Univega Gran Turismo (and the indomitable BB)
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Univega Gran Turismo (and the indomitable BB)
I recently acquired a Univega Gran Turismo of questionable crash status. Being the foolhardy person that I am, I decided I must ride it, slightly crashed frame and all. Unfortunately, my attempts at removing the bottom bracket have been met with fierce resistance. Such refusal has included two broken pins on the giant Park bottom bracket wrench, smashed fists, and spitting ammonia at me (granted, I tipped the frame the wrong way). I'm at a loss as to how to get enough grip or leverage to remove these cups. The threads have been slightly damaged due to my hammering zeal.
Both cups had lockrings on them (now lost), and I've tried unscrewing in both directions, just for good measure. The cups are very much seized, as there is a slight amount of corrosion creeping outward onto the threads. The cups are aluminum. Also: anyone know why they stuck the letters on the bottom of the frame? I've seen two Univegas with those stickers so far, and I don't think they came from the same bike shop.
Anyone have any homemade tool suggestions?
I'm at wits end; my next idea is to just throw some dry ice down the seat tube to see if i can cause some shrinkage. If that doesn't work...out comes the blowtorch!
Any suggestions are appreciated.
Both cups had lockrings on them (now lost), and I've tried unscrewing in both directions, just for good measure. The cups are very much seized, as there is a slight amount of corrosion creeping outward onto the threads. The cups are aluminum. Also: anyone know why they stuck the letters on the bottom of the frame? I've seen two Univegas with those stickers so far, and I don't think they came from the same bike shop.
Anyone have any homemade tool suggestions?
I'm at wits end; my next idea is to just throw some dry ice down the seat tube to see if i can cause some shrinkage. If that doesn't work...out comes the blowtorch!
Any suggestions are appreciated.
#2
holyrollin'
I've had good luck using PB Blaster on aluminum-steel threadings. The stuff wicks in there and has a bit of lubricity.
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ithaca, NY
Posts: 4,852
Bikes: Click on the #YOLO
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 12 Times
in
12 Posts
Are you planning on saving the cups? Can you get a bite on it with vice grips?
Be careful, that "G" side is left threaded.
Be careful, that "G" side is left threaded.
#4
Senior Member
Thread Starter
FlatTop - You just reminded me that I started out with PB blaster, squirting a fair amount and letting it sit for a week; didn't break, and didn't visibly reduce any of the corrosion.
IthaDan - I first tried a non-destructive removal with a regular pin spanner; however, after i determined that it was not going to come out with such a paltry amount of torque, I put a set of vice grips on it and wrenched pretty hard on it. The vice grips came loose . I tried turning it left first, but it wouldn't move at all. My next action was to turn right, logic being that if I could tighten it a bit more, it might break the corrosive bond. No luck with that either.
IthaDan - I first tried a non-destructive removal with a regular pin spanner; however, after i determined that it was not going to come out with such a paltry amount of torque, I put a set of vice grips on it and wrenched pretty hard on it. The vice grips came loose . I tried turning it left first, but it wouldn't move at all. My next action was to turn right, logic being that if I could tighten it a bit more, it might break the corrosive bond. No luck with that either.
#5
aka Tom Reingold
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,509
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Mentioned: 511 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7353 Post(s)
Liked 2,481 Times
in
1,440 Posts
Try the Sheldon method using a big bolt. Clamp the bolt in a vise, and use the frame as the lever.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#6
Insane Bicycle Mechanic
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: other Vancouver
Posts: 9,843
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 809 Post(s)
Liked 712 Times
in
380 Posts
Umm... destructive removal? File flats in what's left of the cups and then grab and turn them with a bench vice?
__________________
Jeff Wills
Comcast nuked my web page. It will return soon..
Jeff Wills
Comcast nuked my web page. It will return soon..
#7
rain dog
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Northern PA
Posts: 772
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
6 Posts
It sounds like you've been using all the right methods, ammonia is supposed to be the best for dissolving the chemical bonds between aluminum parts in a steel frame (but I've never had much luck with it).
As others mentioned, heat will make the aluminum parts expand faster so it's better for steel parts stuck inside aluminum (I recently had a bike trailer axle that it worked well with) but who knows, it may break something loose. I used a heat gun, which may be better than a blowtorch for saving the paint. Cold may also help, especially if you alternate hot and cold.
No one knows what those bb stickers are for (someone prove me wrong!). I've seen them on a few Univegas, mainly from the first few years of the 80s. Looks like this one is an 81.
As others mentioned, heat will make the aluminum parts expand faster so it's better for steel parts stuck inside aluminum (I recently had a bike trailer axle that it worked well with) but who knows, it may break something loose. I used a heat gun, which may be better than a blowtorch for saving the paint. Cold may also help, especially if you alternate hot and cold.
No one knows what those bb stickers are for (someone prove me wrong!). I've seen them on a few Univegas, mainly from the first few years of the 80s. Looks like this one is an 81.
