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Correct 700c rims for 1973 Paramount?

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Correct 700c rims for 1973 Paramount?

Old 05-22-19, 12:07 AM
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Olympianrider
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Correct 700c rims for 1973 Paramount?

Hello all,

I wanted to post a note here because I'm thinking some of you with greater experience may be able to offer guidance. The other day I was contemplating the purchase of a modern carbon-fiber frame when I took a peek at eBay and found the bike I'd wanted back in high school. In my color, my size, my price, and from a seller just a couple hours away. So now I am the owner of a reddish-orange 1973 Schwinn Paramount 10-9 with the chrome Nervex lugs and everything else that makes bike people giddy. The modern-bike purchase has been put off another year.

Forty years ago I saw one on the wall of a Schwinn shop in Spokane. The salesman explained it was what the serious riders used -- there was nothing better in the world. In high school I couldn't afford a $700 bicycle. That's about what I paid the other night.

Now, there's a lot of stuff that's going to need to be changed out in order to put it back to original, in my preferred configuration. Most of it I understand fully, after building another similar-vintage bike from the frame up. And I recognize the importance of getting everything right on a bike like this one. But one part throws me. The rims.

I get the idea, perusing various vintage-bike websites, that this bike came originally only with Weinmann 27-inch rims. That size is what most everybody used at the time. But I much prefer 700c rims, and dang it, that's what I'm going to use. (Of course, with the Campy Nuovo Record high-flange hubs.)

Was there a 700c option on the 1973 Paramount?

If so, what was the manufacturer and model name?

Is there a new rim that looks the same as the original equipment, but in 700c size?

And finally, I've always had this idea that rims wear out, and using a vintage rim is a bad idea. But is it? Keep in mind, this is a bike that's going to get used, not hang on the wall.

Thanks,

Erik Smith
Olympia, Wash.

Last edited by Olympianrider; 05-22-19 at 12:16 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 05-22-19, 12:26 AM
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Not a Paramount expert, but if you are putting 700c - might as be tubulars with silver rims - and tan walls.
'It was what the serious riders used.'
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Old 05-22-19, 12:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Olympianrider View Post
Hello all,

I wanted to post a note here because I'm thinking some of you with greater experience may be able to offer guidance. The other day I was contemplating the purchase of a modern carbon-fiber frame when I took a peek at eBay and found the bike I'd wanted back in high school. In my color, my size, my price, and from a seller just a couple hours away. So now I am the owner of a reddish-orange 1973 Schwinn Paramount 10-9 with the chrome Nerves lugs and everything else that makes bike people giddy. The modern-bike purchase has been put off another year.

Forty years ago I saw one on the wall of a Schwinn shop in Spokane. The salesman explained it was what the serious riders used -- there was nothing better in the world. In high school I couldn't afford a $700 bicycle. That's about what I paid the other night.

Now, there's a lot of stuff that's going to need to be changed out in order to put it back to original, in my preferred configuration. Most of it I understand fully, after building another similar-vintage bike from the frame up. And I recognize the importance of getting everything right on a bike like this one. But one part throws me. The rims.

I get the idea, perusing various vintage-bike websites, that this bike came originally only with Weinmann 27-inch rims. That size is what most everybody used at the time. But I much prefer 700c rims, and dang it, that's what I'm going to use.

Was there a 700c option on the 1973 Paramount?

If so, what was the manufacturer and model name?

Is there a new rim that looks the same as the original equipment, but in 700c size?

And finally, I've always had this idea that rims wear out, and using a vintage rim is a bad idea. But is it? Keep in mind, this is a bike that's going to get used, not hang on the wall.

Thanks,

Erik Smith
Olympia, Wash.
So gotta say it, "pics or it didn't happen". As far as the wheels, Super Champion would be one of the main choices if you can find some NOS in the right hole count, they would likely be cost prohibitive for regular use.
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Old 05-22-19, 03:56 AM
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While the 1973 P-13 would have come equipped with tubular 700c wheels, it would not be unusual for the owner of a P-10 to upgrade the 27" clinchers to a tubular wheelset. In fact, if the bike was ordered at the Schwinn LBS (as opposed to being on the showroom floor), the customer could have easily specified tubulars at that time.

