Front Brake on the Right for Motorcycle Training?
#26
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Other than having handlebars and a hand-lever operated brake; the controls are so different between motors and velos, that setting up a velo with FR brakes for “training” is not much more than a placebo.
IME, throttle and clutch management is what takes most people more time to develop than braking, which is pretty straightforward.
Maybe also being an MTB guy; I always start rear brake first; that carried over to the motos. Starting with the rear, you’re already slowing and setting the suspension before the fronts start, lessening the “dive” that feels like you’re going to OTB.
Brakes aren’t an either/or all-or-nothing proposition ; I’m not sure why that trope persists around here.
IME, throttle and clutch management is what takes most people more time to develop than braking, which is pretty straightforward.
Maybe also being an MTB guy; I always start rear brake first; that carried over to the motos. Starting with the rear, you’re already slowing and setting the suspension before the fronts start, lessening the “dive” that feels like you’re going to OTB.
Brakes aren’t an either/or all-or-nothing proposition ; I’m not sure why that trope persists around here.
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#28
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😅 I'm still too fat for the sport bike riding position!
That said, as far as sport bikes go, I've seen quite a few used 250 Zooks for sale but no 250 Ninjas; all the Ninjas I've seen posted up locally were 400 and up - most of them 600s and higher.
The reason I say vintage Virago is because I'm a bit of an automotive atavist - I have more faith in points and carburetors than ECMs and by-wires (as I said earlier, my daily driver is a 1982 Peugeot 504 wagon.) Plus, Viragos are plentiful, and by all accounts are quality, highly customizable machines that can be anything and everything anyone wants them to be.
That said, as far as sport bikes go, I've seen quite a few used 250 Zooks for sale but no 250 Ninjas; all the Ninjas I've seen posted up locally were 400 and up - most of them 600s and higher.
The reason I say vintage Virago is because I'm a bit of an automotive atavist - I have more faith in points and carburetors than ECMs and by-wires (as I said earlier, my daily driver is a 1982 Peugeot 504 wagon.) Plus, Viragos are plentiful, and by all accounts are quality, highly customizable machines that can be anything and everything anyone wants them to be.
with low seat height, low weight, and a fairly comfortable riding position, the little Ninja - ‘Ninjette’ - was very popular with shorter riders and inexperienced riders including females ... despite the high revving engine (max hp @ 12,500 rpm ? / 14,000 rpm redline) the bike could be chugged around at low rpms all day long with little/no complaints ... throw some sticky rubber on it and a few other mods and you could have the ‘queen of lean’
I have not seen points on a motorcycle since early 70’s - and nor would I want to ... lol ... electronic ignition was one of the better advancements to motorcycles back in the day ...
Last edited by t2p; 08-18-23 at 06:21 PM.
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#29
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even smaller bikes can be fun ... vintage small displacement... 100 cc ...125 cc ....
bunch of guys I rode with (motorcycles and bicycles) started an informal group at one time ... ‘100 club’ ... vintage 100 and 125 cc and similar bikes ... street legal - most street and trail ... there were around 10 in the group and they had a blast riding those bikes ...
bunch of guys I rode with (motorcycles and bicycles) started an informal group at one time ... ‘100 club’ ... vintage 100 and 125 cc and similar bikes ... street legal - most street and trail ... there were around 10 in the group and they had a blast riding those bikes ...
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I used to ride motorcycles as well as a bicycle. At one time I had a BSA (made in England) and a Suzuki (Japanese) and the foot shifter and foot (rear) brake were on opposite sides on the motorcycles. So I had 2 motorcycles with opposite rear brake actuation and a bicycle with the rear brake actuated by a right hand brake lever. Never a problem with what worked for what. Doubt you'll have a problem.
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I've been a motorcyclist and bicyclist simultaneously for decades and say don't bother switching your bicycle lever. Simply not an issue.
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I used to ride motorcycles as well as a bicycle. At one time I had a BSA (made in England) and a Suzuki (Japanese) and the foot shifter and foot (rear) brake were on opposite sides on the motorcycles. So I had 2 motorcycles with opposite rear brake actuation and a bicycle with the rear brake actuated by a right hand brake lever. Never a problem with what worked for what. Doubt you'll have a problem.
It took less than half a lap to transition from street shifting to GP shifting.
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I had a track motorcycle with GP shifting - 1 up, 5 down. Street motorcycles are the opposite - 1 down, 4 or 5 up. Why the difference? GP shifting facilitates upshifts mid-corner - a simple downward tap of the shift lever while leaned over instead of trying to get the toe of your boot beneath the shifter without catching your toe on the asphalt.
It took less than half a lap to transition from street shifting to GP shifting.
It took less than half a lap to transition from street shifting to GP shifting.
And BTW.. prefer front brake on the right on a bicycle.
Why Brits drive on the left..... there are some reasons ... some might not fit.
1800 horse and buggy traffic.... you sat on the right of the buggy because most were right handed and used stronger right arm to control buggy whip.
Another thought... you are right handed and you go to the left in emergency to grab your sword... which is on your left.
How that all relates.....I don't know.
Last edited by trailangel; 08-21-23 at 07:38 PM.
#35
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I'm right front and always have been it never made sense to me to use my non-dominant hand on my most powerful brake
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not sure I could do a nose wheelie (‘stoppie’) with left lever controlling the front brake
guess I could with practice ...
guess I could with practice ...
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Back in the early '80's I was an MSF Instructor. For 16 yrs I rode a BMW. For the following 26 yrs it was Ducati and this year I bought a new Triumph. But, I digress. I've also ridden road bikes for about over 40 yrs. I have yet to be confused by the switch form bicycle to motorcycle.
#38
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Move the bicycle's front hand brake to the right. Then switch to a Sturmey-Archer S2C hub in the back, so you shift and brake with your feet. Bicycle ~ motorcycle.
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You can look back through the Schwinn catalogs and see that there was no American standard for hand brake level placement in the 1930s. This became regularized sometime in the 1950s. In the USA a bicycle's front hand brake is now required to be on the left (that is, when bicycles are sold new retail) by the CPSC. The thinking was that since the rider would legally be signaling turns and stops with their left hand, it was better to provide the idiot proof (skiddie safer than stoppie) rear brake to the hand remaining on the handlebars.
Once you own the bike, you can put the levers/brakes any way you like.
Once you own the bike, you can put the levers/brakes any way you like.
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I've been riding both for over 20 years, I've never had a problem switching between bicycles and motos. Even in "panic" scenarios, there has never been any confusion about the function of the levers.
I do admit that I have issues driving automatics sometimes...nothing major though. All my vehicles are manuals, so I'll find myself pushing the invisible clutch pedal and reaching for a shifter when in an auto.
I do admit that I have issues driving automatics sometimes...nothing major though. All my vehicles are manuals, so I'll find myself pushing the invisible clutch pedal and reaching for a shifter when in an auto.
Last edited by Sierra_rider; 08-22-23 at 08:16 AM.
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#41
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I've been riding both for over 20 years, I've never had a problem switching between bicycles and motos. Even in "panic" scenarios, there has never been any confusion about the function of the levers.
I do admit that I have issues driving automatics sometimes...nothing major though. All my vehicles are manuals, so I'll fine myself pushing the invisible clutch pedal and reaching for a shifter when in an auto.
I do admit that I have issues driving automatics sometimes...nothing major though. All my vehicles are manuals, so I'll fine myself pushing the invisible clutch pedal and reaching for a shifter when in an auto.
#42
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I think this falls under personal preference, but I have never seen a need to run bicycle brake levers "moto style". The people I know who do this seem to make a point to tell people that they do this, and then offer up various reasons as to why they do this.
I have definitely never had a problem forgetting which lever does what. I've also never had a problem switching between manual and automatic cars, and operating right-hand/left-hand drive cars (even with manuals).
The one area I have occasionally gotten confused on is trying to get into the passenger side of a RHD car. Also, pulling out of parking lots in the UK and turning onto small roads with no marked centerline still breaks my brain for a moment - forgetting which side of the road I should be on. Also as a pedestrian in the UK and forgetting to look for traffic coming from the right, instead of the left.
I have definitely never had a problem forgetting which lever does what. I've also never had a problem switching between manual and automatic cars, and operating right-hand/left-hand drive cars (even with manuals).
The one area I have occasionally gotten confused on is trying to get into the passenger side of a RHD car. Also, pulling out of parking lots in the UK and turning onto small roads with no marked centerline still breaks my brain for a moment - forgetting which side of the road I should be on. Also as a pedestrian in the UK and forgetting to look for traffic coming from the right, instead of the left.
#43
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To the OP. OK to do either setup. Change brake side on the pedal bike or just adapt to having moto & pedal different.
Depending on which bicycle you get, switching a hydraulic system to the opposite side is some work, and hosing could add further issues.
Personally, I've had no issues using front right moto and front left bicycle braking and adapting easily to either.
A couple things though on becoming a moto rider (on road).
I'm surprised how many moto riders never practice braking. A very important skill, maybe more than any other. When you need to actually use full braking, it's often a surprise, and need the highest skill level to maximze. DO practice braking sessions as you start riding moto, in a large open space, like a clear parking lot. Practice smoothness and also how to quickly get to max braking WITHOUT losing traction - to the point where you can even do 'stoppies'.
Things happen very quickly on a moto, and often your safety and health lie in the balance of how quickly and skillfully you react.
Always ride within your sight envelope, never assume, things change in an instant.
DO adher to ATGATT !!! It's prolly the primary reason why I'm here at this moment, able to post at this moment - buy the best Moto Kit you can, it can make the critical difference when things go south... and they do go south, in an instant.
Ride On
Yuri
Depending on which bicycle you get, switching a hydraulic system to the opposite side is some work, and hosing could add further issues.
Personally, I've had no issues using front right moto and front left bicycle braking and adapting easily to either.
A couple things though on becoming a moto rider (on road).
I'm surprised how many moto riders never practice braking. A very important skill, maybe more than any other. When you need to actually use full braking, it's often a surprise, and need the highest skill level to maximze. DO practice braking sessions as you start riding moto, in a large open space, like a clear parking lot. Practice smoothness and also how to quickly get to max braking WITHOUT losing traction - to the point where you can even do 'stoppies'.
Things happen very quickly on a moto, and often your safety and health lie in the balance of how quickly and skillfully you react.
Always ride within your sight envelope, never assume, things change in an instant.
DO adher to ATGATT !!! It's prolly the primary reason why I'm here at this moment, able to post at this moment - buy the best Moto Kit you can, it can make the critical difference when things go south... and they do go south, in an instant.
Ride On
Yuri
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#44
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I ride both. I've always wondered why it is that I've never confused front and rear brakes on either machine. For me, switching the levers is a solution in search of a problem. I also understand that others may not have the same experience as me.
#45
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I've been riding bicycles and Moto for over 55 years it's not a big deal. I've thought about changing my mtb bicycle around to match my moto's but it's not really that big of a deal, really even when I ride my mtb. if I were younger and rode more aggressive mtb I might do it but I just do xc mtb so it's no big deal.
#46
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I rode motorcycles when I was younger, never considered switching the brakes on my bicycles.
When I was in grad school in the 70's I had a Saab 96 with four speeds on the column. One day I was sent into Boston in a University car which had three speeds on the column. At the first traffic light I nearly backed into the car behind me!
When I was in grad school in the 70's I had a Saab 96 with four speeds on the column. One day I was sent into Boston in a University car which had three speeds on the column. At the first traffic light I nearly backed into the car behind me!
#47
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I sold my Harley and Triumph motorcycles after my hip replacements and got a Suzuki Burgman - an overgrown scooter. It has no clutch, so the left hand lever is for the front brake, not for a clutch. It took me awhile to get used to not having to shift at all.
My bicycle brakes are all LF, RR.
My bicycle brakes are all LF, RR.
#48
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Assuming the motorcycle has the hand clutch on the left and the rear brake on the foot, I never had one bit of issue going between that and a bike with the front brake on the left. Its been years since I rode a motorcycle, though.
The two are just such different animals. For me
there was no ”adaptation” going from one to the other, any more than adapting from a foot accelerator on a car to a twist throttle on a motorcycle.
I think you are far more likely to F yourself up switching your bike brakes around, because now anytime you ride any other bike the brake will be backwards. And THAT is something that is sketchy.
The two are just such different animals. For me
there was no ”adaptation” going from one to the other, any more than adapting from a foot accelerator on a car to a twist throttle on a motorcycle.
I think you are far more likely to F yourself up switching your bike brakes around, because now anytime you ride any other bike the brake will be backwards. And THAT is something that is sketchy.
#49
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All my bikes set up with front brake on the right. Just like my old motorcycles.
Having your rear brake on the left is especially useful when using down tube friction shifters.
Wonder what the e-bikers think?
Oh... That's right, those a motorcycles already...
Having your rear brake on the left is especially useful when using down tube friction shifters.
Wonder what the e-bikers think?
Oh... That's right, those a motorcycles already...
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No matter where you're at... There you are... Δf:=f(1/2)-f(-1/2)
No matter where you're at... There you are... Δf:=f(1/2)-f(-1/2)
#50
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In the UK having the front brake on the right is the standard. I once bought a bike that was set up with the front brake on the left so I thought I'd give it a go. All was ok until I had to do an emergency stop, whereupon I found I was locking up the back wheel. My brain was clearly conditioned to apply slightly more pressure to the right-hand lever. In my case, of course, I had no particular reason to persevere so I got them swapped over.