#10
Old fart
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,792
Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3591 Post(s)
Liked 3,401 Times
in
1,935 Posts
#11
Senior Member
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Jose (Willow Glen) Ca
Posts: 9,849
Bikes: Kirk Custom JK Special, '84 Team Miyata,(dura ace old school) 80?? SR Semi-Pro 600 Arabesque
Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2339 Post(s)
Liked 2,832 Times
in
1,545 Posts
you need to get the spindle out first for that......can't do that unless at least one cup is out
__________________
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Jose (Willow Glen) Ca
Posts: 9,849
Bikes: Kirk Custom JK Special, '84 Team Miyata,(dura ace old school) 80?? SR Semi-Pro 600 Arabesque
Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2339 Post(s)
Liked 2,832 Times
in
1,545 Posts
My theory on the A and C letters on the BB shell. My mother in law's gran turismo (circa about 78) had these. I think these were during a boom period and shops may have not had as much experienced help. The letters probably matched a diagram that said put part that looks like this in the BB on the A side. Just a theory, but makes sense.
__________________
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)
#14
Senior Member
Thread Starter
i was thinking of trying to cut some ridges into the cups...but i wanted to make sure that i was not going to be cutting into a nice bottom bracket, or a sealed one for that matter. it still spins well...i'm just uneasy with the fact that there are no lockrings on there, and i have no clue on the condition of the inside of the bottom bracket shell.
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dallas / Ft Worth
Posts: 1,164
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Liked 1,513 Times
in
410 Posts
What tools have you tried on the fixed cup?
I have had success with this tool for many fixed cups.
Park HCW-4 Bottom Bracket Fixed/Adjustable Cup Wrench*
https://m.parktool.com/product/crank-...t-wrench-HCW-4
However I have broken pins b4 on the adjustable cup side as well.
If at an impasse is there a bike shop or Co-Op
*in area with experienced guys who may have the more expensive*BB removal *tools?
Found this YouTube *vid on BB removal humorous.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYlEG...e_gdata_player
I have had success with this tool for many fixed cups.
Park HCW-4 Bottom Bracket Fixed/Adjustable Cup Wrench*
https://m.parktool.com/product/crank-...t-wrench-HCW-4
However I have broken pins b4 on the adjustable cup side as well.
If at an impasse is there a bike shop or Co-Op
*in area with experienced guys who may have the more expensive*BB removal *tools?
Found this YouTube *vid on BB removal humorous.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYlEG...e_gdata_player
#18
rain dog
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Northern PA
Posts: 772
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
6 Posts
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 1,977
Bikes: Schwinn Paramount P15, Fisher Montare, Proteus, Rivendell Quickbeam
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times
in
4 Posts
Whenever I run out of my homemade options to get something stubborn like this off, I take it to my trusty LBS. My LBS has been around for a long time and is used to dealing with stuff like this. I wind up spending $3 and saving about 3 hours of my own time.
#20
Biking Viking.
There's better ideas already posted but...
I've had some luck heating up parts with heat gun, then pouring cold water on it/putting it in ice water. Had to repeat the cycle a couple times, but seemed to work sometimes.
I've had some luck heating up parts with heat gun, then pouring cold water on it/putting it in ice water. Had to repeat the cycle a couple times, but seemed to work sometimes.
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 5,384
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2490 Post(s)
Liked 2,961 Times
in
1,682 Posts
(1) File or grind flats into the back of a pin spanner.
(2) Reinstall the crank arm (use the left crank arm on both the left and right sides to give you room to work) so that the pin spanner is held firmly in place (i.e., so that it can't slip).
(3) Use a large-diameter pipe (e.g., the steerer tube of a fork) for leverage and remove the cup by turning clockwise for the right cup and counterclockwise for the left cup.
If one of the cups still won't budge, grind down another pin spanner, hold both pin spanners in place with the crank arm, and use two pipes (one for each spanner, of course).
(2) Reinstall the crank arm (use the left crank arm on both the left and right sides to give you room to work) so that the pin spanner is held firmly in place (i.e., so that it can't slip).
(3) Use a large-diameter pipe (e.g., the steerer tube of a fork) for leverage and remove the cup by turning clockwise for the right cup and counterclockwise for the left cup.
If one of the cups still won't budge, grind down another pin spanner, hold both pin spanners in place with the crank arm, and use two pipes (one for each spanner, of course).
Last edited by Trakhak; 03-01-12 at 10:21 AM.
#22
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I love the alternative suggestions, especially Trakhack's idea of monstrous leverage. Unfortunately, I do not feel like breaking any more pin spanners. I think I might take it to the shop for laughs later on today. Hopefully they'll be game. I'll report back with results.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Charles Wahl
Classic & Vintage
13
04-26-21 09:24 AM
1falling1
Bicycle Mechanics
9
03-28-13 11:41 AM