I bought a '71 P-13 frameset about a decade ago. Originally I had a set of 27" clinchers (that just barely fit). I eventually found a set of vintage Hi-E hubs/Fiamme rims tubular wheels and oh how the ride is exquisite! Keep an eye on ebay, CL and the C&V classified for good deals on vintage tubular wheel sets. Even if they don't have the Campy high flange hubs, they will be worth the effort.
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Old 05-22-19, 04:04 AM
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I am no expert but wasn’t there lots of options available for a Paramount? So unless you have the build sheet how can you be sure what is “original”.

As others mentioned silver tubulars are the mostly likely choice �� but I think a nice box section clincher like the Sun CR 18 would look good and pretty correct on it.
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Old 05-22-19, 05:58 AM
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Using vintage rims is ok but I usually only do so I there is little to no use on them.

If you get to vintage clinchers, I would get hooked rims. Something from the 80s. I got Wolber Super Champion Alpines when I upgraded my 70s Schwinn to 700c clinchers.
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Old 05-22-19, 06:14 AM
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700c clincher wheels wasnt an option in '73. I dont think you would see any bike with 700's until Raleigh put them on the Super Course in '77. 27" rims and tires were standard well into the 80's.

Schwinn ran with Weinmann rims for many years. A pair of Weinmann Concave rims would be a nice option.
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Old 05-22-19, 06:19 AM
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I'd built 700c clinchers for that bike and I wouldn't sweat using a modern, quality rim that would look right on a vintage bike like the H plus son TB 14:

TB14 | H PLUS SON

If I were looking for vintage rims, I'd get the Mavic MA 2s. Before I pay good money for a vintage rim, I'd hunt around for a decent period correct clincher wheelset. They're out there. Used rims are a bit of a crap shoot and NOS vintage rims are expensive.
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Old 05-22-19, 06:20 AM
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Vintage Weinmann exist in 700 though they will be a bit hard to find as here in US everyone was still on 27. They are good rims but not that strong, always vulnerable to damage. Without a hook better to use them with steel-beaded tires or at least keep the pressure down.

1973 was right about when the Super Champion #58 rim began to be popular. Again they exist in 700 and will be hard to find. Ten years ago they were priced crazy, you can get them now for less than most better new rims. An extremely strong and tough rim, lasts at least as long as anything new. Has bead hooks. Wide enough to be comfortable with tires as wide as an original Schwinn LeTour or wider if you want. Only imaginable downside is they are a little heavier than most (not all) new rims.

Slightly later rims are labeled as 'Gentleman' and even later ones are Wolber Gentleman but all same rim as a #58 .

Closest current production rims with a vintage look would be Pacenti Brevet or H+Son TB14.

Unless you are seeking very rare rims, much scarcer than what's being discussed, use NOS rims on a rider. They are out there.
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Old 05-22-19, 06:44 AM
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My '72 Paramount came with Weinmann AG Alesa 210 clinchers from the factory.


One popular option for "serious" riders back then was the substitution of Fiamme Ergal gold label (700c) tubulars, such as these.
They have a reputation for being very light, and a bit fragile. "Serious" riders accepted this, and spent the extra effort and $$$ to have them trued or replaced when needed.
These Fiamme yellow label rims are a bit more robust. Replacement labels for both types are readily available.
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Old 05-22-19, 07:09 AM
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Sometimes better to forego the old and use the new, at least as far as the wallet is concerned... +1 on the H+Son TB14's, box section rims that both look and ride great and both my Paramounts wear them. Velo Orange has a sale on their PBP and Raid rims, also very nice looking and less expensive than the TB14's, I purchased a set of Raids for later use. And the Sun Rims CR18's look good, not quite as nice as the others but close and even less expensive.. Any of those have the right look you're after. .

