain against the outer cage plate.
Then shift up and down a few times to verify robust shifting AND chain control.
Lastly, the cable tension may need attention after re-setting the limit screw, but unlikely here if shifting seems quick and reliable.
Also lubricate the cable where it passes under the bottom bracket shell.
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 1,988
Bikes: ‘87 Marinoni SLX Sports Tourer, ‘79 Miyata 912 by Gugificazione
Mentioned: 166 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 500 Post(s)
Liked 464 Times
in
255 Posts
I’m a fan of the N-Gear Jump Stop with my triple ring setups, but that one seems to be unavailable these days.
@dddd didn’t mention adjustment of the FD low limit, which should be set so that the chain just clears the inner cage plate when in the lowest gear (small chain ring, biggest rear cog). Then increase that clearance only as necessary to get a reliable downshift in front. Check that for a variety of rear cogs.
I’d also suggest verifying that your chain is the shortest possible. I like “big cog-big ring + 1” with my 8-speed Ergo systems. I noticed that the following video has a section specifically for Campy.
Last edited by Dfrost; 11-19-19 at 01:39 PM.
#16
Banned.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 27,297
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 378 Post(s)
Liked 1,407 Times
in
908 Posts
I had the newer Veloce on a Simoncini, and I thought it outperformed a lot of stuff. I must have been paying attention to the build that day.
Last edited by RobbieTunes; 11-20-19 at 05:38 AM.
Likes For RobbieTunes:
#17
Senior Member
Real early model 10 speed Centaur ultrashift levers had ball bearings, just like Record. I had some of those that I later converted to 11 speed.
FWIW, the new Chorus 12 speed is the best performing Campy group I've owned. I recently sold a 2018 Chorus 11 group and replaced it with 12. I really like the 12 speed shifters, but there is no silver version.
#18
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Finally got to 10 posts! Not sure if the shifters are ergo or ultra now.. but they shift about 4 up and 4 down . Here are some pics of the components:
#19
Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 9,170
Bikes: Cheltenham-Pedersen racer, Boulder F/S Paris-Roubaix, Varsity racer, '52 Christophe, '62 Continental, '92 Merckx, '75 Limongi, '76 Presto, '72 Gitane SC, '71 Schwinn SS, etc.
Mentioned: 132 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1554 Post(s)
Liked 1,273 Times
in
845 Posts
Great pictures, I'm glad to see that this bike isn't a mess.
All looks good, but what can't be seen is how far outward that the cage moves when the shift is actually occurring, before letting go of the upshift lever.
It should always be able to move slightly beyond the position that it comes to rest at, so that the rest position (after the upshift has been completed and your hand released) is not solidly up against the hi-limit screw tip (otherwise the cable tension will tend to force downshifts in response to even slight flexing of the downtube and seattube junction).
The slight bit of allowable cage travel beyond the rest point also makes shifting faster and easier on your hand muscles, and improves the service life of the G-springs, cable and derailer. The same applies to the rear derailer btw, except that it is the lo-limit screw that must not be set too tight (noting also that any subsequent cable tension adjustments will affect how the limit screw setting intercedes at the travel limit where the largest sprocket is engaged).
All looks good, but what can't be seen is how far outward that the cage moves when the shift is actually occurring, before letting go of the upshift lever.
It should always be able to move slightly beyond the position that it comes to rest at, so that the rest position (after the upshift has been completed and your hand released) is not solidly up against the hi-limit screw tip (otherwise the cable tension will tend to force downshifts in response to even slight flexing of the downtube and seattube junction).
The slight bit of allowable cage travel beyond the rest point also makes shifting faster and easier on your hand muscles, and improves the service life of the G-springs, cable and derailer. The same applies to the rear derailer btw, except that it is the lo-limit screw that must not be set too tight (noting also that any subsequent cable tension adjustments will affect how the limit screw setting intercedes at the travel limit where the largest sprocket is engaged).
#20
Senior Member
Ergopower is the general term for all Campagnolo integrated brake/shift levers from about 1992 to present. Brifters, if you wish.
Ultrashift is the category of Campagnolo shifters that have multiple downshift capability. Powershift requires that you hit the downshift paddle for every gear change. Ultrashift is now limited to Chorus and above. Circa 2006, Campagnolo had 9 and 10-speed Ultrashift levers down to the Veloce level. I may even have some 9-speed Mirage levers in a box with the Ultrashift feature. The internals of the Ultrashift levers were functionally equivalent, and shifted the same - as far as I could tell, in terms of precision, accuracy and ergonomics.
The internals of Ultrashift levers changed around 2010. Previously, the indexing was accomplished with G-springs running over a notched disc; the springs had to be replaced every 10,000 miles or so, and the spring carriers often cracked. After 2009, Campagnolo accomplished the indexing using a couple of spring-loaded ball bearings that ran over a notched plate. I have serviced both types of shifters - many times. The new design is an improvement in terms of longevity, but the shifting is no better than the old design.
Bearings.. what I was referring to was the two rows of cartridge bearings around the central shaft in the older Chorus and Record Ultrashift levers. Theoretically, they had less friction and therefore easier shifting than the brass bushing in the lower-lever levers. In practice, I couldn't tell any difference.
Likes For Dave Mayer: