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Does A Base Layer Keep A Rider Cooler in Hot Weather

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Does A Base Layer Keep A Rider Cooler in Hot Weather

Old 07-30-20, 12:40 PM
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I actually hit on the dumping thing after going out one hot day for a ride a bit longer than I should have done, and found myself about 3 miles from home, lightheaded and vaguely nauseated, feeling like I was unable to cool off, even though I pulled off to the side of the road. I was running sweat in rivers. A nice young woman stopped and offered me some water. I said, "Yes, please! Could you dump it on my head and back?"

She thought I was crazy, but it worked like a charm! If I hadn't already made The Call Of Shame, I would have been able to make it home without The Ride Of Shame.

I later realized this was mile heat exhaustion, which I find I'm prone to on the first warm ride most years, but then not again the rest of the season. Weird.
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Old 07-30-20, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by MinnMan
No, sorry, that's not right. The sweat and your body are at the same temperature, so moving it away does not cool you. The sweat, sitting on your skin, is not transferring heat to your body, so removing it has no effect.
Yes, but I think that you are concentrating on the theoretical and ignoring other factors by assuming too simple a situation. If you have a base layer soaking up sweat and no where for the heat to go because evaporation is not occurring at any useful rate, then you will be holding more heat close to your body as the outer layer that is getting some cooling effect will be unable to transfer enough of that heat from the base layer.

But it seems that in most cases the net effect will be that I will be hotter or I will feel hotter, since my skin and it's nerve endings will have more mass between me and where the cooling takes place.

Some are forgetting the evaporation takes place on the outer surface and the cooling effect will be further away from our body. So that will keep warmer mass near your body and the cooling may not be felt at all if overwhelmed by excessive sweating.

I'm sure there is an ideal rate at which you can sweat through a base layer into an other layer and it actually be comfortable. But that will likely be too narrow a range for the wide range of how I sweat.
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Old 07-30-20, 01:12 PM
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I've ridden the same passes in the same temperature range with and without a base layer, and NO, a base layer does NOT keep me cooler. What it does, is dehydrate me at a much higher rate. Base layer advocacy for hot weather makes no sense. The base layer is an insulator, just like it is in cool weather. There's no difference. The fact that I dehydrate faster doesn't mean that I get a greater cooling effect. Were that true, no one would wear one in cool weather. The outside of my jersey will probably be cooler than if the jersey were touching my body, but it's not touching. Instead, it's separated by an insulating layer. And of course water evaporates more slowly from a cooler surface. What happens in that both my base layer and jersey become totally soaked to where I could wring water out of them. My skin tight jersey alone feels dry when I take it off at the end of a ride. That's how fast a good technical fabric touching both skin and atmosphere can transfer and evaporate water. Light color makes a big difference, too. I prefer a light yellow. Dark colors are just nuts. Put your hand on a black car and a white car.
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Old 07-30-20, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01
Yes, but I think that you are concentrating on the theoretical and ignoring other factors by assuming too simple a situation. If you have a base layer soaking up sweat and no where for the heat to go because evaporation is not occurring at any useful rate, then you will be holding more heat close to your body as the outer layer that is getting some cooling effect will be unable to transfer enough of that heat from the base layer.

But it seems that in most cases the net effect will be that I will be hotter or I will feel hotter, since my skin and it's nerve endings will have more mass between me and where the cooling takes place.

Some are forgetting the evaporation takes place on the outer surface and the cooling effect will be further away from our body. So that will keep warmer mass near your body and the cooling may not be felt at all if overwhelmed by excessive sweating.

I'm sure there is an ideal rate at which you can sweat through a base layer into an other layer and it actually be comfortable. But that will likely be too narrow a range for the wide range of how I sweat.
No, sorry, you are on the wrong track.

Apart from the enthalpy of sweat evaporation, the heat you lose through a base layer or from your skin is radiative loss, or advective loss associated with exchange of air. It has nothing to do with the advective loss of sweat.

You are trying to use what you think of as common sense, but you don't have a background in heat transfer.

Last edited by MinnMan; 07-30-20 at 01:32 PM. Reason: Added "Apart from .....,"
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Old 07-30-20, 01:24 PM
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My wife an I do a lot of hiking and backpacking too. We never wear a base layer when it's above about 55°. We are usually the lightest dressed people we see on the trail. Maybe we work harder, I don't know.

Biking in the PNW, when I go out at say 55° on a nice day, I'll wear jersey and wind vest. The vest is easy to remove and stuff in a pocket. I always wear sun sleeves now, sometimes under arm warmers when it's cool. I don't think white sleeves are any hotter than brown skin, even climbing. The underlayer advocates would have me believe I'd be cooler if I wore 2 pair of sun sleeves. I don't think so . . . gotcha by reductio.
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Old 07-30-20, 01:26 PM
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The way I understand it, summer base layers can be effective, but only when used in conjunction with tubeless tires and disc brakes. Personally, I never use a base layer when my tire width exceeds 32 mm, or if I'm riding a 1x setup. YMMV.
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Old 07-30-20, 01:45 PM
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Recently I have been using sunsleeves on longer mid-day rides to protect my forearms from too much UV. They may in fact be cooler than bare skin. During the first few minutes, when they are still dry, they feel a little warm, but once I sweat through them, they are quite cooling. There are several effects. First, as they are white, they have a higher albedo than my dark arms, so I absorb less heat from incoming sunlight. Second, once they are saturated, the evaporation of sweat through the sleeve is no different from off my arm, so I get the cooling effect. And less sweat drips off, so there is a greater amount of net evaporation close to my skin. Third, as they are porous, I feel the advective cooling of oncoming air nearly the same as I would on my bare arm.

I don't see how that translates to advantages when it comes to a base layer under a jersey. No albedo effect (but yeah, wearing a light colored jersey is not a bad idea), and adding a small amount of wind protection, meaning less cool air reaching the skin (assuming air temperature is less than homeostatic). I suppose that if the base layer is tight to your body and holds the sweat against your skin, then the evaporative effect is more efficient as compared to a looser jersey. But if you wear your jersey snug, then I can't see what the advantage would be.
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Old 07-30-20, 02:00 PM
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I have a family history with several types of cancer in it, skin being one of them. This summer I have started wearing a very thin, form fitting 100% merino base layer with a quarter zip and the only time it feels hotter than bare skin is when I'm doing slow ascents in direct sun or stopped in direct sun. If I'm moving, even 10 MPH, I'm not feeling any hotter. The SPF is my main consideration.
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Old 07-30-20, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by bargo68
I have a family history with several types of cancer in it, skin being one of them. This summer I have started wearing a very thin, form fitting 100% merino base layer with a quarter zip and the only time it feels hotter than bare skin is when I'm doing slow ascents in direct sun or stopped in direct sun. If I'm moving, even 10 MPH, I'm not feeling any hotter. The SPF is my main consideration.
Speaking strictly about UV protection, does the base layer make an improvement for those parts of your body that would normally be covered by your jersey? Just wearing normal kit, my arms and legs get dark dark dark, while my torso stays sickly white, so UV protection other than my jersey doesn't seem indicated.

But I have mediterranean genes and my skin is not so sun-averse. People with different skin have different sensitivities.
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Old 07-30-20, 02:22 PM
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1. I submit that the only way a base layer can keep you cooler is by facilitating evaporation.
2. I further submit that only way to do that is
a. to increase the surface area over which evaporation can take place, i.e., by more efficiently diffusing moisture over the surface, or
b. by facilitating transport of moisture from the skin to the surface.

With a $90 jersey made out of modern material, does an under-layer do either of those things to any significant degree?

I don't buy the "wet rag cools you off" theory, since without evaporation that's a wet rag at skin temp, which can't cool you.

That said, on long rides I do wear a base layer to protect my chest from zipper chafe. It's a thing.
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Old 07-30-20, 02:23 PM
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There are different types of baselayers. I use a thicker merino wool baselayer in winter and super light mesh type baselayers in summer.
I subscribe to the theory that baselayers will keep you cooler, even in hot, triple degree temps, which I frequently ride in.
The only time I have doubts, is when pedaling in super hot temps, in the tropics.
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Old 07-30-20, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by MinnMan
Speaking strictly about UV protection, does the base layer make an improvement for those parts of your body that would normally be covered by your jersey? Just wearing normal kit, my arms and legs get dark dark dark, while my torso stays sickly white, so UV protection other than my jersey doesn't seem indicated.

But I have mediterranean genes and my skin is not so sun-averse. People with different skin have different sensitivities.
No improvement because except for padded liners under cutoff jeans, I don't wear cycling kit. I wear strictly merino wool up top, either a T or long sleeve base layer, so no real difference. The difference was my arms, which were getting absolutely roasted, even with 50 SPF sport lotion. I think on my longer rides I was sweating it off and never took any along to reapply. I've considered getting some short sleeve jerseys and sun sleeves. Aside from the fact they don't have pockets, the wool base layers have been very effective. BTW, I'm pretty much Scots/Irish heritage with everything that implies, complexion-wise.
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Old 07-30-20, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
I've ridden the same passes in the same temperature range with and without a base layer, and NO, a base layer does NOT keep me cooler. What it does, is dehydrate me at a much higher rate. Base layer advocacy for hot weather makes no sense. The base layer is an insulator, just like it is in cool weather. There's no difference. The fact that I dehydrate faster doesn't mean that I get a greater cooling effect. Were that true, no one would wear one in cool weather. The outside of my jersey will probably be cooler than if the jersey were touching my body, but it's not touching. Instead, it's separated by an insulating layer. And of course water evaporates more slowly from a cooler surface. What happens in that both my base layer and jersey become totally soaked to where I could wring water out of them. My skin tight jersey alone feels dry when I take it off at the end of a ride. That's how fast a good technical fabric touching both skin and atmosphere can transfer and evaporate water. Light color makes a big difference, too. I prefer a light yellow. Dark colors are just nuts. Put your hand on a black car and a white car.
​​​​​​Most people wear heavy (250 - 400 gsm) base layers in the winter, medium ones in the shoulder seasons, and light (silk weight) ones in summer. My summer ones are 75 gsm. So no it's not the same. In cold weather you use clothes to trap air near your skin to retain heat, in hot weather you use clothes to distribute your sweat over a wider area and to block the sun.

Gsm = grams per square meter.
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Old 07-30-20, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by MinnMan
Speaking strictly about UV protection, does the base layer make an improvement for those parts of your body that would normally be covered by your jersey? Just wearing normal kit, my arms and legs get dark dark dark, while my torso stays sickly white, so UV protection other than my jersey doesn't seem indicated.

But I have mediterranean genes and my skin is not so sun-averse. People with different skin have different sensitivities.
​​​​​​A lot of mesh jerseys don't block much sun and are meant to be worn with sunscreen. But (at least for me) the point is more that it covers my sleeves better than detachable ones, and early in the year when my skin is more sensitive to sunlight, I wear one with a zipper and a tall collar for UPF there too. I only do that when I've had too much sun recently. If it's bad I wear my sun hoody.
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Old 07-30-20, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha
1. I submit that the only way a base layer can keep you cooler is by facilitating evaporation.
2. I further submit that only way to do that is
a. to increase the surface area over which evaporation can take place, i.e., by more efficiently diffusing moisture over the surface, or
b. by facilitating transport of moisture from the skin to the surface.


With a $90 jersey made out of modern material, does an under-layer do either of those things to any significant degree?

I don't buy the "wet rag cools you off" theory, since without evaporation that's a wet rag at skin temp, which can't cool you.

That said, on long rides I do wear a base layer to protect my chest from zipper chafe. It's a thing.
Definitely yes to (a). I'm not sure (b) is a real thing. The sweat needs to be present at a free surface (that is to say, against air) and it's the total mass of sweat evaporation/time, which would be the same for water on a perfectly smooth skin surface or an idealized perfectly smooth cloth surface. The greater surface area of a real cloth surface (which is your point (a)), could be important.

Also the base layer may inhibit advective loss of sweat (dripping), meaning greater net evaporation near your skin.
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Old 07-30-20, 03:53 PM
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A good "second skin" jersey with a fine weave (like the Castelli Aero Race 6.0) feels cold to the touch when sweating in our low humidity heat, typically 30-40% RH. More of the same in a base layer doesn't help and only adds an insulating layer between the cold jersey and my skin.
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Old 07-30-20, 04:20 PM
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I think a good bass player definitely makes things cooler. Especially a stand-up bass.
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Old 07-30-20, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest
​​​​​​Most people wear heavy (250 - 400 gsm) base layers in the winter, medium ones in the shoulder seasons, and light (silk weight) ones in summer. My summer ones are 75 gsm. So no it's not the same. In cold weather you use clothes to trap air near your skin to retain heat, in hot weather you use clothes to distribute your sweat over a wider area and to block the sun.

Gsm = grams per square meter.
Which means, absolutely, that it is less bad. IME anything that keeps one's jersey off one's skin is bad, which would include air, i.e. loose fitting jersey. That said, I do open my jersey a few inches at the top, naked skin being even better than a jersey, though then I have to sunscreen it. I wouldn't wear a mesh-back jersey. Funny thing is that those highest tech fabrics, which I don't own, say don't let sunscreen touch them. IMO that decreases their usefulness to 1-hour rides, in which case the fabric doesn't make much sense to me.
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Old 07-30-20, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
I think a good bass player definitely makes things cooler. Especially a stand-up bass.
You Sir, have won the Post of the Day.

Billiant!
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Old 07-30-20, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by noodle soup
You Sir, have won the Post of the Day.

Billiant!
I'd like to thank the Academy.....
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Old 07-30-20, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by MinnMan
No, sorry, you are on the wrong track.

Apart from the enthalpy of sweat evaporation, the heat you lose through a base layer or from your skin is radiative loss, or advective loss associated with exchange of air. It has nothing to do with the advective loss of sweat.

You are trying to use what you think of as common sense, but you don't have a background in heat transfer.
I'm trying to say that wearing a base layer and an outer layer is just going to be absolutely too hot for me to ride in temps over 90°F and maintaining a high effort.

As I said earlier, above 70°F, I don't want two layers on my body. A sweat soaked layer will keep me hotter in conditions where evaporation can't happen fast in my 80% humidity. So not having something holding sweat in between me and the little bit of cooling going on will be more efficient.

So if you want to, please explain that in the proper physics terms.
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Old 07-30-20, 06:32 PM
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I'm in the no base layer camp. In fact some years ago I switched from cotton tees to light weight wool as being continuously sopping wet is not comfortable in my opinion. A material that dries much more quickly feels much more comfortable to me. The air flowing past me through the light dampness of the shirts I wear now is very adequate for me. My hair holds plenty of moisture for my head where I believe the real business of cooling takes place.
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Old 07-30-20, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01
I'm trying to say that wearing a base layer and an outer layer is just going to be absolutely too hot for me to ride in temps over 90°F and maintaining a high effort.

As I said earlier, above 70°F, I don't want two layers on my body. A sweat soaked layer will keep me hotter in conditions where evaporation can't happen fast in my 80% humidity. So not having something holding sweat in between me and the little bit of cooling going on will be more efficient.

So if you want to, please explain that in the proper physics terms.
If you read my other posts in this thread, I'm not at all convinced that a base layer is cooler. But whatever you are going to do, it is counter-productive to wick away drops of sweat rather than allowing them to evaporate against your skin or in a soaked layer that is against your skin.

BTW, even in 80% humidity, evaporation of sweat is your friend. Right next to the sweat droplet, the relative humidity is 100%, so interaction between moist (80% humid) air, sweat, and your skin will result in evaporation and therefore cooling. But in this case, high airflow is important because the amount of water vapor that can be evaporated into each air parcel is limited.
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Old 07-30-20, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by noodle soup
Yes it does
If it works for you, awesome.

However, nobody - and i mean NOBODY - that I know or have ridden with in the 5-6 countries I have lived/worked in Asia has ever ridden outdoors wearing a baselayer when the temperature is in the mid 30s or higher. I remember this discussion from a while back and had actually given it a go to see whether it was true. It was most definitely NOT. I dont care about the theory of wicking moisture or whatever - multiple layers made it much, much warmer.
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Old 07-31-20, 07:37 AM
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noodle soup
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If you live in an area where swamp-coolers work, a base-layer will help keep you cooler. If you live in a swamp, you're pretty much screwed.
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