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Old 05-22-19, 07:27 AM
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clinchers were not that great in '73 and I didn't see anything as small as 25mm until a little later than 73. But I did have a set that fit on my racing bike in '75 or '76. I'm pretty sure those were 27x1" which I would swap for tubulars on race day. Tubulars were starting to get a bit expensive for a high schooler at that time, although I had some Wobler CX tubulars that sold for $10. 700c clincher rims weren't real common in the U.S. until later in the '70s.

Even non-racers would often ride on tubular tires, it was just what you did back then. Every bike shop had them.
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Old 05-22-19, 07:55 AM
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Hudson308;My '72 Paramount came with Weinmann AG Alesa 210 clinchers from the factory.
Yep, the common OEM set-up for both P-10 & P-15 in the era with either the plush 27X1 1/4 Schwinn LeTour or 27X1 1/8 Schwinn skin-wall tires fitted.
Modern rims and tires are arguably "better" but the OEM set-up worked just fine.

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Old 05-22-19, 07:57 AM
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As already mentioned by others, there are no correct 700c clincher rims because they hadn't been introduced yet in 1973 (at least in N. America). When 700c first became available it was mostly as a convenience for racers who wanted to swap training clinchers with race day wheels (sew ups) without having to readjust the brakes. It was a small niche.

If you really want to be concours correct about it, the wheels have to be shod with either vintage Weinmann 27" rims, or tubulars.

Vintage clinchers sucked. Both the tires and the rims. Therefore, I'd suggest not being to OCD about it and using a modern rim with a polished finish instead. TB14, Sun M13II, etc. Nobody will be able to tell from 6 feet away.

Or put sew ups on it...
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Old 05-22-19, 09:12 AM
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Silver tubulars
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Old 05-22-19, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Olympianrider View Post

And finally, I've always had this idea that rims wear out, and using a vintage rim is a bad idea. But is it? Keep in mind, this is a bike that's going to get used, not hang on the wall.

Thanks,

Erik Smith
Olympia, Wash.
...in my personal experience, I usually ride the bikes I own that have tubular rims and tyres way less than the ones with more modern rims and high performance modern clincher tyres.

Just last winter I built up five or six wheelsets to swap out for the tubulars on the bikes that have them. If you go with a a modern lightweight alloy rim like the H plus sons one mentioned, or maybe a Mavic Open Elite (which is bargain priced by one seller on e-bay), and buy a quality high pressure, lightweight tyre in something like a 700x25c, you can get a ride that is not far off the ride of tubulars. It's just a lot more sensible for something that gets ridden because the tyres are more easily repaired when flatted.

Anyway, that's what I do. I have a red early 70's P13 that came to me with what were said to be the original wheels, and they are tubulars. I hardly ever ride it. I have a P15, and the originals on that bike were said to be clinchers. Even in the 70's, very few people were bold enough to tour on tubular tyres.
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Old 05-22-19, 10:07 AM
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Another +1 for the H+Son TB14's. I recently build a set to replace Weinmann concave 700C wheels.



Like a few others have mentioned already, alternatives are Velo Orange rims, Pacenti Brevet (also 650B), Cycles Grand Bois and SunXCD.

Last edited by JaccoW; 05-22-19 at 04:39 PM.
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Old 05-22-19, 10:49 AM
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Another vote for tubulars.
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Old 05-22-19, 11:08 AM
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put me in the tubular vote....
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Old 05-22-19, 12:52 PM
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+N for polished TB-14’s, of which I have two 700C sets, and the Pacenti Brevets (have a 650B pair of these) are also very nice, less weight, higher price.

If you go with clinchers, which I’d recommend if you’re planning to put serious miles on this beauty as you say (let’s see some photos!), I’d also recommend Rene Herse tires in the largest size that will fit. They remind me of the Clement sew-ups of my distant past. Love my 28’s, 32’s and 650x38’s!

https://www.renehersecycles.com/prod...ts/tires/700c/(let’s see some photos!)

Don’t forget to put new brake pads on it, too! Even if the original ones look great, they are surely as hard as bricks by now.

And join us for C&V rides here in the upper left corner. They’re typically listed in this forum. We have them occasionally in and around Seattle, and the Portland folks have them even more often.

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Old 05-22-19, 01:16 PM
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I really liked the TB14 rims for their vintage look, decent internal width and rock-solid construction.

I've also built with the Pacenti Brevit rims, lighter than the TB14's, wider-yet inside width, and with most credible vintage proportions, makes these quite special imo.

The TB14's are more robust and can be built up with higher tensions that the Brevits, so the loading should be considered when choosing one of these really fine modern rims.
I'm quite thankful to both of these vendors for stepping up with reasonably-priced products having the design features that seem perfect for us vintage riders.

The original Weinmann clinchers (though single-walled, so not as strong) are quite nice if they can contain the pressures that you want to put in the tires. Some Weinmann rims of this vintage seemed to have lax quality control in terms of diameter, I've seen a few that couldn't hold decent pressure in wire-bead Pasela tires but you can test for this by watching the tire beads as you inflate past your preferred riding pressure.
Many of the old hookless clincher rims could reliably handle 100psi using wire-bead tires, but experience with certain batches of the Weinmann rims led people to make blanket statements to the contrary.
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Old 05-22-19, 07:17 PM
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I recently had a new wheelset built using CR18 rims on my Campy high flange hubs (originally laced to Fiamne Red Label tubulars). I thought they looked too wide and kind of chunky, but after mounting a set of Pasela 28s, I'm very happy with the look and the ride. The big stickers are easily removable if you feel the need. At $70 for the pair shipped, I'm very happy with them. My '64 Legnano is a rider, not a museum piece, and it handled this past Eroica just fine.

I recently acquired a '60 or '61 Legnano Gran Premio that came with Araya 700c clinchers, one hook rim, one not. They look good to me and seem to ride fine, currently with Gatorskin 25s, but don't have the high polish look of the CR18s.

Naked CR18.


My Legnano Roma on CR18s.

The Gran Premio on period Arayas (my $100 Clunker ride)

BTW since my first junior race on a 40 lb Schwinn Continental a Paramount has been on my bucket list for over 50 years. The Legnano Roma was my junior race bike.

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Old 05-22-19, 08:37 PM
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According to the 1973 Schwinn catalog, a P15 would have come with 27" x 1-1/4" high pressure clincher tires standard. the brand of rim isn't specified but Weinmann seemed to be very common in this era. Two tubular options were offered. Wheels and tires aren't specified for the P10, but I would think they are the same.

http://www.schwinnbikeforum.com/SLDB...73xlite02b.jpg
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Old 05-24-19, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Kactus View Post
According to the 1973 Schwinn catalog, a P15 would have come with 27" x 1-1/4" high pressure clincher tires standard. the brand of rim isn't specified but Weinmann seemed to be very common in this era. Two tubular options were offered. Wheels and tires aren't specified for the P10, but I would think they are the same.

http://www.schwinnbikeforum.com/SLDB...73xlite02b.jpg
Thanks for the link. Any idea what the stock tubular rims would have been? "Schwinn approved aluminum alloy". Or was there no specified maker?
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Old 05-24-19, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by jeirvine View Post
Thanks for the link. Any idea what the stock tubular rims would have been? "Schwinn approved aluminum alloy". Or was there no specified maker?
Way back I saw what could have been either Super Champion or Mavic relabeled as Schwinn Approved Tubular rims.
I would check the frame and fork to verify what the bike was constructed for, tubulars or 27" clinchers.

There were 700c clinchers back then, they were uncommon, Michelin was the brand we saw. A mechanic at the shop I worked for trained on 700c clinchers just to save $ and to feel fast when he swapped out for his race wheels.
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